USA OUTLAWS EU Carbon Tax...
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Earth created.
...cooling....warming....cooling....warming....cooling....wa rming....cooling....warming....cooling....warming....cooling ....warming....cooling....warming....cooling....warming....c ooling....warming....cooling....warming....cooling....warmin g....cooling....warming....cooling....warming....cooling.... warming....cooling....warming....cooling....warming....cooli ng....warming....cooling....warming....cooling....warming... .cooling....
DINOSAURS
....warming....cooling....warming....cooling....warming ....cooling....warming....cooling....warming....cooling....w arming....cooling....warming....cooling....warming....coolin g....warming....cooling....warming....cooling....warming.... cooling....warming....cooling....warming....cooling....warmi ng....cooling....HUMANS....warming....cooling....warming....cooling....warming ....cooling....warming....cooling....warming....cooling....w arming....cooling....warming....cooling....warming....coolin g....warming....cooling....warming....cooling....warming.... cooling....warming....cooling
...cooling....warming....cooling....warming....cooling....wa rming....cooling....warming....cooling....warming....cooling ....warming....cooling....warming....cooling....warming....c ooling....warming....cooling....warming....cooling....warmin g....cooling....warming....cooling....warming....cooling.... warming....cooling....warming....cooling....warming....cooli ng....warming....cooling....warming....cooling....warming... .cooling....
DINOSAURS....warming....cooling....warming....cooling....warming ....cooling....warming....cooling....warming....cooling....w arming....cooling....warming....cooling....warming....coolin g....warming....cooling....warming....cooling....warming.... cooling....warming....cooling....warming....cooling....warmi ng....cooling....HUMANS....warming....cooling....warming....cooling....warming ....cooling....warming....cooling....warming....cooling....w arming....cooling....warming....cooling....warming....coolin g....warming....cooling....warming....cooling....warming.... cooling....warming....cooling
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Griffo & Dude there are two points you seem to want to ignore. 1-Most of the historical climate changes you allude to took place over very long periods of time so life had time to adapt. 2- The ones that were sudden wiped out a very large % of life on earth.
One hundred years over the geological time scale is a blink of the eye. You don't have time to grow fins and learn to live in an acidic sea. A 2-6 deg average temp rise (no matter how much FGD135 wants to deny it) over the whole planet is a very large change and no one really knows how it will play out. I do think it's like messing with a mother-in-law - not worth doing.
Cheers RA
One hundred years over the geological time scale is a blink of the eye. You don't have time to grow fins and learn to live in an acidic sea. A 2-6 deg average temp rise (no matter how much FGD135 wants to deny it) over the whole planet is a very large change and no one really knows how it will play out. I do think it's like messing with a mother-in-law - not worth doing.
Cheers RA
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The SMART QUOTE in todays Aviation E-brief might be useful on this thread. "No problem can withstand the assault of sustained thinking" Voltaire. Frank did you really say that?
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Round and round we go...
"What do you reckon is causing the warming"
Hmmm... why dont we see what the late Reid Bryson had to say about it. In his time it were said he were "the most frequently cited climatologist in the world" and "the science some say he invented"
Some extracts of an interview of Reid Bryson...
...“Climate’s always been changing and it’s been changing rapidly at various times, and so something was making it change in the past,” he told us in an interview this past winter. “Before there were enough people to make any difference at all, two million years ago, nobody was changing the climate, yet the climate was changing, okay?”
“All this argument is the temperature going up or not, it’s absurd,” Bryson continues. “Of course it’s going up. It has gone up since the early 1800s, before the Industrial Revolution, because we’re coming out of the Little Ice Age, not because we’re putting more carbon dioxide into the air.”
Little Ice Age? That’s what chased the Vikings out of Greenland after they’d farmed there for a few hundred years during the Mediaeval Warm Period, an earlier run of a few centuries when the planet was very likely warmer than it is now, without any help from industrial activity in making it that way. What’s called “proxy evidence”—assorted clues extrapolated from marine sediment cores, pollen specimens, and tree-ring data—helps reconstruct the climate in those times before instrumental temperature records existed.
We ask about that evidence, but Bryson says it’s second-tier stuff. “Don’t talk about proxies,” he says. “We have written evidence, eyeball evidence. When Eric the Red went to Greenland, how did he get there? It’s all written down.”
Bryson describes the navigational instructions provided for Norse mariners making their way from Europe to their settlements in Greenland. The place was named for a reason: The Norse farmed there from the 10th century to the 13th, a somewhat longer period than the United States has existed. But around 1200 the mariners’ instructions changed in a big way. Ice became a major navigational reference. Today, old Viking farmsteads are covered by glaciers.
Bryson mentions the retreat of Alpine glaciers, common grist for current headlines. “What do they find when the ice sheets retreat, in the Alps?”
We recall the two-year-old report saying a mature forest and agricultural water-management structures had been discovered emerging from the ice, seeing sunlight for the first time in thousands of years. Bryson interrupts excitedly.
“A silver mine! The guys had stacked up their tools because they were going to be back the next spring to mine more silver, only the snow never went,” he says. “There used to be less ice than now. It’s just getting back to normal.”...
WECN May 2007
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Round and round we go...
via rutan around #137;
...Given the absence of of any recent strikes by giant asteroids,the lack of any abnormal volcanic activity and the non expansion of the sun you are fast running out of other possible culprits especially when you look at what man has been up to over the last 100 or so years.What do you reckon is causing the warming? Fairies with ray guns? Some of the deniers here will know. They're often away with them.
...Given the absence of of any recent strikes by giant asteroids,the lack of any abnormal volcanic activity and the non expansion of the sun you are fast running out of other possible culprits especially when you look at what man has been up to over the last 100 or so years.What do you reckon is causing the warming? Fairies with ray guns? Some of the deniers here will know. They're often away with them.
Hmmm... why dont we see what the late Reid Bryson had to say about it. In his time it were said he were "the most frequently cited climatologist in the world" and "the science some say he invented"
Some extracts of an interview of Reid Bryson...
...“Climate’s always been changing and it’s been changing rapidly at various times, and so something was making it change in the past,” he told us in an interview this past winter. “Before there were enough people to make any difference at all, two million years ago, nobody was changing the climate, yet the climate was changing, okay?”
“All this argument is the temperature going up or not, it’s absurd,” Bryson continues. “Of course it’s going up. It has gone up since the early 1800s, before the Industrial Revolution, because we’re coming out of the Little Ice Age, not because we’re putting more carbon dioxide into the air.”
Little Ice Age? That’s what chased the Vikings out of Greenland after they’d farmed there for a few hundred years during the Mediaeval Warm Period, an earlier run of a few centuries when the planet was very likely warmer than it is now, without any help from industrial activity in making it that way. What’s called “proxy evidence”—assorted clues extrapolated from marine sediment cores, pollen specimens, and tree-ring data—helps reconstruct the climate in those times before instrumental temperature records existed.
We ask about that evidence, but Bryson says it’s second-tier stuff. “Don’t talk about proxies,” he says. “We have written evidence, eyeball evidence. When Eric the Red went to Greenland, how did he get there? It’s all written down.”
Bryson describes the navigational instructions provided for Norse mariners making their way from Europe to their settlements in Greenland. The place was named for a reason: The Norse farmed there from the 10th century to the 13th, a somewhat longer period than the United States has existed. But around 1200 the mariners’ instructions changed in a big way. Ice became a major navigational reference. Today, old Viking farmsteads are covered by glaciers.
Bryson mentions the retreat of Alpine glaciers, common grist for current headlines. “What do they find when the ice sheets retreat, in the Alps?”
We recall the two-year-old report saying a mature forest and agricultural water-management structures had been discovered emerging from the ice, seeing sunlight for the first time in thousands of years. Bryson interrupts excitedly.
“A silver mine! The guys had stacked up their tools because they were going to be back the next spring to mine more silver, only the snow never went,” he says. “There used to be less ice than now. It’s just getting back to normal.”...
WECN May 2007
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RA, do you believe in depopulation of the human species?
In terms of biomass, we humans are still not the greatest impact on our environment. You will surprise yourself. However, we humans, ever since our hunter gatherer ancestors invented the plow and domesticate a wild grass and a couple of animal species, master our environment. Indeed we change the conditions to suit our species. RA, you propose that we humans are a threat!
RA, just tell me one thing. You are a molecule of CO2. What do you do with Infra-red radiation?
In terms of biomass, we humans are still not the greatest impact on our environment. You will surprise yourself. However, we humans, ever since our hunter gatherer ancestors invented the plow and domesticate a wild grass and a couple of animal species, master our environment. Indeed we change the conditions to suit our species. RA, you propose that we humans are a threat!
RA, just tell me one thing. You are a molecule of CO2. What do you do with Infra-red radiation?
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via #126: Now Towering Q, do tell how you think you know what my reading is...
errr... Towering Q, one thread is bit of a short time frame to be making an assessment of my reading/research habits don't yer think..
Admittedly, by using short time periods, yer doing just what them AGW pushing climate 'scientists' do to support their claims..
Reference my use of WUWT and JoNova... Watts Up With That (WUWT) is one of the worlds main climate websites where most anything of interest re AGW will get a mention. WUWT lists many links to other web sites even including a rabid raving climate hysteria site. JoNova is one of the main Australian AGW related web sites so anything of Oz interest will likely be mentioned there. ...So, it would be of no surprise that those two web sites get a lot of reference links..
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via #126: Now Towering Q, do tell how you think you know what my reading is...
via Towering Q #127:
Just a wild guess based on the links you provide in your posts....
#14 Watts Up With That?
#49 JoNova
#50 Watts Up With That?
#51 Watts Up With That? (Twice)
#108 JoNova
Just a wild guess based on the links you provide in your posts....
#14 Watts Up With That?
#49 JoNova
#50 Watts Up With That?
#51 Watts Up With That? (Twice)
#108 JoNova
Admittedly, by using short time periods, yer doing just what them AGW pushing climate 'scientists' do to support their claims.. Reference my use of WUWT and JoNova... Watts Up With That (WUWT) is one of the worlds main climate websites where most anything of interest re AGW will get a mention. WUWT lists many links to other web sites even including a rabid raving climate hysteria site. JoNova is one of the main Australian AGW related web sites so anything of Oz interest will likely be mentioned there. ...So, it would be of no surprise that those two web sites get a lot of reference links..
.
Last edited by Flying Binghi; 13th Dec 2012 at 21:24.
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The problem of Climate Change and Global Warming is so big and so encompassing, that "sustained thinking" will not be enough.
My opinion is that the Carbon Tax was a good idea to reduce Carbon Emissions and help mitigate Global Warming. At least it makes people think about what is coming out of smoke stacks.
My opinion is that the Carbon Tax was a good idea to reduce Carbon Emissions and help mitigate Global Warming. At least it makes people think about what is coming out of smoke stacks.
Hold the phone! Rapid climate change? Where and how much!
If anyone mentions the extended drought from 98 till 09 then we had two that long at the turn of the previous centre and one in the mid eighteen hundreds that was hotter still than current "extreme" temperatures. What burns me up is I still haven't got any hotter than the summers of 68 thru to 71 when I lived in Wangaratta. AGWers hope and prey on people with short memories.
If anyone mentions the extended drought from 98 till 09 then we had two that long at the turn of the previous centre and one in the mid eighteen hundreds that was hotter still than current "extreme" temperatures. What burns me up is I still haven't got any hotter than the summers of 68 thru to 71 when I lived in Wangaratta. AGWers hope and prey on people with short memories.
David Karolly goes on about the November temperature in Mildura just recently. Funny, it always seems to be that hot every harvest season. Especially in 2000 was that hot for a bumper harvest.
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To attempt to correct the thread drift, the discussion is about the US outlawing the carbon tax, not whether climate change/ global warming/ cyclic ice ages/ kangaroo farts is or is not a fact.
My take on the matter, despite my leaning as far away from our incumbant government involvement, is that a tax will not fix whatever the problem is, perceived or otherwise.
Or to put it another way, if the answer is a tax, what is the question.
My take on the matter, despite my leaning as far away from our incumbant government involvement, is that a tax will not fix whatever the problem is, perceived or otherwise.
Or to put it another way, if the answer is a tax, what is the question.
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peterc005
im really curious how juliars carbon tax is supposed to have any effect at all when the revenue collected is almost entirely (supposedly) redistributed to the masses so they can afford to keep buying the taxed goods in the same quantities as before? wealth redistribution by another name.
of course the climate changes. always has, always will. why have you blokes stopped calling it global warming? even if it is warming (which i'm not convinced) how much of that is man induced? that bit i think will not be properly understood or agreed on for quite a few generations yet.
if i was to believe some of the language being used i should be out the back building my arc now.
im really curious how juliars carbon tax is supposed to have any effect at all when the revenue collected is almost entirely (supposedly) redistributed to the masses so they can afford to keep buying the taxed goods in the same quantities as before? wealth redistribution by another name.
of course the climate changes. always has, always will. why have you blokes stopped calling it global warming? even if it is warming (which i'm not convinced) how much of that is man induced? that bit i think will not be properly understood or agreed on for quite a few generations yet.
if i was to believe some of the language being used i should be out the back building my arc now.
Seasonally Adjusted
errr... Towering Q, one thread is bit of a short time frame to be making an assessment of my reading/research habits don't yer think
#237 Watts Up With That?
#328 Watts Up With That?
#368 Watts Up With That?
#401 JoNova
#425 JoNova
#436 Watts Up With That?
#472 Watts Up With That?
Seasonally Adjusted
Watts Up With That (WUWT) is one of the worlds main climate websites where most anything of interest re AGW will get a mention.
Watts was paid $44,000 by the Heartland Institute in January – with a further $44,000 promised later this year.
The Heartland Institute was described by the New York Times as "the primary American organization pushing climate change skepticism".
Hmmm.
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Keep going Towering Q. Under the Flying Binghi call sign ah gots a thousand or so AGW related posts here at pprune. Over a thousand AGW posts at the defunct The Environment Site, and many posts at Deltiod, the defunct Senator Steve Feilding site, The Permaculture site, the Hypography science site, the Weather Zone site, and even a vegetarian site. That should keep yer occupied for a while..
Towering Q, yer starting to look like some religious evangelical trying hard to find a devil. If i don't believe in your 'religion' it must be the devils work eh.
Towering Q, if yer got nothing to prove the catastrophic global warming claims, just say so..
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via Towering Q:
From the "Gillard Carbon Tax and effect on Aviation Fuel" thread...
#237 Watts Up With That?
#328 Watts Up With That?
#368 Watts Up With That?
#401 JoNova
#425 JoNova
#436 Watts Up With That?
#472 Watts Up With That?
From the "Gillard Carbon Tax and effect on Aviation Fuel" thread...
#237 Watts Up With That?
#328 Watts Up With That?
#368 Watts Up With That?
#401 JoNova
#425 JoNova
#436 Watts Up With That?
#472 Watts Up With That?
via Towering Q#152:
Watts Up With That, was created up by former TV weatherman, Anthony Watts.
Watts was paid $44,000 by the Heartland Institute in January – with a further $44,000 promised later this year.
The Heartland Institute was described by the New York Times as "the primary American organization pushing climate change skepticism".
Watts Up With That, was created up by former TV weatherman, Anthony Watts.
Watts was paid $44,000 by the Heartland Institute in January – with a further $44,000 promised later this year.
The Heartland Institute was described by the New York Times as "the primary American organization pushing climate change skepticism".
Towering Q, if yer got nothing to prove the catastrophic global warming claims, just say so..
.
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There are two sides to the Global Warming debate:
In one corner are all of the universities, the CSIRO and 99% of relevant scientists. This side is backed up by thirty years of peer-reviewed science.
In the other corner we have a collection of grumpy old men and conspiracy theory nutters who post pseudo-scientific and unsubstantiated rants on anonymous internet forums all day. This side is backed up by AM shock-jocks like Alan Jones.
Man-made Global warming is real and a Carbon Tax is a good first step to reduce carbon emissions.
In one corner are all of the universities, the CSIRO and 99% of relevant scientists. This side is backed up by thirty years of peer-reviewed science.
In the other corner we have a collection of grumpy old men and conspiracy theory nutters who post pseudo-scientific and unsubstantiated rants on anonymous internet forums all day. This side is backed up by AM shock-jocks like Alan Jones.
Man-made Global warming is real and a Carbon Tax is a good first step to reduce carbon emissions.
peterc005
Unsubstantiated crap. Prove it.
Prove it again and by the way what is your definition of relevant?
Prove it. Funny every time I see any dissent from within the scientific community they are castigated for their point of view by the hard line AGW believers. From where I sit I would call that Peer Group Pressure rather than Peer Reviewed Science. But hey that is how bullies work isn’t it? It’s a bit like you and some of the other “True Believers” here who constantly use derogatory terms to describe the non-believers but at the same time refuse to answer the questions being asked of you.
In one corner are all of the universities
the CSIRO and 99% of relevant scientists.
This side is backed up by thirty years of peer-reviewed science.
In the other corner we have a collection of grumpy old men and conspiracy theory nutters who post pseudo-scientific and unsubstantiated rants on anonymous internet forums all day. This side is backed up by AM shock-jocks like Alan Jones.
In the other corner we have a collection of grumpy old men and conspiracy theory nutters who post pseudo-scientific and unsubstantiated rants on anonymous internet forums all day. This side is backed up by AM shock-jocks like Alan Jones.
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Fred Hoyle the leading mathematician of his day never accepted that our universe is expanding.
Doctors took 20-30 years to accept that ulcers are caused by helicobacter pylori bugs
The catholic church took 350 years to accept that the earth orbits the sun.
Based on these facts how long will it take to convince a climate change denier that we must change our polluting ways? Most certainly much more time than I have left. Much as I would like to discuss the effect of co2 on radiation in the 13-17 micron absorption band and wax lyrical about depopulation being automatic if we stuff our environment I'm afraid I'm going to have to take my wife's advice and "Stop talking to those d*^k heads on P-Prune and do some work"
Cheers RA
Doctors took 20-30 years to accept that ulcers are caused by helicobacter pylori bugs
The catholic church took 350 years to accept that the earth orbits the sun.
Based on these facts how long will it take to convince a climate change denier that we must change our polluting ways? Most certainly much more time than I have left. Much as I would like to discuss the effect of co2 on radiation in the 13-17 micron absorption band and wax lyrical about depopulation being automatic if we stuff our environment I'm afraid I'm going to have to take my wife's advice and "Stop talking to those d*^k heads on P-Prune and do some work"
Cheers RA