Permission for farm strip

[QDMQDMQDM]

Hi all,

What are the regs for operating an aircraft off your own land in NSW? Do you need to get permission? In the UK, we have the 28 day rule where you can operate off your own land for 28 days without needing permission and, of course, mostly no-one is counting.

Is it similar in Australia? I'm looking at the Coffs Harbour / Bellingen area and I have a Cub.

Thanks in advance,

David

[Old Akro]

The law and what the councils try and regulate are 2 different things. The same legal tenant that gives you the right to park your car on your property theoretically applies to landing / hangaring an aircraft. The trouble is that (as I understand it) its never been tested in a court. In the absence of this local councils have all sorts of planning schemes and permits which they impose. They differ from council to council. If you run foul of your local area it will come down to how much you are prepared to spend in legal fees.

Call the council and check. Of course, all of this is only an issue if someone complains. How well do you get on with your neighbors?

[Sunfish]

I'm at the edge of my competence here, but I theeeeenk local councils have no power whatsover over PRIVATE operations on your own land because aviation is regulated at a Federal level and there is no state ad local government head of power applicable. Of course if you ask the local council you will get the answer "Yes, we do have power" and now that you have forwarned them of your intentions you can expect trouble.

Best thing is to do your homework and ignore council completely if the legal opinion is in your favor.

If you want to run a BUSINESS that is different and the council may well want to make restrictions which they have the power to do.

Then there is the little matter of water runoff which should be fixable. If you want a hangar, call it a "machinery shed" because you will need a building permit.

Then there are the neighbours. I'm house hunting at the moment and certain country properties are off limits because of proximity to racehorse studs - and those guys have expensive lawyers and no liking for little noisy aircraft. You are entitled I think to aviate as part of your "quiet enjoyment" of your property but it might result in civil action if someone else feels their quiet enjoyment is infringed by you.

The CASA website has a general specification for an ALA which gives recommended clearances, grades, etc.

Good luck and over to the experts........

[hiwaytohell]

I think you will find it will firstly depend on the zoning, and even then many councils require a Development Application even for Rural zoning.

For occasional private operations they will usually be most focused on environmental issues these days such as not clearing native vegetation to build your strip, water run off, noise if in proximity to neighbours, and approach paths over other people's houses or livestock etc

For agricultural & commercial operations it gets a bit more onerous.

Just a tip though check local definitions of what constitutes an airstrip. In some councils I saw a few years ago landing in a paddock was OK provided you did 7 movements a month or less. 8 movements it became an airstrip which triggered the DA.

I did a project last year that included building a private airstrip (albeit one to be used for joy flights) in a very sensitive environmentally protected area that involved the clearing of protected native vegetation. We got this approved by aligning it with an existing public access road... in effect just widening the road clearing... and by planting only native grasses and developing a management plan to ensure the strip surface had grass cover to prevent erosion and to manage weeds... and we got Rural Fire Service onside by offering to make the strip available FOC in case of bushfires. The most difficult part was the design of the septic system for the toilet in the hangar because the location was in a drinking water catchment.

It will help if you do your homework before contacting the local council and have the answers before you even talk to them.

[Flying Binghi]

...and I have a Cub

As a Cub driver you already know you dont need an 'airstrip'. Mentioning earth works to make an airstrip trigger beuqacratic bull-droppings.

Most council people are fairly decent and wont bother you unless as Old Akro pointed out yer make a spectacle of yerself.

Avoid the words "airstrip" and "hanger" ...Yer just landing in the paddock and parking in the shed..





.

[allthecoolnamesarego]

My Brother-in-law is looking at doing this (putting in a strip) for his B&B.

It would appear from the CAAP that it is allowable, because he is not using it as a business, but merely providing it for private use.

For all those Cessna/Piper drivers out there, what reasonable strip length would you feel comfortable in using?

I ask that question, merely to get a starting point to see if my BIL actually has enough land, before he/we go down the path in greater detail.

thanks

Coolnames

[Flying Binghi]

For all those Cessna/Piper drivers out there, what reasonable strip length would you feel comfortable in using?

16,000 metres..

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Construct the strip as per CAAP 92-1 (ALA guidelines), (that way there should be no civil liability issues) give permission, and Bob's your auntie.

Ps, Auntie Bob's inviting everyone to something called Mardy Grass this year?

[Aussie Bob]

Mate, if you ask the council you are most likely asking for refusal, lengthy paperwork and a non event waiting to happen. If the council can stop you parking your Cub in your paddock, they can also stop you driving your car there, riding your four-wheeler there or operating your tractor there.

There are far too many Australians already that think they need permission for everything, don't join them. Remember your UK tenant, "A mans home is his castle". Asking does nothing more than give more imagined power to bureaucrats.

For my airstrip, I simply smoothed a paddock and started using it and my aircraft needs a few more metres than the average Cub.

Go for it without asking, my feeling is you will have no regrets.

[Sunfish]

Aaa ah the Castle : tell em they're dreamin.

[Typhoon650]

As said above, why can't your "driveway" run in a straight line for 6-800m and have a "machinery shed/grain store" next to it?
Local councils should be legislated out of existence and be replaced by regional governance that applies only the laws of the state or country, not the whims of egotistical local business people.

[Aussie Bob]

Then there are the neighbours. I'm house hunting at the moment and certain country properties are off limits because of proximity to racehorse studs

Sunny sums it up here, what is most important is to consider your neighbours, plan your approach, talk to them and above all avoid noisy run ups and Sunday dawn departures if they are at all noise sensitive.

[poteroo]

The issue is whether you cause any 'loss of amenity' to your neighbours.

If you are only intending to arrive and depart at a low frequency, but irregularly, and not before 7:30am or after 6.00pm - then your neighbours have little cause. (these times are those outside of which you cannot operate noisy domestic equipment such as leaf blowers, mowers, whippersnippers,power tools etc - so an aircraft should fit within these).

Then, orient your operational direction, (probably best not to call it an airstrip), so that you give the widest possible berth to overflight of neighbours dwellings, wrt safety. Use a steep, full flap power off approach where possible, and reduce t/o power once airborne - so establishing a 'fly friendly' pattern of operations right from the start.

Obviously, you need to brief your ignorant mates to do likewise - you don't want them doing beat ups in a 210, 185, 180, an RV, or a T6! We found that the only time our 20 year neighbours made comment was when this happened - because old mate overflew all the properties nearby with great gusto! Don't hold a fly-in because there'll always be someone who forgets the briefing.

happy days,

[hiwaytohell]

From experience I would disagree with those that suggest you avoid talking to the local council.

OK if all you are going to do is slash a strip and fill some pot holes maybe...

But if your strip involves earthworks, drainage or clearing any native vegetation you might just find yourself in a whole pile of trouble and legal bills.

Rarely will you find an airstrip a prohibited activity so follow the DA process. My experience with Councils (and yes there have been some dickheads) has mostly been positive.
If what you are planning to do is permitted, follow the process!

If it is not permitted there is usually a fair reason, and you need to work around it.

[uncle8]

Whether you are planning an airstrip for your own use, only, or one for your mates and other aircraft types makes a lot of difference and, in Victoria, at least, a planning permit is not required for a private airstrip, only for a public aerodrome. A planning permit is required for any excavation works.

If you follow the guidelines in CAAP 92 you will have a strip like a public aerodrome, far in excess of what is really needed for a Piper Cub. So if your space is limited then you are able to make a strip which is suitable for your Cub but nowhere near meeting the CAAP guidelines.

I have recently been through this, constructing a strip for a similar STOL aircraft. All of my neighbours have been supportive, except one. He has had the police, CASA and the council planning department check me out. Nothing untoward was found, by any of them, but I had been careful to obtain all necessary permits (only for the hangar, there was no excavation required).

There is a previous thread on this subject Legal Question - Flying From Private Property?

[QDMQDMQDM]

Thanks everyone for these incredibly helpful comments. I've been out of Internet access for a few days, hence this late response. With a 150HP Super Cub, that by the time it is operational in Australia will have a long prop and tundra tyres on it, I'm really going to try and keep things as informal as possible. With good approaches, 200m of rough paddock is more than ample, depending on wind of course, so I'm house hunting at the moment and looking for something with a paddock like that. Then if I put up a prefab or a canvas hangar with no groundworks no-one should be much the wiser and I'm hoping I won't be surrounded by busybodies.

Thanks again -- I'm going to operate on the basis that if you don't ask no-one will tell you 'No'. Now, when I finally build that RV I would love to build for commuting in Australia it may be a different kettle of fish!

David

[cam]

Cam

So long as you do not do extensive cut and filling of the land, and it forms part of, or is incidental to your existing "Approved use" of the land it would not be an issue. But if you change the use of the land, such as operating a commercial operation you would require development approval. This is a generalisation, and some Councils may try the bluff act on. If you build a shed to house the aeroplane, you would require "Development Approval" for the shed, but if the use was spasmodic and doesn't upset the neighbours too much, should not be too much of an issue.
It would be worth having a look at the "Development Plan" for the Council in the area that you intend to move into, to check if an airfield is listed as "Non-Complying" use of the land.

[baswell]

Better to beg forgiveness than to ask for permission...

I do want a hangar at some point, but the planning application will say it's a machinery shed, as suggested above.

Noise was no problem for me; neighbours run bird scarers, heavy trucks and farm machinery past my property and harvest at all hours. A little Rotax in return isn't going to make their pots call my kettle black.

Live and let live ... except those pesky stud owners - training horses to be transported in trucks and race in front of big crowds but a little airplane noise every once in a while is a problem?

My wife's horses don't bat an eyelid when a chopper lands 20 meters away from them.

[baswell]

I have a Cub.

So basically, you are only doing what I am doing: clear some crop (or mow the lawn) , possibly put up a windsock and be done with it. Not actually constructing a runway as such.

[cam]

cam

Baswell, call it a garage and it will be classified as 10A, call it a machinery shed and it will be a Class 7 0r Class 8 structure. Far more structural requirements, and dearer building rules fee.