Owning and flying N reg in Australia

[HighFlyer75]

Does anybody have any information or experience on owning an N reg airplane in Australia? I will be moving back there at the end of this year after a few years away and would like to buy an airplane when I do.

I have an FAA CPL and I am considering two possibilities;

1. Convert my licence to a CASA one. I have been looking into this and while the steps are well defined on the CASA web site, there would be a bit or work involved and it would likely take a while.

2. Keep my FAA licence and buy an N reg plane and look to convert my licence at a later stage. This plane would only be used for private flying.

I have looked through pprune and done a bit of googling but I can't really find any information on any pitfalls associated with N reg ownership in Australia (FAA flight reviews, maintenance etc)

Thanks,
HF

[601]

There is something in the FARs in regarding to operating outside the US airspace. From what I remember (20 yrs ago), you had to operate a certain percentage of the hours flown within the US airspace.

[hiwaytohell]

If you are looking at the lowest cost, convert your licence to CASA. Its not that big a deal.

Operating an N registered aircraft only makes sense if: a) you are going to re-export it; b) you continue to operate internationally, c) the aircraft is a bit unusual, first of type or has modifications that will be difficult or costly to support on the VH registry

[VH-XXX]

Maintenence might hurt you over in OZ as I belive you will require the services of an FAA approved LAME equivalent.

[QFF]

N reg

May not be as daft an idea as it first may seem, given the way CASA maintenance regs are going.

Some pros - a "minor" modification under the new regs may now require an Engineering Order and a pile of paperwork/money to accomplish vs a simple logbook entry stating minor modification done followed by details and A&P's signature under N reg.

Also - a whole rash of CASA AD's e.g. mandatory prop overhaul at 10 years vs no such requirement under Part 91 (private ops) if N reg. No 100 hrly required under Part 91, only an annual.

Cons - need to find an A&P with Inspection Authority to do annuals here in Oz.

[QFF]

The Europeans are doing a lot of exactly what you are describing (i.e. owning and operating N reg aircraft & occasionally offering training/renewals in them), mainly because of the onerous European licensing and maintenance regulations which CASA appear to be copying.

The main restriction in Europe is the right to work in the EU rather than any FAA restrictions, so I would assume the same would apply here. The only FAA restriction I know of is that ab-initio & certain other flight training needs TSA approval but renewals do not.

[172driver]

There is something in the FARs in regarding to operating outside the US airspace. From what I remember (20 yrs ago), you had to operate a certain percentage of the hours flown within the US airspace.

Nonsense. There are loads of N-reg operating in Europe, and they sure as hell don't cross the Atlantic on a regular basis.

The only thing you, as pilot, will need is the FCC radio license. Pure paper exercise. Reason: in the US the radio license is considered part of your pilot's license, doesn't work that way outside the US, you need a separate piece of paper. The only challenge (and that's a very real one!) is to navigate the totally insane FCC website.

[thorn bird]

An option may be, put the aircraft on the NZ register, their regs are aligned with the FAR's, some say modernised FAR's and workable, and Kiwiland is a lot closer.
Given that CASA are hell bent on destroying GA in Australia, even their senior people are so arrogant they are openly saying that IS CASA policy...which of course takes precedence over government policy, because CASA is accountable to nobody but itself.
Corruption is always difficult to work around, the NZ system would seem to be corruption free.

[baron_beeza]

My believe is that it is not open slather, - you cannot just choose the Regulator you prefer in any country.

I also feel that the aircraft had to operate out of the country for a period to be eligible.
The times I have seen this have been for 'first of type' or other unusual conditions. Even then they eventually went onto the local register.

In this case, in Australia, you will have two regulators to deal with. The aircraft would be on the register of one country and have to comply with applicable rules in force there, - as well as operating iaw CASA regulations.

I have maintained aircraft in the local area using an FAA A&P but only ever on ad hoc and interim repairs.
A maintainer would really need to have an IA to be useful.

For what it is worth it is much easier operating within the NZ CAA rules. It seems to be one of the better regulatory systems about.

[172driver]

You own it through a trust. Search the 'Private Flying' section, there are loads of threads re this (caveat: almost all pertaining to operating in the EU, though).

[Capt Fathom]

Wasn't there a previous AOPA President who owned a N registered Navajo Panther?

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Believe there may be moves in the works (from JAA?) to require periodic returns to FAA territory due to the sheer number on N registrations that live in Europe pemanently.
Nothing definite, just what I've heard.

QFF
Annuals only and no 100 hrly requirements, are you sure?
Can I really fly 600 hrs + each year and only have to do an annual?

[QFF]

Annuals only...

That's what my FAA approved factory maintenance manual says... that's for non commercial (Part 91) ops only, mind you.

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

So even though the lycoming manual says 50 and 100 hourly services are required, that can be ignored?
Dude, that is severely fcuked up!

[172driver]

Believe there may be moves in the works (from JAA?) to require periodic returns to FAA territory due to the sheer number on N registrations that live in Europe pemanently.
Nothing definite, just what I've heard.

Keep munching that Schnitzel and drink a beer or two.... no such thing. What IS happening, is that EASA are proposing a dual-licensing regime within the EU. I.e. if you wanna fly an N-reg in Europe, you need both (FAA & EASA) licenses. Will mainly hit IR & CPL guys. Endless threads over in the Private Aviation forum.

JAA strictly speaking doesn't exist anymore, its EASA now. All very complicated (well, this is f*cked up Europe after all!).......

[baron_beeza]

Strange as it seems but the manufacturer doesn't get much say in how his aircraft product is maintained.
The Regulator has that luxury.
The Regulator, CASA, FAA, CAA etc gets to state how their rules are to applied.
Generally it would then be iaw the manufacturers recommendations to a greater or lesser extent.

For FAA aircraft they would generally require 100 Hr Inspections (can be by an A&P) with the Annual to be done by an IA. The IA has to approve mods and major repairs also.

The A&P certificate has not always been held in high regard by licenced engineers in some counties. A little bit like a watch with a round black nose and big ears.
Until recently it really did look like it came on the side of a Weetbix packet.
You had to cut the cardboard along the dotted lines, - literally.

The FAA IA would be a much more useful and valued document.

[HighFlyer75]

Hi All,

Thanks for all the responses so far. I read the Private Flying thread quite regularly so I was vaguely aware of some of the considerations from the European point of view. The biggest additional impact in Europe seems to be the dual-licencing that may be enforced with EASA (which sounds like a complete pain to me). Other than that it seems like most of the main considerations would be the same regardless of whether it's Europe or Australia;

- Need to purchase the N reg aircraft through a trust as I am not a US citizen
- Most likely need to import the plane as is doesn't seem like there are very many in Australia at the moment
- Require an FCC radio licence (I already have this)
- Need to find an A&P mechanic with IA
- Need to find someone authorised to perform FAA flight reviews

However, from what I have read so far it doesn't seem like owning N reg is a very common thing in Australia (certainly not compared to Europe). I will do a little bit more investigation but at this stage it is certainly looking like the best solution would be to immediately look at going through the conversion process. I actually have both a JAR/EASA PPL and an FAA CPL so I could look to convert the PPL in the short term and then do the CPL at a later stage (as my assumption would be that the CPL conversion is likely to take longer).

Thanks again for the replies. I will post any additional information that I find as I investigate further.

Cheers,
HF

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

JAA strictly speaking doesn't exist anymore, its EASA now. All very complicated (well, this is f*cked up Europe after all!).......

Hey, your continent, not mine. At least the beer's cold here, like it should be.

[Buck Rogers]

I own and Fly a VH registed aircraft in the US and fly it on an Aussie licence and have it serviced by a LAME.. not a problem

[sprocket check]

The only possible hitch to this is the insurance... If you stack and hurt someone you can get sued in the US. Different pool of sharks there....