CASA Suspends Barrier Aviation Operations
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Nobody FORCED you to fly your MECIR test on an expired MR. You CHOSE to do that yourself by conducting the flight. If what you say is indeed correct (no reason to doubt you) that would show up in the audit (hopefully) and appropriate action would go against them and CASA would then come looking at you for answers if you were the PIC. Better find a good aviation lawyer. Ignorance left the building as an excuse once you got your GFPT.
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"If what you say is indeed correct (no reason to doubt you) that would show up in the audit (hopefully) and appropriate action would go against them and CASA would then come looking at you for answers if you were the PIC."
VH-XXX,
Why would a MECIR Test Candidate be the PIC? And in any case, in the (alleged) situation, why shoud it be the candidates responsibility to refuse to conduct the flight? Obviously, you would be wise to do so, but having forked out circa 15k, and being naive, you can understand how he/she might have gone along with it. What about the organisation? Duty of care?
A student or test candidate of any organisation should never have to be the last line of defense in ensuring the flight is conducted legally.
"Better find a good aviation lawyer. Ignorance left the building as an excuse once you got your GFPT."
Pull the other one champ.
VH-XXX,
Why would a MECIR Test Candidate be the PIC? And in any case, in the (alleged) situation, why shoud it be the candidates responsibility to refuse to conduct the flight? Obviously, you would be wise to do so, but having forked out circa 15k, and being naive, you can understand how he/she might have gone along with it. What about the organisation? Duty of care?
A student or test candidate of any organisation should never have to be the last line of defense in ensuring the flight is conducted legally.
"Better find a good aviation lawyer. Ignorance left the building as an excuse once you got your GFPT."
Pull the other one champ.
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Don't be too hard on him xxx.
By his own admission he's been pressured since then as well, poor dear.
He's a victim. It's not his fault. Somebody made him do it.
By his own admission he's been pressured since then as well, poor dear.
He's a victim. It's not his fault. Somebody made him do it.
beaver_rotate 1st Apr 2012, 22:57
Am I a liar too? I too have worked for 2 skydive operators where I was pressured to fly VFR into IMC (tropics and the big wet). Yes I did t and YES I ain't proud. The words when I burred up "if you don't do it I've got a 100 resumes of guys who will" come to mind. I guess I was selfish and young and only had my aspirations in mind...
Am I a liar too? I too have worked for 2 skydive operators where I was pressured to fly VFR into IMC (tropics and the big wet). Yes I did t and YES I ain't proud. The words when I burred up "if you don't do it I've got a 100 resumes of guys who will" come to mind. I guess I was selfish and young and only had my aspirations in mind...
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Compare to Hardy's
Interesting Hardy's lawyers were able to challenge casa in the federal court. I just wonder if casa are trying to make that as difficult as possible this time?
Of course there always is the real possibility an immediate safety risk did/does exist.
NT airline to resume flights after CASA challenge - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Of course there always is the real possibility an immediate safety risk did/does exist.
NT airline to resume flights after CASA challenge - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
There is always a Federal Court Judge "On Duty" - theoretically available Twenty Four hours a day, every day of the year. If this is indeed a bit of holiday barstardry, then I imagine the judge can have his holiday interupted long enough for an injunction/stay to be issued.
Personally, I have to give the benefit of the doubt to CASA on the assumption that only a freshly discovered serous defect in Barriers maintenance system would prompt a rational institution to act on a Sunday so close to Christmas.
If, on the other hand, the grounding is the outcome of a long running investigation and following mature consideration of a range of evidence, then it is difficult to comprehend the zeal with which this matter has been pursued into the holiday season.
To put that another way; Scrooge, charity, peace and goodwill and all that Christmas stuff.
As for Beaver Rotates comments, I thank him for making them and if they are supported by evidence, then good on CASA for the grounding.
..And to VNAV and XXX, I say both your criticisms of Beaver Rotate are unhelpful and way out of order. The "double bind" problem (damned if you do and damned if you don't) is both real and deadly in a lot of industries. Even the most skilled of us have difficulty navigating around it at the best of times and to criticise an ingenue pilot for falling foul of it is just plain stupid.
Furthermore, there will be dozens of youmg wet behind the ears pilots facing exactly the same problem as the Beaver all over the country as I write this (5.19am) today, and tomorrow and tomorrow ever after. They need support and education from the pilot community, their only "crime" is being young and inexperienced and the last thing they need is blanket criticism from a couple of envious old farts.
Merry Christmas to all.
Personally, I have to give the benefit of the doubt to CASA on the assumption that only a freshly discovered serous defect in Barriers maintenance system would prompt a rational institution to act on a Sunday so close to Christmas.
If, on the other hand, the grounding is the outcome of a long running investigation and following mature consideration of a range of evidence, then it is difficult to comprehend the zeal with which this matter has been pursued into the holiday season.
To put that another way; Scrooge, charity, peace and goodwill and all that Christmas stuff.
As for Beaver Rotates comments, I thank him for making them and if they are supported by evidence, then good on CASA for the grounding.
..And to VNAV and XXX, I say both your criticisms of Beaver Rotate are unhelpful and way out of order. The "double bind" problem (damned if you do and damned if you don't) is both real and deadly in a lot of industries. Even the most skilled of us have difficulty navigating around it at the best of times and to criticise an ingenue pilot for falling foul of it is just plain stupid.
Furthermore, there will be dozens of youmg wet behind the ears pilots facing exactly the same problem as the Beaver all over the country as I write this (5.19am) today, and tomorrow and tomorrow ever after. They need support and education from the pilot community, their only "crime" is being young and inexperienced and the last thing they need is blanket criticism from a couple of envious old farts.
Merry Christmas to all.
Last edited by Sunfish; 23rd Dec 2012 at 19:53.
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Interesting ....... is Barrier still owned and managed by an ex CASA FOI?
..................................
Cancel the question - answered in the affirmative in the following post.
..................................
Interesting ....... is Barrier still owned and managed by an ex CASA FOI?
..................................
Cancel the question - answered in the affirmative in the following post.
..................................
Last edited by Torres; 23rd Dec 2012 at 19:44.
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Cairns aviation firm grounded over 'safety risks'- Local Cairns News | cairns.com.au
Cairns aviation firm grounded over 'safety risks'
Andrée Stephens
Monday, December 24, 2012
© The Cairns Post
THE Civil Aviation Safety Authority yesterday suspended all operations by a Cairns-based charter company because of alleged serious safety risks.
The federal authority said it had evidence Barrier Aviation, which has a fleet of 34 aircraft, was operating aircraft with serious and known defects and was directing its pilots to fly with known aircraft defects.
The company is also accused of failing to record those defects on aircraft maintenance documentation when they became known.
A CASA pokesman said Barrier Aviation had been under investigation for six weeks, but more alleged maintenance problems had come to light in the "past couple of days''.
"There was an increased level of risk which was just too high," the spokesman said.
The five-day ban could stretch to another 40 days if the Federal Court agrees to extend the suspension while CASA carries out further investigations.
Managing director of Barrier Aviation, David Kilin, said the company was examining the suspension notification and would take legal advice on the matter.
"We will be challenging the allegations in the Federal Court," he said yesterday.
He said about 50 staff, including 37 pilots, would be affected by the suspension but the company had not had time to consider their options yet.
"We will also be notifying clients and helping them with alternative arrangements."
CASA acknowledged the timing of the suspension was "regrettable" for passengers and Barrier's employees, but its "primary and overriding consideration" was safety.
In its statement yesterday, CASA said:
"The Civil Aviation Safety Authority has suspended the operations of Barrier Aviation Pty Ltd with immediate effect from 23 December 2012.
"This action has been taken because CASA believes permitting Barrier Aviation to continue to fly poses a serious and imminent risk to air safety."
Barrier Aviation provides charter services, aerial work and is a flying training air operator with bases in Cairns, Darwin and Horn Island.
It also offers interstate, international flights,scenic flights over the Great Barrier Reef, and the carriage of dangerous and difficult cargo throughout PNG.
Andrée Stephens
Monday, December 24, 2012
© The Cairns Post
THE Civil Aviation Safety Authority yesterday suspended all operations by a Cairns-based charter company because of alleged serious safety risks.
The federal authority said it had evidence Barrier Aviation, which has a fleet of 34 aircraft, was operating aircraft with serious and known defects and was directing its pilots to fly with known aircraft defects.
The company is also accused of failing to record those defects on aircraft maintenance documentation when they became known.
A CASA pokesman said Barrier Aviation had been under investigation for six weeks, but more alleged maintenance problems had come to light in the "past couple of days''.
"There was an increased level of risk which was just too high," the spokesman said.
The five-day ban could stretch to another 40 days if the Federal Court agrees to extend the suspension while CASA carries out further investigations.
Managing director of Barrier Aviation, David Kilin, said the company was examining the suspension notification and would take legal advice on the matter.
"We will be challenging the allegations in the Federal Court," he said yesterday.
He said about 50 staff, including 37 pilots, would be affected by the suspension but the company had not had time to consider their options yet.
"We will also be notifying clients and helping them with alternative arrangements."
CASA acknowledged the timing of the suspension was "regrettable" for passengers and Barrier's employees, but its "primary and overriding consideration" was safety.
In its statement yesterday, CASA said:
"The Civil Aviation Safety Authority has suspended the operations of Barrier Aviation Pty Ltd with immediate effect from 23 December 2012.
"This action has been taken because CASA believes permitting Barrier Aviation to continue to fly poses a serious and imminent risk to air safety."
Barrier Aviation provides charter services, aerial work and is a flying training air operator with bases in Cairns, Darwin and Horn Island.
It also offers interstate, international flights,scenic flights over the Great Barrier Reef, and the carriage of dangerous and difficult cargo throughout PNG.
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Interesting indeed Torres.
Given that the owner IS an ex CASA FOI, as well as an independent ATO, should any of the claims as to why the AOC was suspended be factual, surely it would be grounds to remove his licence, if not just the approvals, as his demonstration of 'fit and proper person' would be compromised.
D
Given that the owner IS an ex CASA FOI, as well as an independent ATO, should any of the claims as to why the AOC was suspended be factual, surely it would be grounds to remove his licence, if not just the approvals, as his demonstration of 'fit and proper person' would be compromised.
D
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"..And to VNAV and XXX, I say both your criticisms of Beaver Rotate are unhelpful and way out of order. The "double bind" problem (damned if you do and damned if you don't) is both real and deadly in a lot of industries. Even the most skilled of us have difficulty navigating around it at the best of times and to criticise an ingenue pilot for falling foul of it is just plain stupid."
Sunfish,
I was not criticising Beaver Rotete, quiet the opposite actually. I agree with your centiments wholeheartedly. Whilst the grounding could be called "bastardising", I have absolutely no doubt it was necessary. I only wonder why it's taken this long? Oh that's right, Torres has already answered that.
Oh and Trent 972, nobody cares.
Sunfish,
I was not criticising Beaver Rotete, quiet the opposite actually. I agree with your centiments wholeheartedly. Whilst the grounding could be called "bastardising", I have absolutely no doubt it was necessary. I only wonder why it's taken this long? Oh that's right, Torres has already answered that.
Oh and Trent 972, nobody cares.
It is unlikely that they have been grounded because Captain Dustcap (whoever he is) pinged them for a few missing dust caps on tyres.
More likely there are issues outstanding from an audit that have run way past their due date for rectification, plus some other more recent findings.
By now CASA would have to be gun-shy about proceeding against an operator without hard evidence of naughtiness. On the other hand, CASA must be very nervous after a couple of recent fatal accident reports that indicate inadequate oversight on their part. Too many more of those and ICAO or the FAA could downgrade them to third world status. This would bring them down big-time.
The timing at Xmas may seem deliberate, but I doubt it. Simply a case of 'three strikes and you are out'.
More likely there are issues outstanding from an audit that have run way past their due date for rectification, plus some other more recent findings.
By now CASA would have to be gun-shy about proceeding against an operator without hard evidence of naughtiness. On the other hand, CASA must be very nervous after a couple of recent fatal accident reports that indicate inadequate oversight on their part. Too many more of those and ICAO or the FAA could downgrade them to third world status. This would bring them down big-time.
The timing at Xmas may seem deliberate, but I doubt it. Simply a case of 'three strikes and you are out'.
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beaver_rotate, I call bull****,
If you are telling the truth stand behind what you've posted, post your real name and contact details on this thread, I bet you don't.
Also, having had a look through your previous posts, I can't find you having said anything nice about anyone, why is that ?.
Two Dogs: http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-a...-grounded.html
I was forced to fly an aircraft with an out of date MR ON MY MECIR INITIAL FLIGHT TEST at Barrier as a STUDENT.
Trolls and Cairns Post... Feel free to quote me. Good riddance
Also, having had a look through your previous posts, I can't find you having said anything nice about anyone, why is that ?.
Two Dogs: http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-a...-grounded.html
Last edited by Josh Cox; 23rd Dec 2012 at 20:26.
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Mach- from a friend
Apparently any issues from the last audit were rectified in the given time frame and signed off by casa, this has seemingly magically popped up since the audit was completed
Apparently any issues from the last audit were rectified in the given time frame and signed off by casa, this has seemingly magically popped up since the audit was completed
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..And to VNAV and XXX, I say both your criticisms of Beaver Rotate are unhelpful and way out of order. The "double bind" problem (damned if you do and damned if you don't) is both real and deadly in a lot of industries. Even the most skilled of us have difficulty navigating around it at the best of times and to criticise an ingenue pilot for falling foul of it is just plain stupid.
There is no such thing as being pressured to fly on an expired MR or to fly VMC into IFR - find another job or kill someone or your career. It's a very easy choice really. I can't believe anyone would defend someone in this situation. There are plenty of other operators out there who do do the right thing.
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A few points
With regard to the timing. It is not surprising as, like a lot of organisations, CASA people try to "clear their desks" prior to the stand down because they don't want the unfinished business hanging over their heads while they are on leave.
If during that process matters come to light that don't give CASA personnel the peace of mind that they can trust the operator to operate safely then despite the impending stand down work goes on and the regulatory action is taken. I would not want to be the person in front of the coroner saying I held back because I was about to go on holidays.
Why, after audit deficiencies are "signed off" would further surveillance be done that highlights these deficiencies again? Precisely because the operator has assured CASA that the fixes are in place and that the problems won't happen again and has had a history of reverting to errant behavior. Then surveillance is done to see if the new process is in practice. If the problems are repeated the words "trust me I'll fix it" carry little weight and prompt the taking of stronger action.
Go back a few years and look at CASA's reasoning behind establishing the remote office at Horn Island. I would say that if that if the problems with this operator are proven then the decision to establish that office and maintain at least a part time presence there are vindicated.
If during that process matters come to light that don't give CASA personnel the peace of mind that they can trust the operator to operate safely then despite the impending stand down work goes on and the regulatory action is taken. I would not want to be the person in front of the coroner saying I held back because I was about to go on holidays.
Why, after audit deficiencies are "signed off" would further surveillance be done that highlights these deficiencies again? Precisely because the operator has assured CASA that the fixes are in place and that the problems won't happen again and has had a history of reverting to errant behavior. Then surveillance is done to see if the new process is in practice. If the problems are repeated the words "trust me I'll fix it" carry little weight and prompt the taking of stronger action.
Go back a few years and look at CASA's reasoning behind establishing the remote office at Horn Island. I would say that if that if the problems with this operator are proven then the decision to establish that office and maintain at least a part time presence there are vindicated.
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Furthermore, there will be dozens of youmg wet behind the ears pilots facing exactly the same problem as the Beaver
It is an accepted thing that in this industry there are times when the rules have to be bent due to unforeseen circumstances, but that is different from blatantly breaking rules "because if I dont I will be sacked", especially prior to take off.
Flying Spike has hit the nail on the head. Added comment: Having had hands-on experience both within CASA and as a Chief Pilot, I have dished it out, and copped it. The audit process goes something like this:
Deficiencies found at audit and discussed with Operator. Non Compliance Notices issued with a 'drop dead' date for rectification (dates may not all be the same for each NCN, though usually are - it depends a bit on the Lead Auditor and what latitude he is granted by the 'system' and his own perception of the risk). Rectification not always completed to CASA satisfaction within the time frame. Extension granted. Heat on Lead Auditor from CASA boss to have it acquitted. Heat from Lead Auditor on Operator. Often, in the interest of a peaceful life back at Fort Fumble, and depending on the integrity of the Lead Auditor (believe me, that varies!) a half-baked solution or promise of a solution will be accepted.
Along comes another audit, or a snap surveillance, or an incident, or an authentic complaint/report from the public or an employee. Only to find the same or similar issues. Once it is a matter of record someone has to be seen to be doing something. And round and round it goes.
Deficiencies found at audit and discussed with Operator. Non Compliance Notices issued with a 'drop dead' date for rectification (dates may not all be the same for each NCN, though usually are - it depends a bit on the Lead Auditor and what latitude he is granted by the 'system' and his own perception of the risk). Rectification not always completed to CASA satisfaction within the time frame. Extension granted. Heat on Lead Auditor from CASA boss to have it acquitted. Heat from Lead Auditor on Operator. Often, in the interest of a peaceful life back at Fort Fumble, and depending on the integrity of the Lead Auditor (believe me, that varies!) a half-baked solution or promise of a solution will be accepted.
Along comes another audit, or a snap surveillance, or an incident, or an authentic complaint/report from the public or an employee. Only to find the same or similar issues. Once it is a matter of record someone has to be seen to be doing something. And round and round it goes.
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All very interesting. Barrier, Hardys, Alliagtor? A clean sweep around the northern end of Australia?
Having lived and worked in NT and FNQ for the past 12 years I can tell you that the aforementioned operators are not the only ones being closely watched by CASA, nor should they be the only ones either.
The Sunday grounding is most interesting indeed, has the paradigm moved and Friday at 16:59 is no longer the favored approach to pulling an AOC?
Having lived and worked in NT and FNQ for the past 12 years I can tell you that the aforementioned operators are not the only ones being closely watched by CASA, nor should they be the only ones either.
The Sunday grounding is most interesting indeed, has the paradigm moved and Friday at 16:59 is no longer the favored approach to pulling an AOC?