Dick Smith looks at Fuel Costs
Coal To Liquid (CTL)
Seems China is doing the sensible thing..
"...Shenhua has stated that its first CTL plant, a direct liquefaction facility in the Ordos Basin, has an all-in cost of $60 per barrel and that it is very profitable...."
Quadrant Online - China's coal-to-liquid gambit
.
"...Shenhua has stated that its first CTL plant, a direct liquefaction facility in the Ordos Basin, has an all-in cost of $60 per barrel and that it is very profitable...."
Quadrant Online - China's coal-to-liquid gambit
.
Seems China is doing the sensible thing..
Give it 15 years when we run out of red dirt and we'll be the banana republic of SE Asia.
Edit: example, liquid fluoride thorium reactor technology. About a million advantages over conventional nuclear plants. Passive safety, doesn't require pressurised cooling, can be miniaturised (ie possibility powering aircraft). I'd rather live next to one of these than live in Latrobe Valley or next to a liquid energy storage facility (benzene = known carcinogen). Thorium 4x more abundant than Uranium. Doesn't produce stuff to make weapons, can be used to 'burn' up other waste. We have lots of Thorium and it's dirt cheap. Guess which country beginning with 'C' and rhymes with miner is developing it. Hint: Not us
Last edited by Shagpile; 31st Jul 2013 at 23:59.
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That wasn't a bad watch... And it had plenty of airplane porn in it as well! Didn't go very deep, but what can you do with such a large subject in 60 minutes of TV?
A good point that there isn't a politician in the land that would have the cojones to do something large and 'nation building' like the Snowy mountains scheme was.
A good point that there isn't a politician in the land that would have the cojones to do something large and 'nation building' like the Snowy mountains scheme was.
Isn't there some heaps big oil reserve in south Australia that could be used when we start running out of reserves that are easy to extract.
Also rumour has it that years ago someone was drilling for water in the S.A. outback when up came black gold. Well was capped, big fence built around it, & no-one is allowed near it.
DF.
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I cannot believe the arrogant stupidity shown in the program by Dick.
During the program he is shown flying his turbine powered Augusta 109 chopper, a turbine powered Cessna Caravan, His Citation (??) jet and a flying wing weight shift ultralight.
here is a guy using fuel at a rate 500 times faster than I ever will and the gist of his program is that we should all be cutting back on greenhouse emissions.
Dick you need to lead by example. flogging people until the morale improves will never work.
my friend is not technologically aware and even she complained that the program was a meaningless superficial nonsense.
a total waste of effort mate.
During the program he is shown flying his turbine powered Augusta 109 chopper, a turbine powered Cessna Caravan, His Citation (??) jet and a flying wing weight shift ultralight.
here is a guy using fuel at a rate 500 times faster than I ever will and the gist of his program is that we should all be cutting back on greenhouse emissions.
Dick you need to lead by example. flogging people until the morale improves will never work.
my friend is not technologically aware and even she complained that the program was a meaningless superficial nonsense.
a total waste of effort mate.
Couldn't agree more dubbleyew, I don't own a TV but I was house sitting last night and decieded on a night of ABC. From the news onwards it got worse, finally before Dick could even finish I used to off button and retired to bed thankful that I don't own a TV.
Total ****e Dick when you burn fuel like there is no tomorrow while talking up a shortage.
Total ****e Dick when you burn fuel like there is no tomorrow while talking up a shortage.
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W8,
I'd be inclined to disagree with you...
The way complain about it, I get the impression you think he used all those assets and fuel in an afternoon. That doco was 12 months in the making. You would really deny Dick, or anyone for that matter, the use of the fruits of his labors?
In that case, why not critisize the family he interviewed for having 4 plasma TV's and 3 spilt cycle airconditioning units?
I never got the impression that he was flogging anyone?
So someone that had no idea what the program was about, thought it was meaningless...?
It's easy to sit back and critisize, so much harder to go out there and do something yourself.
I'd be inclined to disagree with you...
The way complain about it, I get the impression you think he used all those assets and fuel in an afternoon. That doco was 12 months in the making. You would really deny Dick, or anyone for that matter, the use of the fruits of his labors?
In that case, why not critisize the family he interviewed for having 4 plasma TV's and 3 spilt cycle airconditioning units?
I never got the impression that he was flogging anyone?
So someone that had no idea what the program was about, thought it was meaningless...?
It's easy to sit back and critisize, so much harder to go out there and do something yourself.
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Rats I have no envy regarding the type or number of aircraft that Dick Smith owns. none at all.
I have no problem with him flying them either.
I suppose a parallel in recent history is the meeting with Obama where it was noticed that all the protagonists pleading that the automotive industry were on the bones of their arses and needed a financial bailout had all flown to the meeting in their private jets.
If you want to be believed then be believable.
I have no problem with him flying them either.
I suppose a parallel in recent history is the meeting with Obama where it was noticed that all the protagonists pleading that the automotive industry were on the bones of their arses and needed a financial bailout had all flown to the meeting in their private jets.
If you want to be believed then be believable.
Whether or not it was 12 months in the making, condensing it into an hour gave the distinct impression that it was more about Dick showing us his flying prowess at the controls of various fossil-fuel burning toys. The only thing missing from his collection seemed to be a hot air balloon - and wouldn't one of those be appropriate!
At least he had the grace to admit that he was one of the big users of our finite resources. For more credibility as to his personal concern for our future he could have shot the flying scenes in a solar-powered Sonex and done the ground segments on a 250cc motor bike.
At least he had the grace to admit that he was one of the big users of our finite resources. For more credibility as to his personal concern for our future he could have shot the flying scenes in a solar-powered Sonex and done the ground segments on a 250cc motor bike.
here is a guy using fuel at a rate 500 times faster than I ever will
Sadly he missed "hot rock" technology as an alternative power source.
In the program, there was no mention of the energy cost of converting sawdust to oil.
As for 4 tvs 3 A/Cs, SS Holden and Mini Cooper what a waste.
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In the program, there was no mention of the energy cost of converting sawdust to oil.
But if it's a go-er, and means cheaper AvGas, I'll go out and get my chainsaw warmed up!
Hi Rats, and you're going to power up the chainsaw with...??
I couldn't quite get the 'gist' of how sawdust contains all of those ingredients to turn it into an oil......
Have I seen 'stuff' like this before..??
"Firepower' comes to mind.....
I couldn't quite get the 'gist' of how sawdust contains all of those ingredients to turn it into an oil......
Have I seen 'stuff' like this before..??
"Firepower' comes to mind.....
Last edited by Ex FSO GRIFFO; 2nd Aug 2013 at 02:44.
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Griffo,
Don't point out the flaws in my nefarious plans!!!! If I have to use a hand saw, I will call you to help me! Anyway... Don't you have a bunch of old timber sitting down the back of a hangar somewhere? We can tear the fabric off it, take out all the metal bits up the front, and turn it into AvGas to power the Seneca!!!!!
If a tree needs to be turned into sawdust so that I may aviate, then so be it!!!
Don't point out the flaws in my nefarious plans!!!!
If I have to use a hand saw, I will call you to help me! Anyway... Don't you have a bunch of old timber sitting down the back of a hangar somewhere? We can tear the fabric off it, take out all the metal bits up the front, and turn it into AvGas to power the Seneca!!!!! If a tree needs to be turned into sawdust so that I may aviate, then so be it!!!
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I love that pseudonym.
a cardinal pprune rule is that you dont "out" anyone and since you arent banned you obviously aren't Dick Smith.
I love it.
you had me going there a while back but never again.
a cardinal pprune rule is that you dont "out" anyone and since you arent banned you obviously aren't Dick Smith.
I love it.
you had me going there a while back but never again.
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dubbleyew-eight, your post is pointless since Dick is one of only a handful using their real name ! Good on him for doing so. At a guess Dick is poking fun at himself about being the director.
I enjoyed it Dick and I learnt a lot !
I enjoyed it Dick and I learnt a lot !
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you havent convinced me.
I make no apologies for poking my finger in the ribs of this nonsense.
it is like the greens saying that we need to transition to new technologies.
what new technologies????
if australia ceased all activities that produced CO2 and produced none at all the world's CO2 would decrease by just 1%.
if we look at the sources of CO2 then we the plebs arent the significant contributors.
when BHP runs a ore train between Port Hedland and Newman and back with ore there are 3 locomotives hauling the train. each loco has 29,000 litres of diesel on board. how many trains do they run for the millions of tons of ore shipped. ...as an example.
when a road train departs Port Hedland for Broome I have seen trucks take on board $5,000 worth of diesel for the run. ...as an example.
the greatest sources of CO2 are our power stations. why not take some direct action and phase these out?
no we get hand wringing idiots running around telling us that we need to reduce the number of light globes and turn off air conditioners. for christ sake the economy NEEDS to turn over for the country to survive.
OK Dick. The helicopter, the Cessna and the Citation are lovely.
how are you going to reduce their CO2 emissions?
because that is what it is really all about.
reducing the big emitters achieves the greatest effect.
I only use 400 litres of avgas a year usually. I can live with my emissions.
(i havent mentioned airbus's or boeing's contributions because I'm an aviation enthusiast)
I make no apologies for poking my finger in the ribs of this nonsense.
it is like the greens saying that we need to transition to new technologies.
what new technologies????
if australia ceased all activities that produced CO2 and produced none at all the world's CO2 would decrease by just 1%.
if we look at the sources of CO2 then we the plebs arent the significant contributors.
when BHP runs a ore train between Port Hedland and Newman and back with ore there are 3 locomotives hauling the train. each loco has 29,000 litres of diesel on board. how many trains do they run for the millions of tons of ore shipped. ...as an example.
when a road train departs Port Hedland for Broome I have seen trucks take on board $5,000 worth of diesel for the run. ...as an example.
the greatest sources of CO2 are our power stations. why not take some direct action and phase these out?
no we get hand wringing idiots running around telling us that we need to reduce the number of light globes and turn off air conditioners. for christ sake the economy NEEDS to turn over for the country to survive.
OK Dick. The helicopter, the Cessna and the Citation are lovely.
how are you going to reduce their CO2 emissions?
because that is what it is really all about.
reducing the big emitters achieves the greatest effect.
I only use 400 litres of avgas a year usually. I can live with my emissions.
(i havent mentioned airbus's or boeing's contributions because I'm an aviation enthusiast)
Last edited by dubbleyew eight; 3rd Aug 2013 at 09:17.
The good thing about the program was that it didn't blame anybody for anything. And he openly admitted to being one of the biggest fossil fuel users in the country. In fact I'm openly jealous - I'd be doing exactly the kind of thing Dick is doing if I had a jillion dollars! Hats off.
The program was about the future strategic direction of Australia's energy usage, as a whole. I thought it touched on everything important.
The only thing I wasn't sure about was when the solar/salt reactor guys said they could do the entire country, baseload included, for $8 per person per day. i.e. $3k per year. Unsure if that meant per household, or $6k. Dick said he didn't really believe it and moved on. I would have liked to hear a little more about why.
There's also a good article at phys.org about the Hydrogen/Solar economy which wasn't touched on. Probably because it's longer term & Dick was focusing on short/medium term:
How a Solar-Hydrogen Economy Could Supply the World's Energy Needs
Essentially, out of renewable energy forms, Solar is the *only* that has enough energy, forever, to sustain the world. It is inevitable to switch to using the sun's energy to power the world. And using hydrogen as the liquid energy storage mechanism, made from electrolysis of water.
The program was about the future strategic direction of Australia's energy usage, as a whole. I thought it touched on everything important.
The only thing I wasn't sure about was when the solar/salt reactor guys said they could do the entire country, baseload included, for $8 per person per day. i.e. $3k per year. Unsure if that meant per household, or $6k. Dick said he didn't really believe it and moved on. I would have liked to hear a little more about why.
There's also a good article at phys.org about the Hydrogen/Solar economy which wasn't touched on. Probably because it's longer term & Dick was focusing on short/medium term:
How a Solar-Hydrogen Economy Could Supply the World's Energy Needs
Essentially, out of renewable energy forms, Solar is the *only* that has enough energy, forever, to sustain the world. It is inevitable to switch to using the sun's energy to power the world. And using hydrogen as the liquid energy storage mechanism, made from electrolysis of water.
Dubble, I wonder if you actually saw the doco.
I made it very clear that the worlds economic system depends on perpetual growth from the ever increasing burning of cheap fossil fuels.
I said it will only be a catastrophy that will stop us from doing this. This catastrophy may happen even though I hope it won't for my grandchidrens sake.
In the meantime high density energy such as oil will become more expensive as the extraction costs increase.
I also explained that the problem with renewables is that they are intermittent and so far storage costs are prohibitively expensive.
Just commonsense.
I made it very clear that the worlds economic system depends on perpetual growth from the ever increasing burning of cheap fossil fuels.
I said it will only be a catastrophy that will stop us from doing this. This catastrophy may happen even though I hope it won't for my grandchidrens sake.
In the meantime high density energy such as oil will become more expensive as the extraction costs increase.
I also explained that the problem with renewables is that they are intermittent and so far storage costs are prohibitively expensive.
Just commonsense.
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Crock
Wasn't really interested in this thread because I have heard it all before but I just cant resist smashing some myths.
1. CO2 Feeds plants it is not a poison. The temperature of the earth is governed by the sun, you know that massive nuclear reactor that has been around for billions of years. The carbon tax is simply a money churn and has has nothing to do with the environment. Its just another fiat currency.
2. The world is not running out of oil. There is lots of oil we just need to develop more efficient ways of recovering it. Oil is not produced by rotting plant matter, if it was we would already have run out. Oil comes from hydrocarbon gases that are being created from heat and pressure off the magma and then form condensates that start as LPG etc then form liquids (oil) and finally condense and solidify to form coal. Google adiabatic theory of oil.
3. We are paying too much for energy because a very small group of greedy sociopathic plutocrats control the worlds energy and are actively preventing by force of arms the competitive sale of oil. They are also distorting the development of new technologies that will give energy independence and freedom to the individual. The Chinese recognise this and eventually the clash of empires will lead to the next world conflict.
4. The planet has seen far far worse than us, think asteroids earthquakes and the first atmospheres as the planet formed. If the planet tires of us it will eliminate us as simple surface irritant much like fleas.
5. The real argument is this, is our current level of population matched to our technological ability to provide for it. We either provide or fall behind and conflict will reduce the population. The only answer is to advance our technology or we revert to stone age lifestyles and cull population.
6. We are circling the drain and thus far no one seems to have the courage to eliminate the current junta, perhaps the Chinese might do it for us. Our mediocrity and the decline of Western society seems unstoppable, read Spengler The Decline of the West.
1. CO2 Feeds plants it is not a poison. The temperature of the earth is governed by the sun, you know that massive nuclear reactor that has been around for billions of years. The carbon tax is simply a money churn and has has nothing to do with the environment. Its just another fiat currency.
2. The world is not running out of oil. There is lots of oil we just need to develop more efficient ways of recovering it. Oil is not produced by rotting plant matter, if it was we would already have run out. Oil comes from hydrocarbon gases that are being created from heat and pressure off the magma and then form condensates that start as LPG etc then form liquids (oil) and finally condense and solidify to form coal. Google adiabatic theory of oil.
3. We are paying too much for energy because a very small group of greedy sociopathic plutocrats control the worlds energy and are actively preventing by force of arms the competitive sale of oil. They are also distorting the development of new technologies that will give energy independence and freedom to the individual. The Chinese recognise this and eventually the clash of empires will lead to the next world conflict.
4. The planet has seen far far worse than us, think asteroids earthquakes and the first atmospheres as the planet formed. If the planet tires of us it will eliminate us as simple surface irritant much like fleas.
5. The real argument is this, is our current level of population matched to our technological ability to provide for it. We either provide or fall behind and conflict will reduce the population. The only answer is to advance our technology or we revert to stone age lifestyles and cull population.
6. We are circling the drain and thus far no one seems to have the courage to eliminate the current junta, perhaps the Chinese might do it for us. Our mediocrity and the decline of Western society seems unstoppable, read Spengler The Decline of the West.