Landing that first job in an Aviation Career
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Landing that first job in an Aviation Career
Hi there,
(this is my 1st post by the way)
I am in year 12 at school at the moment and I am looking at doing the Bachelor of Aviation and Grad Certificate of Aviation at Swinburne Uni (in melbourne).
The course will get me:
250 hours total flying time
100 hours PIC
PPL (a), CPL(a), frozen ATPL (a)
Two type ratings
An Instructor rating.
I've been looking at where to start my career after UNI, I looked at charter companies, flight schools and regional airlines and the few that replied to my e-mails required in excess of 1000 hours or so.
Could you tell me a good place to look, or how you started off or even any other advice would be great. (Preferably places in Adelaide or Melbourne)
Another quick question, are those 'cadet programs'(
) worth it or not?
Thanks heaps for any advice!!!!
(this is my 1st post by the way)
I am in year 12 at school at the moment and I am looking at doing the Bachelor of Aviation and Grad Certificate of Aviation at Swinburne Uni (in melbourne).
The course will get me:
250 hours total flying time
100 hours PIC
PPL (a), CPL(a), frozen ATPL (a)
Two type ratings
An Instructor rating.
I've been looking at where to start my career after UNI, I looked at charter companies, flight schools and regional airlines and the few that replied to my e-mails required in excess of 1000 hours or so.
Could you tell me a good place to look, or how you started off or even any other advice would be great. (Preferably places in Adelaide or Melbourne)
Another quick question, are those 'cadet programs'(
) worth it or not? Thanks heaps for any advice!!!!
Hi,
Do a uni course, but not in Aviation. Do it in something else you're interested in instead. Aviation degrees do not help you get a job as a pilot, but it's great to have an unrelated field of specialisation too, to broaden your life experience.
Get your CPL on the side while you're at uni. Its tough working enough hours to pay for it all, but uni takes a few years anyway.
Once you have a CPL and night rating, go north and get a charter job. You get these jobs by meeting the chief pilot in person, not by emailing them.
Only get an instructor rating if you truly and genuinely want to teach other people. Do not even consider instructing as "hour building".
What are the type ratings going to be on? You will need Single Piston, with endorsements for constant speed propellor and retractable undercarriage. If possible get three or four hours on a Cessna 206 or 210. At this stage, endorsements on any twin are an unnecessary expense. You're only going to fly singles for a while anyway, and when it comes time for a twin, you'll know which twin. Likewise with an instrument rating. Become a proficient VFR pilot with a few hundred hours flying charter (ie, after you get a license) before your instrument rating. It will make the rating easier since you will know how to fly by then.
Likewise with the ATPL exams - leave them until you know a bit more about flying than you'll get with 250 hours. You won't need them for a few years, so wait until you know a bit more about flying, which will make the exams easier.
You will not start your career in Melbourne or Adelaide (unless you honestly and sincerely want a career as an instructor). You will start your career in Kununurra, Horn Island, Fitzroy Crossing, Warburton, Arnhem Land or Lake Eyre. Be open minded about this - this will be the best flying of your life.
Do a uni course, but not in Aviation. Do it in something else you're interested in instead. Aviation degrees do not help you get a job as a pilot, but it's great to have an unrelated field of specialisation too, to broaden your life experience.
Get your CPL on the side while you're at uni. Its tough working enough hours to pay for it all, but uni takes a few years anyway.
Once you have a CPL and night rating, go north and get a charter job. You get these jobs by meeting the chief pilot in person, not by emailing them.
Only get an instructor rating if you truly and genuinely want to teach other people. Do not even consider instructing as "hour building".
What are the type ratings going to be on? You will need Single Piston, with endorsements for constant speed propellor and retractable undercarriage. If possible get three or four hours on a Cessna 206 or 210. At this stage, endorsements on any twin are an unnecessary expense. You're only going to fly singles for a while anyway, and when it comes time for a twin, you'll know which twin. Likewise with an instrument rating. Become a proficient VFR pilot with a few hundred hours flying charter (ie, after you get a license) before your instrument rating. It will make the rating easier since you will know how to fly by then.
Likewise with the ATPL exams - leave them until you know a bit more about flying than you'll get with 250 hours. You won't need them for a few years, so wait until you know a bit more about flying, which will make the exams easier.
You will not start your career in Melbourne or Adelaide (unless you honestly and sincerely want a career as an instructor). You will start your career in Kununurra, Horn Island, Fitzroy Crossing, Warburton, Arnhem Land or Lake Eyre. Be open minded about this - this will be the best flying of your life.
Check your PM luf... otherwise i have to say if your planning to go all the way do your ATPLS before your first job so you dont have to worry bout it further down the track 
Two type ratings!? You must be paying a motsa for that!
Even though it's good to plan ahead, plan for things to be completely different once you graduate so you will have to be adaptable as the industry has changed a bit over the last 5-10 years. (Pilot shortage, GFC, Skilled pilot shortage looming, GFC MK II?)
If you want to stay in a capital city, get in to instructing.
There are so many different ways to get in to the industry and so many different stories you hear from people who got in to some niche part of the industry or just happened to be in the right place at the right time and "jumped the queue" a little bit by getting on to bigger and better aircraft with a basic CPL.
Even though it's good to plan ahead, plan for things to be completely different once you graduate so you will have to be adaptable as the industry has changed a bit over the last 5-10 years. (Pilot shortage, GFC, Skilled pilot shortage looming, GFC MK II?)
If you want to stay in a capital city, get in to instructing.
There are so many different ways to get in to the industry and so many different stories you hear from people who got in to some niche part of the industry or just happened to be in the right place at the right time and "jumped the queue" a little bit by getting on to bigger and better aircraft with a basic CPL.
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Lufc,
Absorb everything Lasiorhinus has to say.
THAT is as accurate as you'll ever hear. He's obviously a real pilot and has taken the time to tell you how it actually is. Most of us can't be bothered trying to talk the truth because it's not what the glorious uninformed and unqualified want to hear and they take no notice anyway.
When you get to a flying school you'll hear the exact opposite. The daddy's little princes will tell you what 'EVERYONE says'. Daddy pays for theirs though and they will be over qualified.
They can't keep up their recency for multi engines and instrument ratings because no one is going to set them loose untried in the aircraft they think they should be flying.
Learning to fly and getting to where you dream of making it is, 'one step at a time' for nearly everybody. There's always an exception or two who were in the right place at the right time or are known by somebody.
I asked an employer of first job seekers what was the best theing a mate could do to get thet first gig and he said pretty much what Lasiorhinus has to say. He did menton aerobatics if there was money left over because if you find yourself in a nasty situation you won't yank the wings off.
Absorb everything Lasiorhinus has to say.
THAT is as accurate as you'll ever hear. He's obviously a real pilot and has taken the time to tell you how it actually is. Most of us can't be bothered trying to talk the truth because it's not what the glorious uninformed and unqualified want to hear and they take no notice anyway.
When you get to a flying school you'll hear the exact opposite. The daddy's little princes will tell you what 'EVERYONE says'. Daddy pays for theirs though and they will be over qualified.
They can't keep up their recency for multi engines and instrument ratings because no one is going to set them loose untried in the aircraft they think they should be flying.
Learning to fly and getting to where you dream of making it is, 'one step at a time' for nearly everybody. There's always an exception or two who were in the right place at the right time or are known by somebody.
I asked an employer of first job seekers what was the best theing a mate could do to get thet first gig and he said pretty much what Lasiorhinus has to say. He did menton aerobatics if there was money left over because if you find yourself in a nasty situation you won't yank the wings off.
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Do a Uni degree by all means but not in aviation. Learn to fly in the real world of aviation not in an isolated and remote institution like OAA.
As a person who has employed numerous pilots I can tell you that holding an aviation degree is pretty well meaningless to most GA employers. Hours and competency are what we look for. Additional skills such accountancy, law, economics, business management, IT are useful to broaden your expertise and a degree in any of them would be useful to your promotion prospects when and if you join an airline but they are not the skills you need to get that all important first job. Flying skills and particularly hours in your log book, appropriate to your age, are what you must have.
If you are serious about being a professional pilot learn to fly first and then do your degree part time or by distance education.
As a person who has employed numerous pilots I can tell you that holding an aviation degree is pretty well meaningless to most GA employers. Hours and competency are what we look for. Additional skills such accountancy, law, economics, business management, IT are useful to broaden your expertise and a degree in any of them would be useful to your promotion prospects when and if you join an airline but they are not the skills you need to get that all important first job. Flying skills and particularly hours in your log book, appropriate to your age, are what you must have.
If you are serious about being a professional pilot learn to fly first and then do your degree part time or by distance education.
Last edited by LexAir; 1st Sep 2011 at 06:56. Reason: Grammar
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Thanks heaps.
You all have given me heaps of helpful info, I am now even more enthusiastic about instructing, but can someone tell me the difference between grade 3 and grade 2 Instructors, and how you get to grade 2.
Or could somone tell me a few companies where either you got your first flying job, or where someone you know did, either in charter or instructing.
Thanks again everyone.
You all have given me heaps of helpful info, I am now even more enthusiastic about instructing, but can someone tell me the difference between grade 3 and grade 2 Instructors, and how you get to grade 2.
Or could somone tell me a few companies where either you got your first flying job, or where someone you know did, either in charter or instructing.
Thanks again everyone.
Last edited by Lufc7294; 2nd Sep 2011 at 03:47. Reason: Another Question, Sorry.
Instructors start out as Grade Three, then with sufficient experience and another flight test can upgrade to Grade Two, and then with further experience and another flight test (plus an exam) can upgrade again to Grade One.
Each offers more privileges than the one before it.
Each offers more privileges than the one before it.
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Thanks heaps.
You all have given me heaps of helpful info, I am now even more enthusiastic about instructing, but can someone tell me the difference between grade 3 and grade 2 Instructors, and how you get to grade 2.
Or could somone tell me a few companies where either you got your first flying job, or where someone you know did, either in charter or instructing.
Thanks again everyone.
You all have given me heaps of helpful info, I am now even more enthusiastic about instructing, but can someone tell me the difference between grade 3 and grade 2 Instructors, and how you get to grade 2.
Or could somone tell me a few companies where either you got your first flying job, or where someone you know did, either in charter or instructing.
Thanks again everyone.
Lufc,
It is advisable in this industry to form one's own opinion (read, do your own research) and not rely too much on others. This is especially so on a nameless, faceless forum where any poster, including myself could be a bus driver and drunkard in real life, but who has an awesome flight sim setup and who is a hub manager for 'Virgin Blue Online Airlines' (Please ignore the last two words). I have 2200 hours (On VATSIM) and have done at least a dozen approaches into the ole Kai Tak (On FS2004, you can see me on you tube, message me for the link).
For the record, I admit to being a drunkard, I deny ever being a bus driver or posting vids of FS2004 on you tube.
My only advice to you is to do as much googling as you can, get as much info as you can in real life and online. Never take anyone's opinion at face value, after all, it is your life and career at stake.
Now, where is the rest of that bottle of Chivas (Is Pruning and Drinking and offence in this nanny state yet? It took me close to half an hour to write this an proof read it).
Straight Home and Don't Spare the Horses.
It is advisable in this industry to form one's own opinion (read, do your own research) and not rely too much on others. This is especially so on a nameless, faceless forum where any poster, including myself could be a bus driver and drunkard in real life, but who has an awesome flight sim setup and who is a hub manager for 'Virgin Blue Online Airlines' (Please ignore the last two words). I have 2200 hours (On VATSIM) and have done at least a dozen approaches into the ole Kai Tak (On FS2004, you can see me on you tube, message me for the link).
For the record, I admit to being a drunkard, I deny ever being a bus driver or posting vids of FS2004 on you tube.
My only advice to you is to do as much googling as you can, get as much info as you can in real life and online. Never take anyone's opinion at face value, after all, it is your life and career at stake.
Now, where is the rest of that bottle of Chivas (Is Pruning and Drinking and offence in this nanny state yet? It took me close to half an hour to write this an proof read it).
Straight Home and Don't Spare the Horses.
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Interesting post...
Lufc,
If I was you, I wouldn't just concentrate on becoming "the airline pilot".
Aviation is a huge industry with all different types of flying. Give as much of it a go as you possibly can. Just taking the instructing work to get the hours is going to skip so much!
You have 40-50yrs of flying ahead of you, whats the rush? Specially now that some GA contract work pays as much or more than airline work.
Lufc,
If I was you, I wouldn't just concentrate on becoming "the airline pilot".
Aviation is a huge industry with all different types of flying. Give as much of it a go as you possibly can. Just taking the instructing work to get the hours is going to skip so much!
You have 40-50yrs of flying ahead of you, whats the rush? Specially now that some GA contract work pays as much or more than airline work.
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Lufc,
Firstly, congratulations on deciding to join the ranks of those who choose to follow a such a fantastic way of life. I call it a way of life, as flying is an insidious and demanding mistress.... it finds it's way into every little nook and cranny of your life! It will infect you, take all your money, and wear you down, but with hard work, persistance, and a few gold cans you will agree wih most of us - its the best job in the world.
As for the best way to go - follow your heart. A lot of advice is given freely on forums such as this, but at the end of the day, there is no right or wrong answer. You have age on your side, and you shouldnt be in a rush to get into the pointy end of a jet. Take your time, learn your craft and enjoy what you do. Be careful of the advice you take, even mine, but you should listen more to guys with grey hair, fat logbooks and hours of stories, not young know it alls. Trust me - you'll get there.
I did things the hard way... every minuite I have spent in an aeroplane has been hard earnt. I did some really terrible jobs to pay for my flying and it took forever, and after 8 years, I am almost where I want to be. I came north, spent the time, listened, learnt and earned every stripe I wear on my shoulders now. Im very very proud of every one of them. I can see the appeal of instructing, and I agree that it is also a great way to go. However, from what I have experianced, you dont want to miss out on what lies in store for you up here. Not only is it fantastic flying, the people you meet up here will not only be colleagues, but friends for life. Cut the ties, leave Mum and Dad, come up and live the dream!
I cannot stress enough - DO YOUR ATPL SUBJECTS ASAP! It is almost imposible to do them when you are working. Do your MECIR when you are getting close to a twin job. Be smart with your money. DONT RUSH, learn your craft, and run your own race.
On another note, it is good to see the encouragement from other posters on this matter. Let me commend you all whole heartedly on that! I was reminded recently of our responsibilities to the younger generation of aspiring aviators the other day when waiting at a small aboriginal community on the Daly river region of the NT. This young 9yo indij kid waited all afternoon after school to meet the pilot of the big shiny aeroplane that was parked at the airport. Watching his eyes light up at being invited to sit in the drivers seat and have his photo taken with me was one of the most rewarding experiances of my career to date. We are looked up to, and it's our responsibility to take the time to inspire.
Happy landings big fella, I wish you all the best for your career. I hope you have as much fun, and enjoy life as much as I do.
Stay safe out there folks!
Blue skies and tailwinds........
Firstly, congratulations on deciding to join the ranks of those who choose to follow a such a fantastic way of life. I call it a way of life, as flying is an insidious and demanding mistress.... it finds it's way into every little nook and cranny of your life! It will infect you, take all your money, and wear you down, but with hard work, persistance, and a few gold cans you will agree wih most of us - its the best job in the world.
As for the best way to go - follow your heart. A lot of advice is given freely on forums such as this, but at the end of the day, there is no right or wrong answer. You have age on your side, and you shouldnt be in a rush to get into the pointy end of a jet. Take your time, learn your craft and enjoy what you do. Be careful of the advice you take, even mine, but you should listen more to guys with grey hair, fat logbooks and hours of stories, not young know it alls. Trust me - you'll get there.
I did things the hard way... every minuite I have spent in an aeroplane has been hard earnt. I did some really terrible jobs to pay for my flying and it took forever, and after 8 years, I am almost where I want to be. I came north, spent the time, listened, learnt and earned every stripe I wear on my shoulders now. Im very very proud of every one of them. I can see the appeal of instructing, and I agree that it is also a great way to go. However, from what I have experianced, you dont want to miss out on what lies in store for you up here. Not only is it fantastic flying, the people you meet up here will not only be colleagues, but friends for life. Cut the ties, leave Mum and Dad, come up and live the dream!
I cannot stress enough - DO YOUR ATPL SUBJECTS ASAP! It is almost imposible to do them when you are working. Do your MECIR when you are getting close to a twin job. Be smart with your money. DONT RUSH, learn your craft, and run your own race.
On another note, it is good to see the encouragement from other posters on this matter. Let me commend you all whole heartedly on that! I was reminded recently of our responsibilities to the younger generation of aspiring aviators the other day when waiting at a small aboriginal community on the Daly river region of the NT. This young 9yo indij kid waited all afternoon after school to meet the pilot of the big shiny aeroplane that was parked at the airport. Watching his eyes light up at being invited to sit in the drivers seat and have his photo taken with me was one of the most rewarding experiances of my career to date. We are looked up to, and it's our responsibility to take the time to inspire.
Happy landings big fella, I wish you all the best for your career. I hope you have as much fun, and enjoy life as much as I do.
Stay safe out there folks!
Blue skies and tailwinds........
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Class 1
Wow, Thanks everyone you've all given me heaps to read and heaps of good constructive advice.
But as I've said ive still got one year of school next year 2012. I plan to go to UNI in 2013, and I will need a class 1 in 2013. I have already spoken to ChaseIt and he said I should get the class 1 now. If I do get it in 2011, how do I renew it at the end of 2012? Does it cost much to renew? Or should I just get it next year?
But as ChasIt said, if I get it now, then I know i'm fit to fly and I don't spend $100k on training only to fail the med.
I've been trying to find all this on casa.gov, but the site says nothing helpful.
Thanks again everybody, I'm seriously grateful.
But as I've said ive still got one year of school next year 2012. I plan to go to UNI in 2013, and I will need a class 1 in 2013. I have already spoken to ChaseIt and he said I should get the class 1 now. If I do get it in 2011, how do I renew it at the end of 2012? Does it cost much to renew? Or should I just get it next year?
But as ChasIt said, if I get it now, then I know i'm fit to fly and I don't spend $100k on training only to fail the med.
I've been trying to find all this on casa.gov, but the site says nothing helpful.
Thanks again everybody, I'm seriously grateful.
Last edited by Lufc7294; 5th Sep 2011 at 05:55. Reason: *
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good idea to do the class1 medical first up, (although you dont need it as a student pilot and even private pilot) as it will give you peace of mind that you are good to go health-wise if your heart is set on being a commercial pilot.
i would suggest limiting the number of nights out at ear-bleed-inducing night clubs
class 1 medical runs out after 1 year but you will be able to fly as a student/ppl for another 3 years under you class2 medical.
a quick google search netted this:
Civil Aviation Safety Authority - Medical certificate requirements
good luck!
i would suggest limiting the number of nights out at ear-bleed-inducing night clubs
class 1 medical runs out after 1 year but you will be able to fly as a student/ppl for another 3 years under you class2 medical.
a quick google search netted this:
Civil Aviation Safety Authority - Medical certificate requirements
good luck!
Last edited by RWD5; 5th Sep 2011 at 10:10.
