BEST ANGLE vs BEST RATE of climb
Jaba,
Yes, we certainly do have a difference of opinion on many topics, but please don't think I'm specifically targeting every post you present. If I was there would be a great many more posts to my name. On the contrary, I do find your passion and research commendable and belive you to be one of the more knowledgeable types on this site, but the fact remains, we have only been flying for just over 100 years and no-one yet knows ho to do it perfectly.
Just so you don't think this post is a sunshine blast;
While I may present a differing opinion, I will always have a reason to support my view; in this case maximising height gain for the initial climb as being the "safest" option. Not convinced "optimal" engine parameters will be deviated from by this course of action, but just covering the worst case rebuttal with the damage comment. Didn't say that you said anything about damaging an engine, but you have a pretty broad definition of "greater safety margin" in there.
I asked why wouldn't you use Vy as the safest option? I would like to know which GA type flown by a "young real world pilot" is going to use Vy+35Kts as the "safest" way to climb.
Yes, we certainly do have a difference of opinion on many topics, but please don't think I'm specifically targeting every post you present. If I was there would be a great many more posts to my name. On the contrary, I do find your passion and research commendable and belive you to be one of the more knowledgeable types on this site, but the fact remains, we have only been flying for just over 100 years and no-one yet knows ho to do it perfectly.
Just so you don't think this post is a sunshine blast;
While I may present a differing opinion, I will always have a reason to support my view; in this case maximising height gain for the initial climb as being the "safest" option. Not convinced "optimal" engine parameters will be deviated from by this course of action, but just covering the worst case rebuttal with the damage comment. Didn't say that you said anything about damaging an engine, but you have a pretty broad definition of "greater safety margin" in there.
I asked why wouldn't you use Vy as the safest option? I would like to know which GA type flown by a "young real world pilot" is going to use Vy+35Kts as the "safest" way to climb.
Last edited by MakeItHappenCaptain; 29th Jun 2013 at 10:45.
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MIHC
OK maybe its the tone and the written word, but the last one is far more effective.
Vy does not give you as much inertia and as has been explained to me, and shown by in flight testing with Chuckles a far better real world transition to best glide and successfully achieving the impossible turn.
One point of course....KNOW YOUR AIRCRAFT.
With many types as you no doubt fly this is a vast and wide experience base, but it would be interesting to get your results of tooling around experimenting. Maybe you do not get the opportunity to do that as much as you might like.
While Vy is the best rate, the trade off for a few extra knots in terms of speed and thus kinetic energy (1/2MV2) is that you get much more energy for very little loss in ROC. It is all about losses. Someone has already mentioned best L/D.
If I can get JD to drop a line he will explain it far better in far fewer words. I have flown with Chuckles in a Bonanza where he demonstrated this perfectly. I can't argue the results, simple as that.
The initial climb is in my view only a few hundred feet, of me it is until the turn back is so easily achived it is easy. In my a/c that is 400', others could be 1000'. Know your aeroplane. After that Vy is not optimal at all, somewhere above best L/D is better across the board. The transition from where the nose wheel breaks ground (or TW) to the point above 1000' is a gradual progression. To think of it as Vy all the way is not realistic.
would you climb all the way to 5000 feet on the edge of the blue line in a twin? No.
I said before that there is some learning to be had from a google search, well I got sucked in and did it for the benefit of the silent majority.
Enjoy this. Pelican's Perch #85: Where Are The Eyes? -- Part 1
The pearls here are towards the end.
Part 2 is Pelican's Perch #86: Where Are the Eyes? -- Part 2
I hope everyone enjoys and learns something from these. Use critical thinking.
I am blessed I tell ya for my privileged of friends such as these.
OK maybe its the tone and the written word, but the last one is far more effective.
Vy does not give you as much inertia and as has been explained to me, and shown by in flight testing with Chuckles a far better real world transition to best glide and successfully achieving the impossible turn.
One point of course....KNOW YOUR AIRCRAFT.
With many types as you no doubt fly this is a vast and wide experience base, but it would be interesting to get your results of tooling around experimenting. Maybe you do not get the opportunity to do that as much as you might like.
While Vy is the best rate, the trade off for a few extra knots in terms of speed and thus kinetic energy (1/2MV2) is that you get much more energy for very little loss in ROC. It is all about losses. Someone has already mentioned best L/D.
If I can get JD to drop a line he will explain it far better in far fewer words. I have flown with Chuckles in a Bonanza where he demonstrated this perfectly. I can't argue the results, simple as that.
The initial climb is in my view only a few hundred feet, of me it is until the turn back is so easily achived it is easy. In my a/c that is 400', others could be 1000'. Know your aeroplane. After that Vy is not optimal at all, somewhere above best L/D is better across the board. The transition from where the nose wheel breaks ground (or TW) to the point above 1000' is a gradual progression. To think of it as Vy all the way is not realistic.
would you climb all the way to 5000 feet on the edge of the blue line in a twin? No.
I said before that there is some learning to be had from a google search, well I got sucked in and did it for the benefit of the silent majority.
Enjoy this. Pelican's Perch #85: Where Are The Eyes? -- Part 1
The pearls here are towards the end.
Part 2 is Pelican's Perch #86: Where Are the Eyes? -- Part 2
I hope everyone enjoys and learns something from these. Use critical thinking.
I am blessed I tell ya for my privileged of friends such as these.
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Jab mah man 
JD's knowledge of such things pisses all over anything anybody on this site could post. The bloke is a certified aviation legend
I've always gotten a bit tongue tied with my explanation of excess thrust verse power. RENURP's explanation was pretty good but I've never heard a plain lingo explanation that cuts the mustard on this subject. My question was a Dorothy Dixer & I'm still waiting for all the plain lingo explanations...............
JD's knowledge of such things pisses all over anything anybody on this site could post. The bloke is a certified aviation legend
I've always gotten a bit tongue tied with my explanation of excess thrust verse power. RENURP's explanation was pretty good but I've never heard a plain lingo explanation that cuts the mustard on this subject. My question was a Dorothy Dixer & I'm still waiting for all the plain lingo explanations...............
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would you climb all the way to 5000 feet on the edge of the blue line in a twin?
No.
No.
Regarding initial climb speed? This would depend on the circumstance. A departure from an aerodrome where the LSALT for the route is 5000', the answer would be to climb at Vx to 5000'.
Once terrain clearance has been made, accelerate to the desired en-route climb speed.
