GPS Training Course
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GPS Training Course
Morning Fellas,
I am from Melbourne, Victoria and am currently in the final stages of my CPL training at Morrabbin airport.
Just curious if anyone can suggest somewhere (preferably nearby) I may be able to undergo a GPS course in the very near future.
Unforunately my school doesn't have a course running until Feb, but I am planning a fly away before my CPL test and would like to have a good grasp on it prior to this and the flight test.
Thanks in Advance.
I am from Melbourne, Victoria and am currently in the final stages of my CPL training at Morrabbin airport.
Just curious if anyone can suggest somewhere (preferably nearby) I may be able to undergo a GPS course in the very near future.
Unforunately my school doesn't have a course running until Feb, but I am planning a fly away before my CPL test and would like to have a good grasp on it prior to this and the flight test.
Thanks in Advance.
I'm a tad surprised you haven't at least got a basic grasp on it nearly at CPL. I thought most (if not all) the schools at MB would have some GPS equipped aircraft?
Anyway, if it's a GNS430 unit you are expecting to use you can use this trainer: Garmin: 400 Series Simulator Updates & Downloads
For use as a supplement to visual navigation the Garmins with displays are extremely easy to use and you should pick it up in no time
Anyway, if it's a GNS430 unit you are expecting to use you can use this trainer: Garmin: 400 Series Simulator Updates & Downloads
For use as a supplement to visual navigation the Garmins with displays are extremely easy to use and you should pick it up in no time
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A few years ago I did the GPS ground school class at Melbourne Flight Training (MFT) at Moorabbin airport and would recommend it to others.
The instructor was good and had a selection of different GPS units and simulators to practise with.
Just need to complete the course (single day from memory) to get the logbook stamp.
The instructor was good and had a selection of different GPS units and simulators to practise with.
Just need to complete the course (single day from memory) to get the logbook stamp.
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Hi Peter thanks for the reply, I am actually at MFT and I do have a good grasp on how it works haha.
Unfortunately the next course isn't until Feb 2nd from that very same instructor that taught you, and my test will be before then.
My thinking is, since I have not sat an approved course and subsequently recieved a sticker in my logbook, then I do not think I will be able to legally use it in flight test conditions.
Someone may be able to clarify this for me. I just don't want the ATO to switch it off completely since I am not "approved" to use it, as I normally use it for basic functions such as getting a direct track for a diversion etc.
AA.
Unfortunately the next course isn't until Feb 2nd from that very same instructor that taught you, and my test will be before then.
My thinking is, since I have not sat an approved course and subsequently recieved a sticker in my logbook, then I do not think I will be able to legally use it in flight test conditions.
Someone may be able to clarify this for me. I just don't want the ATO to switch it off completely since I am not "approved" to use it, as I normally use it for basic functions such as getting a direct track for a diversion etc.
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The approval you get from the GPS course relates to IFR anyway, so there really is no advantage in terms of a VFR flight test, ie you don't need any approval to use the equipment as supplemental means.
The CPL test form says at least one leg requires basic visual navigation, so the ATO will not allow you to use it (or any other navaid), probably when you are on the leg that requires you to locate a place remote from significant ground features.
Having said that, if you use the GPS when the ATO allows, make sure you do what it says in C8.8 of the syllabus. You have to verify the integrity of the signal and check the waypoint information against another verifiable source.
I think as a general rule if equipment is installed in an aeroplane then the pilot should know how to use it properly, so i applaud your decision to give it a go in the test. It's amazing how many people refuse to use autopilots and GPS despite the pre-flight briefing including "feel free to use all the equipment on board - let me worry about the test requirements, you just do what you'd do if this was a charter flight and you were the PIC..."
Sorry for the thread drift, i'm not in ML so don't know any places to do the course. Good luck with the test.
The CPL test form says at least one leg requires basic visual navigation, so the ATO will not allow you to use it (or any other navaid), probably when you are on the leg that requires you to locate a place remote from significant ground features.
Having said that, if you use the GPS when the ATO allows, make sure you do what it says in C8.8 of the syllabus. You have to verify the integrity of the signal and check the waypoint information against another verifiable source.
I think as a general rule if equipment is installed in an aeroplane then the pilot should know how to use it properly, so i applaud your decision to give it a go in the test. It's amazing how many people refuse to use autopilots and GPS despite the pre-flight briefing including "feel free to use all the equipment on board - let me worry about the test requirements, you just do what you'd do if this was a charter flight and you were the PIC..."
Sorry for the thread drift, i'm not in ML so don't know any places to do the course. Good luck with the test.
Arch Angelos if you can do those basic things that's all you need.
Also wrt:
"I just don't want the ATO to switch it off completely since I am not "approved" to use it,"
I suggest you have a read of AIP ENR 19.2.1 specifically Note 2
There also used to be a section in AIP about the use of GNSS for VFR but I can't seem to find it. Anyone?
Also wrt:
"I just don't want the ATO to switch it off completely since I am not "approved" to use it,"
I suggest you have a read of AIP ENR 19.2.1 specifically Note 2
There also used to be a section in AIP about the use of GNSS for VFR but I can't seem to find it. Anyone?
Why oh why, is there starting to be a generation of pilots who are relying too much on GPS? Are you really telling me Arch Angelos, that if you didn't have a GPS onboard, you would not be able to navigate?
These things do stop sometimes, then what are you going to do?
morno
These things do stop sometimes, then what are you going to do?
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"I just don't want the ATO to switch it off completely since I am not "approved" to use it,"
I have been in the flight levels with two of Garmin's IFR TSO'd finest both going into 'DR' mode for 10 mins or so. Watcha going to do then?
The CPL is part of the day VFR syllabus and has already been mentioned, the emphasis is on visual navigation. Navigation aids (including GPS) are supplementary but should not be needed or necessary for you to succeed.
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Momo, before you go pointing fingers at my VFR navigation skills, you obviously didn't read my initial post.
I have and will always use the GPS as a back up nav aid to speed up my diversion calculations and confirm my fixes. Until my dual nav yesterday I had never used the GPS at all apart from being taught the basics, but was in fact told off by my instructor for NOT using the autopilot and GPS.
Additionally, I am MFT boy and fly analogue through and through so I can assure, I am not one of those pilots you so eloquently seemed to describe.
(Love pprune, the young pilot asks an honest question and gets accused of something which is completely off topic from what I was asking)
I have and will always use the GPS as a back up nav aid to speed up my diversion calculations and confirm my fixes. Until my dual nav yesterday I had never used the GPS at all apart from being taught the basics, but was in fact told off by my instructor for NOT using the autopilot and GPS.
Additionally, I am MFT boy and fly analogue through and through so I can assure, I am not one of those pilots you so eloquently seemed to describe.
(Love pprune, the young pilot asks an honest question and gets accused of something which is completely off topic from what I was asking)
Last edited by Arch Angelos; 23rd Nov 2012 at 04:59.
I did read your initial post, so tell me what I missed?
I don't disagree that you should use the GPS when you have it available, BUT, if I were an examiner, I'd also like to know that you can navigate entirely without the use of a GPS, diversions and everything.
When I did my CPL, I never even touched a GPS until after I had my licence.
morno
I don't disagree that you should use the GPS when you have it available, BUT, if I were an examiner, I'd also like to know that you can navigate entirely without the use of a GPS, diversions and everything.
When I did my CPL, I never even touched a GPS until after I had my licence.
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As someone has said, use a downloadable PC trainer to get a grasp of the basics if there are no classes being run. I taught myself IFR GPS skills using the manual, a trainer tool and an hour or two in the air (in a place without ground courses etc), so it can't be hard...
For Supplemental VFR use it should be enough to a) know when the unit is giving faulty information, and b) know how use Direct To & the Nearest functions. If you're not using it as primary means, that's enough to start with.
Good luck.
For Supplemental VFR use it should be enough to a) know when the unit is giving faulty information, and b) know how use Direct To & the Nearest functions. If you're not using it as primary means, that's enough to start with.
Good luck.
Last edited by Oktas8; 23rd Nov 2012 at 09:34.
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Thank you for all the advice will take it all onboard.
Morno, let me see mate...the bit of my post asking for a GPS course provider, not asking for you to go off on a tangent and critically evaluate the industry.
Next time I need a back up instructor to critically analyse my vfr navigation skills when not using the GPS, remind to PM you as I'm likely to forget your useless piece of advice.
Currently I'm happy with the training I'm receiving.
Cheers. I eagerly await your next well thought out post.
Morno, let me see mate...the bit of my post asking for a GPS course provider, not asking for you to go off on a tangent and critically evaluate the industry.
Next time I need a back up instructor to critically analyse my vfr navigation skills when not using the GPS, remind to PM you as I'm likely to forget your useless piece of advice.
Currently I'm happy with the training I'm receiving.
Cheers. I eagerly await your next well thought out post.
Mate, I don't have time to read bull**** at this hour of the morning after flying all night.
Don't be so precious, otherwise you're not going to enjoy the industry if you cry over every piece of criticism. Get used to it. I have enough experience in this industry to make a criticism when the evidence appears in front of me.
If you're training is as good as you say it is, then you wouldn't have had to post that question would you? You're VFR, you don't require an approval to use it!
Look forward to your next thought out whinge.
Rant over - time for sleep.
morno
Don't be so precious, otherwise you're not going to enjoy the industry if you cry over every piece of criticism. Get used to it. I have enough experience in this industry to make a criticism when the evidence appears in front of me.
If you're training is as good as you say it is, then you wouldn't have had to post that question would you? You're VFR, you don't require an approval to use it!
Look forward to your next thought out whinge.
Rant over - time for sleep.
morno
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Was that post your wrote supposed to be hurtful or something, because I actually find this mildy amusing.
Me precious? Really? It seems you're the one that needs to back up your accusations and finger pointing by telling me how much experience you have.
What evidence? I just told you I haven't been using the GPS.
Your're right, you're clearly sleep deprived or you're one of those people on pprune that I so often feel sorry for in the industry.
Tbh, I don't care about your experience level or how much of a pathetic key board warrior pilot you are...and yes, I am not going to enjoy the industry if I have to fly with people like you. Thankfully all the airline pilots I know provide good feedback.
Good job
Me precious? Really? It seems you're the one that needs to back up your accusations and finger pointing by telling me how much experience you have.
What evidence? I just told you I haven't been using the GPS.
Your're right, you're clearly sleep deprived or you're one of those people on pprune that I so often feel sorry for in the industry.
Tbh, I don't care about your experience level or how much of a pathetic key board warrior pilot you are...and yes, I am not going to enjoy the industry if I have to fly with people like you. Thankfully all the airline pilots I know provide good feedback.
Good job
I just don't want the ATO to switch it off completely since I am not "approved" to use it, as I normally use it for basic functions such as getting a direct track for a diversion etc.
Agree with Morno (and scavenger, and Capt Nomad). You have said you normally use the GPS for basic functions. Isn't that what a map and protractor are for?
Granted, by CPL you should know how to use the equipment on your aircraft, and I commend you wanting to obtain the proper qualification.
I would ask if MFT gave you a NVFR as part of your CPL and why the GPS Enroute wasn't done as part of that, but that may be construed as a tangentially critical evaluation of the industry.
But I digress, you cannot expect to pass a CPL if you cannot work out how to use a map! GPS is the first thing any ATO will turn off (ie. simulate as "failed") and no amount of complaining, "but I'm qualified!", will change the fact that unless you can navigate without a GPS, YOU WILL FAIL YOUR TEST.
Grow a set, stop hiding behind your perceived anonymity and listen to what's being told by poeple with a lot more experience than you when you ask.
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Ffs...what is the matter with this forum. I asked a simple question about where to do a GPS course since I was told by my CFI to attend one/ask on pprune where to go since my school isn't running one and I have to deal with this crap.
MakeItHappenCaptain, if you would like to see how big my "set" is I would oblige, but that is just disgusting and has nothing to do with flying. Why would you even correlate that with my flying skills and/or character? You filthy minded man.
(Excuse this comment but since you are getting personal I thought I'd take it upon myself to do the same)
I am going to be honest; I didn't read your post in its entirety. Mainly because the amount of a negative **** I don't give about what you have to say about something totally unrelated to title of the post is going beyond infinity at this stage.
Your advice, although amusing, is about as useful as windscreen wipers on a submarine.
If you would like to either a) PM me so we continue this argument in a less mature manner (which is how it seems you wish to) or b)...
Who am I kidding there is no b)...I really don't care anymore, nor do I have the time to argue with grown men who still use emoticons in their posts.
MakeItHappenCaptain, if you would like to see how big my "set" is I would oblige, but that is just disgusting and has nothing to do with flying. Why would you even correlate that with my flying skills and/or character? You filthy minded man.
(Excuse this comment but since you are getting personal I thought I'd take it upon myself to do the same)
I am going to be honest; I didn't read your post in its entirety. Mainly because the amount of a negative **** I don't give about what you have to say about something totally unrelated to title of the post is going beyond infinity at this stage.
Your advice, although amusing, is about as useful as windscreen wipers on a submarine.
If you would like to either a) PM me so we continue this argument in a less mature manner (which is how it seems you wish to) or b)...
Who am I kidding there is no b)...I really don't care anymore, nor do I have the time to argue with grown men who still use emoticons in their posts.
Last edited by Arch Angelos; 24th Nov 2012 at 08:49.
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Don't worry about it arch. MFT will have prepared you adequately for your CPL test otherwise Buckers and his band of experienced instructors will not recommend you for the test There is, after all, other agencies monitoring their performance as a training organisation.
Do you need to do a full day course to get the approval? You may be able to find an instructor to do the approval for you at the cost of briefings?
And be prepared in your test for the ATO to switch off the GPS for most if not all of the test
There is, after all, other agencies monitoring their performance as a training organisation.Do you need to do a full day course to get the approval? You may be able to find an instructor to do the approval for you at the cost of briefings?
And be prepared in your test for the ATO to switch off the GPS for most if not all of the test
And be prepared in your test for the ATO to switch off the GPS for most if not all of the test
Once again, you asked for a qualification, good,
You stated the reason you wanted the qualification, bad,
Multiple people chipped you for that reason, fair,
You denied stating that reason, wrong,
I normally use it for basic functions
What evidence? i just told you I haven't been using the GPS
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Ffs...what is the matter with this forum. I asked a simple question about where to do a GPS course since I was told by my CFI to attend one/ask on PPRuNe where to go since my school isn't running one and I have to deal with this crap.
Arch
If you want to really wind some of these folks up, tell them you intend to use an iPad in the test... Dead easy to use, all the GPS functions anyone could desire, maps and docs too!
Sone think you should turn up in a Tiger Moth with just one of those old boat compasses, a map and a watch. Then the ATO could fail your watch or something
Most examiners are sensible. They won't mind you using GPS for some things but will want to see you can use it properly, understand its limitations and get by without it if you have to. Good on ya for trying to learn about GPS properly.