Barry Hempel Inquest
Are we kidding ourselves if we believe there is only one "Barry Hempel" in Australia?
We ALL know of someone who plays fast & loose with the rules and operate to the standard of
"Rules are for the guidance of wise men ...and obendience only when it suits me"
I've been a nappy-wearing dibber-dobber in the past and I'll tell you now, it's pointless. Ignore the other guy, do your job the best you can, get on with your life.
We ALL know of someone who plays fast & loose with the rules and operate to the standard of "Rules are for the guidance of wise men ...and obendience only when it suits me"
This isn't even the first such accident.
A Strikemaster being allowed to take paying passengers when in a condition such that a wing falls off does not mark a robust regulatory environment!
A Strikemaster being allowed to take paying passengers when in a condition such that a wing falls off does not mark a robust regulatory environment!
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If CAA spent more time on it's job we pay them for and less time with corruption and crony's we would have a safer aviation environment.
Probably too simplistic a claim? I could rewrite it into a 1,000 page missive, but the conclusion would be the same.
Probably too simplistic a claim? I could rewrite it into a 1,000 page missive, but the conclusion would be the same.
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High horses ? – perhaps.
A band of Brothers E.K. Gann 1973 (?). Must have loaned my copy out to someone; anyway - as I remember it, the 'team' were standing looking at a relic they had resurrected and our hero was noting the reactions of his fellow pilots about to turn 'thought into deed'. And again, in Fate is the Hunter there is a similar passage were he and a co pilot come across a left behind aircraft and the question of which of his fellow peer pilots would be 'game' to fly it, and poses their various responses to being asked.
Point of the ramble – there are many types of airman, all with varying degrees of 'derring do', experience and knowledge. Mustering pilots think very little of being down in the dust and trees all day but would have a mild case of the sweats tackling rush hour in Sydney (oxymoron) on a day like yesterday.
Not safe, fair or logical to declare a bloke a cowboy just because 'you' wouldn't do it. There are the odd rogues and rascals in any physically 'potentially dangerous' profession; but, I would mildly suggest that in the aviation 'business' they are the exception rather than the rule and would recommend a degree of caution before making those judgements in the current climate.
Point of the ramble – there are many types of airman, all with varying degrees of 'derring do', experience and knowledge. Mustering pilots think very little of being down in the dust and trees all day but would have a mild case of the sweats tackling rush hour in Sydney (oxymoron) on a day like yesterday.
Not safe, fair or logical to declare a bloke a cowboy just because 'you' wouldn't do it. There are the odd rogues and rascals in any physically 'potentially dangerous' profession; but, I would mildly suggest that in the aviation 'business' they are the exception rather than the rule and would recommend a degree of caution before making those judgements in the current climate.
Last edited by Kharon; 10th Aug 2012 at 19:47. Reason: Tin hat left in bunker.
Kharon,
All fine and beut until you have an unsuspecting member of Joe Public onboard.
Then who is and isn't a "Cowboy" becomes very germane.
All fine and beut until you have an unsuspecting member of Joe Public onboard.
Then who is and isn't a "Cowboy" becomes very germane.
Kharon,
Regardless of what one might be willing to discuss with the blokes in Formosa before getting arrested for crashing an aircraft, a willingness to break the law in the certain knowledge that in doing so creates a REAL risk to the life of another almost defines "reckless indifference".
It falls way short of any sane pilot's definition of "professional" and personally I doubt it falls within the scope of "competent". I would be surprised if EKG would appreciate being cited in the defence of BH's actions.
Never mind the fact that Band of Brothers was set in the 1950s and Fate was written about the 1930s and 1940s, a diffreent era altogether.
We're a very different society and, short of another great war + depression, will remain so.
Regardless of what one might be willing to discuss with the blokes in Formosa before getting arrested for crashing an aircraft, a willingness to break the law in the certain knowledge that in doing so creates a REAL risk to the life of another almost defines "reckless indifference".
It falls way short of any sane pilot's definition of "professional" and personally I doubt it falls within the scope of "competent". I would be surprised if EKG would appreciate being cited in the defence of BH's actions.
Never mind the fact that Band of Brothers was set in the 1950s and Fate was written about the 1930s and 1940s, a diffreent era altogether.
We're a very different society and, short of another great war + depression, will remain so.
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Tin hat - good idea
Guys, please, I am categorically not defending BH nor any other who would show a – "willingness to break the law in the certain knowledge that in doing so creates a REAL risk to the life of another". Reckless is not on the horizon. Culpable homicide, manslaughter etc. perhaps, all come to mind. The fact that BH was thought medically fit to fly beats me, let alone any of the many 'other' issues surrounding this whole sorry business. It's a mighty puzzle for the legal eagles to be sure.
All I was trying to say is that there is a willingness to be judgemental about others, particularly when it come to aviation (any crew room in the world). See, EKG was not used in defence of BH, but to point out that people can and do see things differently, particularly when it's 'your' arse on the line. (Scuba diving ?- no way José).
This is a sad, sorry case for all and bad enough without it becoming a slanging match based on 'one mans' view of what or who constitutes being 'dangerous'. Just my AUD$ 00.20.
All I was trying to say is that there is a willingness to be judgemental about others, particularly when it come to aviation (any crew room in the world). See, EKG was not used in defence of BH, but to point out that people can and do see things differently, particularly when it's 'your' arse on the line. (Scuba diving ?- no way José).
This is a sad, sorry case for all and bad enough without it becoming a slanging match based on 'one mans' view of what or who constitutes being 'dangerous'. Just my AUD$ 00.20.
Last edited by Kharon; 10th Aug 2012 at 23:18.
Which begs the rhetorical question old son would you defend someone willing to break the law in the certain knowledge that in so doing no risk whatever to the life of another is incurred?
My late good late mate and once boss Bryan McCook (The Hat) put a chapter in his memoir which can be found by going back into place bilong tok tok the chapter about the death of Ray Jaensch which Bryan in hindsight knew would not have happened had he said the law is an ass and landed on the highland airstrip he had used earlier in the day but that the department a short time later closed.
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and landed on the highland airstrip he had used earlier in the day but that the department a short time later closed.
There are other protected species around today, indeed some openly discussed on other threads which we can all garner comfort by saying I told you so when the inevitable happens.
Apathy is a curse;
But who cares?
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Are we kidding ourselves if we believe there is only one "Barry Hempel" in Australia?
Tony Kern was ahead of his time when he wrote Darker Shades of Blue. The industry has more than one rogue and more than one rogue organisation, I can assure you of that.
Industry CRM Developers - Situational Awareness Management Course Outline was used as a anology for Hempel back on about page ten or eleven of this thread!
Quite similar circumstances i.e. "the ace of the base" could do no wrong in the eyes of the authorities and superiors!
By the way did you see the footage where 'Bud Holland' flew a B52 across a ridgeline at 60' or pulled AOB turns at close to right angles..sheesh ballsy but he did have a crew onboard who went along with it? I will have to dig out the footage..
ps Gobbles loved your post on the Moral Exemplar thread!
Are we kidding ourselves if we believe there is only one "Barry Hempel" in Australia?
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By the way did you see the footage where 'Bud Holland' flew a B52 across a ridgeline at 60' or pulled AOB turns at close to right angles..sheesh ballsy but he did have a crew onboard who went along with it?
Sarcs, also take a look at Glenn Curtiss, Lincoln Beachey, Herman Gorring, Max Immelmann and Boelcke...Some insightful reading.
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And who caan forget "wrong way Corrigan" who has been more recently represented by a Chinese pilot who had a mid air with an "American Spy Plane", name bilong, wait for it..... "wong wey".
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Fast forward to about 4.10 for the low ridge crossings.
Further reading about 'Bob' Holland in the Wiki link. 1994 Fairchild Air Force Base B-52 crash - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Seems you could replace some names, locations and aircraft types and it could be a story about BH.
Further reading about 'Bob' Holland in the Wiki link. 1994 Fairchild Air Force Base B-52 crash - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Seems you could replace some names, locations and aircraft types and it could be a story about BH.
Last edited by Lancair70; 13th Aug 2012 at 08:29.
Bud Holland
I believe the wife's scream, and the "Daddy daddy daddy!" you can hear is actually the family of the co-pilot, the squadron XO who refused to let anyone else fly with Bud Holland because he was such a ****wit.
Hearing that kid makes me tear up every time
Hearing that kid makes me tear up every time
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My apologies Horatio......
Yep, a very sad day for several families. And yes, the XO and only one or two others would fly with Bob in the end as his subordinates refused to do so because he was such a loose cannon.
Even sadder is the fact that there are others rogues out there in our industry, and I am not necessarily talking about GA where a lot of people point the finger.
Yep, a very sad day for several families. And yes, the XO and only one or two others would fly with Bob in the end as his subordinates refused to do so because he was such a loose cannon.
Even sadder is the fact that there are others rogues out there in our industry, and I am not necessarily talking about GA where a lot of people point the finger.