GA Business Aviation
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oz
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GA Business Aviation
Is there many private operators out there who use aircraft for there own business purposes, if so do you find that the aircraft makes a significant difference in the operation of you business?
Strange question I know but I recently come across this us website advocating business aviation and its benefits (no plane no gain). I noticed we don't seem to have a similar kind of advocacy here in Australia. They have some quite interesting material and videos.
Strange question I know but I recently come across this us website advocating business aviation and its benefits (no plane no gain). I noticed we don't seem to have a similar kind of advocacy here in Australia. They have some quite interesting material and videos.
US and OZ just worlds apart in terms of the scale of the operations there and here.
Private flying in the US seems the norm rather than a freakish occupation like we are seen here.
Yes I own and fly my own plane for my own business. Write it off on tax just like a car (couldn't afford one otherwise)
Mine pays for itself due the travel I do. I wouldn't drive the distances I fly so wouldn't have that work.
Highly recommend it if you are able to justify it.
Cheers
Private flying in the US seems the norm rather than a freakish occupation like we are seen here.
Yes I own and fly my own plane for my own business. Write it off on tax just like a car (couldn't afford one otherwise)
Mine pays for itself due the travel I do. I wouldn't drive the distances I fly so wouldn't have that work.
Highly recommend it if you are able to justify it.
Cheers
Join Date: Oct 2005
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I can only speak from my personal experience. I have operated aircraft, both HP singles and cabin class twins for business use over many years. IMHO if one didn't love flying so much they would be an absolute dead loss. Tax write offs yep, they're good but by gee they are expensive beasts to own, operate and maintain. In my circumstances....not really justified, but I love flying them. 
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The NBAA is a very effective advocate for business aviation in the US. I note that in one of their surveys the top 100 (IIRC) of the Fortune 500 companies used business aircraft as part of their operations and counted them as essential for their operations.
However, the US is a far more dispersed nation that Australia, especially where its business' are located, which prompts private aircraft use. In Australia the majority of business' are located in the capital or regional cities which are supported by RPT.
I also note that the majority of corporate aircraft in Australia tend to be used as the private runarounds for the CEO. In the US it is not uncommon for sales teams, engineers and other coal face employees to be using the corporate transport.
This is from an on-line article written by John Deakin following his move from airlines to corporate aviation, sadly now curtailed:
I think it demonstrates how corporate aviation should be used.
However, the US is a far more dispersed nation that Australia, especially where its business' are located, which prompts private aircraft use. In Australia the majority of business' are located in the capital or regional cities which are supported by RPT.
I also note that the majority of corporate aircraft in Australia tend to be used as the private runarounds for the CEO. In the US it is not uncommon for sales teams, engineers and other coal face employees to be using the corporate transport.
This is from an on-line article written by John Deakin following his move from airlines to corporate aviation, sadly now curtailed:
While stockholders may be distressed at the thought of high-level executives jetting around the world at their expense, what I've observed has not supported this attitude. On one trip all over Europe, sometimes two moves in a day, the sole two passengers worked hard during every flight. They would clean up on board, and hit the ground running, selling some sort of very large international buy-out. It would have been totally impossible to do any of that, using the airlines. One very impressive frequent customer works with an intensity that is frightening. Food is placed nearby, and if he eats, fine. If not, it quietly goes away. How much productive work do you suppose he'd get done on the airlines?
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We only operate a little piston aircraft but our business couldn't function properly without it! Being able to fly directly to any of our sites and back within a day, whenever needed is invaluable. 4 people Mildura to Muswellbrook and back - RPT and a hire car would take about 10 hours in transit there, then would have to stay overnight and 10 hours transit back the next day. The cheapest nastiest REX and Jet* flights and a hotel would be min $2500, this is a non flexible, non refundable uncomfy seat flight.
Travel in our aircraft roughly 3 1/2 hours each way and 400-450 lts of AVGAS and maybe $50 in taxis, there and back in a day. How much is a day of work X 4 people worth, let alone the savings in flight costs, hotels, hire cars and staff allowances? I would imagine larger companies using jet aircraft would be even better off.
The cost of operating it is completely off set by the time savings and flexibility. I am lucky that my boss isnt stuck in the Aussie mindset of doing things on the cheap and wasting time and energy, it also helps that he loves his aeroplanes and everything aviation!
Travel in our aircraft roughly 3 1/2 hours each way and 400-450 lts of AVGAS and maybe $50 in taxis, there and back in a day. How much is a day of work X 4 people worth, let alone the savings in flight costs, hotels, hire cars and staff allowances? I would imagine larger companies using jet aircraft would be even better off.
The cost of operating it is completely off set by the time savings and flexibility. I am lucky that my boss isnt stuck in the Aussie mindset of doing things on the cheap and wasting time and energy, it also helps that he loves his aeroplanes and everything aviation!
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I could not do what I do without an aeroplane!
The other day we departed at 0700 - landed on a property south of Cloncurry 2.5 hrs later - spent 7 hrs on the ground - did $1M potential business - home by 1900.
vs 12 hrs each way by car plus a night in a motel, or out one day on RPT and back the next plus rental car (if you can get one) plus night in a motel.
BC
The other day we departed at 0700 - landed on a property south of Cloncurry 2.5 hrs later - spent 7 hrs on the ground - did $1M potential business - home by 1900.
vs 12 hrs each way by car plus a night in a motel, or out one day on RPT and back the next plus rental car (if you can get one) plus night in a motel.
BC
no advocacy here.....
That's because we have a "regulator" that doesnt believe in aircraft as a business tool if you want to carry "something" in it that may result in "commerce"... like a tool box or a camera.
eg : PPL electrician off to a remote job in a C172 with materials to be installed for $$s...AFTER the frigging flight. Uh oh!... carrying goods for sale...thats a FCUKING CRIME.! No AOC or CPL... as if it would make any difference to the flight.
WTF has this got to do with CASA..??? Well you might ask! I'll beat the drum again......CASA is a "safety" regulator NOT a commercial regulator, but the CB control freaks have entrenched themselves into exactly that.
'Ultra vires' the CAA Act, noted ad nauseam by the passing parade of ministers,...
but still entrenched in that "buggers muddle" reg 206 (Aya-Toller), recently stated as " bad (illegal ?) law" by the SS. CASA cannot regulate commerce. But does.
Anything done about it, CASA ? Nah.. to busy spreading the falsehood that we're a world leader and dodging the bullets fom ICAO and the FAA.
And if you think they might change their thinking, have a look at recent UAS ops regs... there it is again ..." hire and reward" ie commerce.!
So, you can transport yourself from one place to another... but for Christ's sake don't do anything that might lead to an invoice for something you had in the aeroplane..or produced some revenue after. THAT would be "unsafe".. and commercial.... you criminal you.!
Is it any wonder GA in Oz is NOT like it is in the US.. or many other countries as well.
America thrives on enterpreneurialism... CASA just hates it.
eg : PPL electrician off to a remote job in a C172 with materials to be installed for $$s...AFTER the frigging flight. Uh oh!... carrying goods for sale...thats a FCUKING CRIME.! No AOC or CPL... as if it would make any difference to the flight.
WTF has this got to do with CASA..??? Well you might ask! I'll beat the drum again......CASA is a "safety" regulator NOT a commercial regulator, but the CB control freaks have entrenched themselves into exactly that.
'Ultra vires' the CAA Act, noted ad nauseam by the passing parade of ministers,...
but still entrenched in that "buggers muddle" reg 206 (Aya-Toller), recently stated as " bad (illegal ?) law" by the SS. CASA cannot regulate commerce. But does.
Anything done about it, CASA ? Nah.. to busy spreading the falsehood that we're a world leader and dodging the bullets fom ICAO and the FAA.
And if you think they might change their thinking, have a look at recent UAS ops regs... there it is again ..." hire and reward" ie commerce.!
So, you can transport yourself from one place to another... but for Christ's sake don't do anything that might lead to an invoice for something you had in the aeroplane..or produced some revenue after. THAT would be "unsafe".. and commercial.... you criminal you.!
Is it any wonder GA in Oz is NOT like it is in the US.. or many other countries as well.
America thrives on enterpreneurialism... CASA just hates it.
Join Date: Jul 2010
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That's not right. No point being paranoid or delusional about CASA.
CASA doesn't really seem to care if you are a private pilot and happen to use your plane for business.
Whenever I can I like to fly my plane YMMB to YSBK for business meetings in Sydney. CASA don't interfere with this sort of activity at all.
I mate of mine has a Saratoga and flies around the country installing signs for his business. Once again it's all private with nothing to do with CASA.
It would be different it the planes carried fare paying passengers or did freight operations, but realistically if you are flying around privately and it happens to be transport for your non-aviation business CASA are not involved.
My experience with CASA is that, while sometimes they can be bureaucratic, their motivation seems to be safety standards and if you don't break the rules they leave you alone.
CASA doesn't really seem to care if you are a private pilot and happen to use your plane for business.
Whenever I can I like to fly my plane YMMB to YSBK for business meetings in Sydney. CASA don't interfere with this sort of activity at all.
I mate of mine has a Saratoga and flies around the country installing signs for his business. Once again it's all private with nothing to do with CASA.
It would be different it the planes carried fare paying passengers or did freight operations, but realistically if you are flying around privately and it happens to be transport for your non-aviation business CASA are not involved.
My experience with CASA is that, while sometimes they can be bureaucratic, their motivation seems to be safety standards and if you don't break the rules they leave you alone.
My experience with CASA is that, while sometimes they can be bureaucratic, their motivation seems to be safety standards and if you don't break the rules they leave you alone.
Using a private aircraft for flying between capital cities is (in my opinion) a loser. The airlines are much cheaper and you can have a beer too! However if you have business in regional cities or rural centres it is the best thing and can save hours and hours. If its a destination that requires a flight to a capital city then a connecting regional link it can save days.
And you can carry tools such as a vernier caliper without being branded a criminal.
And you can carry tools such as a vernier caliper without being branded a criminal.
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It's not just about money, it's lifestyle. If I get a couple of nice sunny days it's a nice break flying to Sydney and back.
YMMB to YSBK (return) takes me about 7 hours in the air at $150 an hour. Say $1,000.
It's a two seat plane and a pair of VirginBlue tickets would cost me $500 each, so the cost is about the same.
Also, I live 5km from Moorabbin airport and about 60kn from MMML, so I save a bit of time and travel there.
I'll usually time it so I return on a Saturday so there is no rush, so the return trip is a leisurely cross country cruise. No rush to make a check in or waiting for flights, I depart when I feel like it and if I want to divert somewhere for a meal it's upto me.
It's a justifiable business expense, and like most expenses for the plane my business pays for it.
Life is short, and the pleasure of a long cross country flight on a fine day makes the hard work of my business worth it.
For years my plane was parked in a hangar 100 metres from the regional CASA office. CASA set the rules and if you follow them they are there but you never have much to do with them.
YMMB to YSBK (return) takes me about 7 hours in the air at $150 an hour. Say $1,000.
It's a two seat plane and a pair of VirginBlue tickets would cost me $500 each, so the cost is about the same.
Also, I live 5km from Moorabbin airport and about 60kn from MMML, so I save a bit of time and travel there.
I'll usually time it so I return on a Saturday so there is no rush, so the return trip is a leisurely cross country cruise. No rush to make a check in or waiting for flights, I depart when I feel like it and if I want to divert somewhere for a meal it's upto me.
It's a justifiable business expense, and like most expenses for the plane my business pays for it.
Life is short, and the pleasure of a long cross country flight on a fine day makes the hard work of my business worth it.
For years my plane was parked in a hangar 100 metres from the regional CASA office. CASA set the rules and if you follow them they are there but you never have much to do with them.
I'd be delighted if mine cost as little as $150 / hour in fuel alone.
I'll agree with you about Melbourne - Adelaide. Adelaide is a joy. But Sydney is too hard vs the cost of a ticket on a kero burner.
There are no hire cars at Bankstown, you've got to beg to book a taxi and they still don't turn up if they get a better offer on the way, the controllers are grumpy, there's no accommodation worth staying at nearby and its a cut lunch to drive to where I'm going to be doing business. If I fly to Sydney (typically with meetings in the Southern suburbs) I'll fly into Wollongong instead. It has hire cars, cheaper accommodation, nice restaurants and you get to walk along the beach after tea.
An issue with business flying is when you get up early - fly somewhere - do a day's work - then go to fly back. You've got to manage your fatigue level.
I'll agree with you about Melbourne - Adelaide. Adelaide is a joy. But Sydney is too hard vs the cost of a ticket on a kero burner.
There are no hire cars at Bankstown, you've got to beg to book a taxi and they still don't turn up if they get a better offer on the way, the controllers are grumpy, there's no accommodation worth staying at nearby and its a cut lunch to drive to where I'm going to be doing business. If I fly to Sydney (typically with meetings in the Southern suburbs) I'll fly into Wollongong instead. It has hire cars, cheaper accommodation, nice restaurants and you get to walk along the beach after tea.
An issue with business flying is when you get up early - fly somewhere - do a day's work - then go to fly back. You've got to manage your fatigue level.
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there's no accommodation worth staying at nearby
That place had XXX porn on ALL channels when I stayed there! The operator ended up with a criminal charge after my visit there due to his public broadcasting to all rooms!
