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MERGED: Jetstar Pilot Cadet Program

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MERGED: Jetstar Pilot Cadet Program

Old 25th Jun 2013, 11:32
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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I can't see how Jetstar could use the cadetships to raise revenue?

The money goes to CAE/OAA/Swinburne, not Jetstar.
Even if jetstar aren't making money off them, they get a cheap source of pilots as they are able to pay them on the junior first officer salary for a couple of years (if what a poster a few pages back is correct. I still need to call the union to find out the real facts).

But the training for a jetstar first officer costs $180k+ once you factor in the type rating and accommodation costs. Then you start off on $56k as a junior first officer... Before you start having to pay the debt off...

I know if I had a business and invested $150k+, I would hope for a return much better than $56k in my first year even after repaying the loan cost.
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Old 25th Jun 2013, 11:34
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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I stand by what I posted.

The "cadetship" gives young pilots guided training and fast track into a career at Jetstar. My opinion is that this pretty much qualifies for the description of "cadetship".

The money goes to OAA and I can't see how how Jetstar are trying to take advantage of anyone.

From what I can see, the Jetstar cadetship seems to deliver pretty much what it promises.

Who I am is no big secret. If anyone wanted to know they just need to PM me.
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Old 25th Jun 2013, 11:34
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Bump............

Last edited by biggles7374; 25th Jun 2013 at 13:40.
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Old 25th Jun 2013, 11:44
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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The money goes to OAA and I can't see how how Jetstar are trying to take advantage of anyone..
Have you ever looked at the eba's of every airline in Australia and compared a jetstar a320 junior first officer salary to the salary of pilots at every every other airline that fly jet aircraft? It is absolutely peanuts for a pilot of a jet aircraft.

If jetsar paid its cadet pilots on a level 1 first officer salary and after 12 months they could be promoted to a level 2 fo (like what happens to direct entry pilots), it would be reasonable, but sticking it out on a junior first officer salary for a couple of years before being promoted to a level 1 first officer salary is just screwing over cadet pilots big time.
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Old 25th Jun 2013, 11:52
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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.The "cadetship" gives young pilots guided training and fast track into a career at Jetstar. My opinion is that this pretty much qualifies for the description of "cadetship".
If you look at cadetships they offer to people while they study at university, you will find that the company pays for the training... Well that's the way they do it for every cadetship I have ever heard of offered at university.

I wouldn't it be calling it a "cadetship", you are pretty much "buying a job".
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Old 25th Jun 2013, 13:09
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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I stand by what I posted.
Then you are being obtuse.
The "cadetship" gives young pilots guided training and fast track into a career at Jetstar. My opinion is that this pretty much qualifies for the description of "cadetship".
Only by the new, convenient interpretation of the word, apparently unique to the Brave New World of aviation in the 21st century.

Weasel words such as "guided training" and "fast track" only attempt to camouflage the program from what it really is: a means of placing the cheapest, least experienced pilots the law will allow as second-in-command of an airline jet. And doing so with no investment, financial or otherwise, in the welfare of that pilot. Instead, he or she is hit with an over-the-odds upfront cost, no guarantee of a job, and a substandard salary if that job does eventuate.

The money goes to OAA and I can't see how how Jetstar are trying to take advantage of anyone.

From what I can see, the Jetstar cadetship seems to deliver pretty much what it promises.
In that case I can only conclude that what you can see is deliberately obscured. That or, even less defensible, you are attempting to mislead. Whom, I don't know. But no-one here is buying it.
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Old 25th Jun 2013, 13:10
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Virgin and in the past Qantas have also offered "cadetships". Very similar to the Jetstar Cadetship.

From memory, there were 1,000 applications for each Jetstar cadetship. Whatever you say they will continue to be popular.
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Old 25th Jun 2013, 13:39
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Virgin and in the past Qantas have also offered "cadetships". Very similar to the Jetstar Cadetship.
And you continue to evade my original point, which was that the scheme is misrepresented by all its proponents, simply by giving it a misleading title.

From memory, there were 1,000 applications for each Jetstar cadetship. Whatever you say they will continue to be popular
You seem to be well-informed as to the numbers, and highly defensive of the worth of the concept.

One might even say, unusually so, given your rather tenuous connection to it, as merely the father of someone not even in the JQ/OAA program, but at RMIT instead.
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Old 25th Jun 2013, 13:44
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Originally Posted by peterc005
I've met a dozen current and former Jetstar cadets.

None suggested that anything significant was misrepresented.

Any gripes they had are probably due to minor mismanagement, rather than misrepresentation.

My recollection was that 16 started the OAA course last year, and that 15 completed the training, and are now soon to start their A320 TR to fly for Jetstar.

Sounds like this is what they signed up for and pretty much what they got.

Well if you knew as much about the scheme as you suggest you would know that the a320 endorsement is part of the course. At this stage there is no whiff of a job.

The employment offer comes later. You hope!!!

Regards how Jetstar make money. The devil is in the detail. The 85k (increased at Jetstar's discretion) for the advanced course is what the cadets owe Jetstar as the bond agreement is between Jetstar and the cadet. It just so happens that the figure that Jetstar pay Oxford to supply the advanced course including A320 endo is not 85k, it is much less!!!

More to follow

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Old 25th Jun 2013, 13:54
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.Virgin and in the past Qantas have also offered "cadetships". Very similar to the Jetstar Cadetship.
Virgin pays for your training, they pay you while you train, they pay for your accommodation.

Qantas cadetship you eventually become a second officer and earn the same income as the direct entry pilots (the way the jetstar cadetship should be). Sure, you have to pay for the cadetship like the jetstar cadetship, but at least qantas pay cadets at the same rates as direct entry pilots.

Jetstar does neither, you pay for your training, and start off on a junior first officer salary which is $30k less than a level 1 direct entry first officer (and that's before paying off the huge $150k+ training debt). It's not fair on the cadets at all.
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Old 26th Jun 2013, 01:16
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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'Quote of the Year' on another thread:

'It's no longer a case of, "if you pay peanuts you get monkeys"; now the monkeys bring their own peanuts'.

Last edited by Captain Dart; 26th Jun 2013 at 01:54.
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Old 26th Jun 2013, 06:40
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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I still find peterc005's posts intriguing, especially regarding RMIT a little while ago, such as promoting that to possible instructors....

http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...-training.html
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Old 26th Jun 2013, 12:03
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Kelly I was thinking of the "Indian Indentureship"

Check it out here.

What is Indian Indenture Ship

I think the "cadetships" have a few similarities.

Last edited by 27/09; 26th Jun 2013 at 12:04.
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Old 27th Jun 2013, 02:25
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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I can see the resemblance.
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Old 27th Jun 2013, 04:35
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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No company loan repayments until 3rd year.

Salary is base 58/60 first two years,then onto regular contract base at least 90K.

Add twenty % to base at least, third fourth years well over $100K - bye bye training debt

Don't believe call S Lutton at AFAP on 03 9928 5737,

The angst is the reality that right now there is very very little employment of Jet RPT FOs in Aust , almost certain to stay that way for long time.

Each cadet takes away one direct entry place.

Where do ADF pilots leaving services go ? Cobhams , FIFO - that would all be a pay drop wouldn't it. Any go direct to Middle East ?
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Old 27th Jun 2013, 05:16
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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I have asked this before with zero response from those spruiking the benefits if this "cadetship".

In order to be employed by Jetstar as anything other than a junior FO and therefore eligible to earn these $100k+ salaries, the pilot must hold an ATPL. The pilot must hold a minimum of 250 hours PIC or 500 ICUS, therefore, the cadet must be provided at least 500 hours ICUS in order to gain an ATPL. Is Jetstar doing this?
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Old 27th Jun 2013, 06:41
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Not true : you move to the standard FO tables after you achieve an ATPL or two years whichever comes first.

So the maximum amount of time as a Junior FO is two years, and then you move to standard FO salary - CPL or ATPL. Again don't take my word for it call Simon Lutton from your own federation.

The "no command time" - career FO you will remain view on these cadetships is just a red herring. Qantas upgraded cadets , gave them command time , Jetstar has all those approvals - let's face they are Qantas. Rex is upgrading cadets, as has Qlink who still has Q cadets & people from their own traineeship.

So the "not enough command time" line is cute, but does not reflect reality.

The issue people have is one more cadet is one less direct entry place
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Old 27th Jun 2013, 07:05
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The issue people have is one more cadet is one less direct entry place
Correct. Can someone remind me why there is a need for cadets?
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Old 27th Jun 2013, 07:07
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you move to the standard FO tables after you achieve an ATPL or two years whichever comes first.
Ok, where is that written? Can't see any reference in thier EBA. Although the one I found was 2008 and it may have been superseded. Please don't quote any flying school brochures because if it ain't in the employment contract then it isn't worth the glossy paper it's printed on.

This is purely a pay for a front seat scheme, not a cadetship. We are a few years behind the UK with these schemes but they are inevitable.

Each cadet takes away one direct entry place.
Not sure why you guys keep gloating about this?

Last edited by travelator; 27th Jun 2013 at 07:18.
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Old 27th Jun 2013, 08:34
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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Where do ADF pilots leaving services go ?
Good question!

Anyone know?
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