Airmanship and a few random queries
The thing that stands out here is that some pilots seem to think they own the home airport they operate from!
No doubt they know the area well. Know all the frequencies and procedures. And read the local notams!
But that doesn't give them the right to be judge, jury and executioner!
It can be frustrating when someone supposedly gets it wrong and creates a problem. But the last thing they need is the current gods gift to aviation giving them a public dressing down.
Offer them help with their baggage. A lift into town perhaps. By then everyone has calmed down and you can chat about the local procedures.
Some pilot's feel under-confident and intimidated when going to unfamilar airports. Despite doing their homework, they still get things wrong!
We all need to be aware of that!
No doubt they know the area well. Know all the frequencies and procedures. And read the local notams!
But that doesn't give them the right to be judge, jury and executioner!
It can be frustrating when someone supposedly gets it wrong and creates a problem. But the last thing they need is the current gods gift to aviation giving them a public dressing down.
Offer them help with their baggage. A lift into town perhaps. By then everyone has calmed down and you can chat about the local procedures.
Some pilot's feel under-confident and intimidated when going to unfamilar airports. Despite doing their homework, they still get things wrong!
We all need to be aware of that!
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Lancair,
Understood - I retract my statement questioning your lack of professionalism. Have a good day out at sunny BNA
.
HomeJames,
Ok, next time I disagree with the wife, instead of trying to have a rational discussion (hard at times, I know), how about I just give her a black eye? That will teach her, that "pwecious widdle pwincess".
I don't retract any comments about treating other pilots with a bit more respect.
Understood - I retract my statement questioning your lack of professionalism. Have a good day out at sunny BNA
.HomeJames,
Ok, next time I disagree with the wife, instead of trying to have a rational discussion (hard at times, I know), how about I just give her a black eye? That will teach her, that "pwecious widdle pwincess".
I don't retract any comments about treating other pilots with a bit more respect.
Well spotted there 'paperboy' I too spotted "Lanc' change of CTAF R text (after I brought it to his attention previously) to 'fit' the ongoing conversation.
It matters none though we all try to save face it's a human thingy but lets not dwell on that I think knows where he sits with all this now.
What's a worrisome trend here though is the behavior of some pilots just like road rage it's becoming ever increasing. Pilots are meant to be more professional than yr average road user & better trained by far but we all make mistakes it's better to educate when safe to do so than make an ever lasting bad impression upon yr fellow aviator.
Over many years I have been cut off in the circuit, had lots of close calls but it's not all about R/T procedures that see & be seen comment applies more so in the circuit than ever these days.
I believe straight in App's are dangerous in most cases & out to be banned.
I'd like a buck for every time I have had a little chat with a pvt pilot & some CPL drivers also at country airports making sure they know better next time after a quiet chat . One time I recall vividly was at WBL some years ago I arrived in the circuit in VMC conditions & had two altercations with the one lighty, details not needed here. Once we where both safely landed I wandered over to this guy accompanied by my paramedic whom looked official (he joined me 'cause my Para was shaking as of this situation ) but when I got to the plane in question the guy whom was Asian on a solo nav was near in tears & shaking looking very upset. He thought I was going to murder him. But after a few minutes chatting in a calm & educational manor he was all smiles & couldn't thank me enough. He mentioned he really didn't know what to do outside of what he had been shown time & time again by his flying school. I guess what I am trying to say here is that education is the key to all this & it starts well before someone turns the key!
Stay alert everybody just 'cause it feels safe doesn't mean you have a clear path to the threshold.
Wmk2
It matters none though we all try to save face it's a human thingy but lets not dwell on that I think knows where he sits with all this now.
What's a worrisome trend here though is the behavior of some pilots just like road rage it's becoming ever increasing. Pilots are meant to be more professional than yr average road user & better trained by far but we all make mistakes it's better to educate when safe to do so than make an ever lasting bad impression upon yr fellow aviator.
Over many years I have been cut off in the circuit, had lots of close calls but it's not all about R/T procedures that see & be seen comment applies more so in the circuit than ever these days.
I believe straight in App's are dangerous in most cases & out to be banned.
I'd like a buck for every time I have had a little chat with a pvt pilot & some CPL drivers also at country airports making sure they know better next time after a quiet chat . One time I recall vividly was at WBL some years ago I arrived in the circuit in VMC conditions & had two altercations with the one lighty, details not needed here. Once we where both safely landed I wandered over to this guy accompanied by my paramedic whom looked official (he joined me 'cause my Para was shaking as of this situation ) but when I got to the plane in question the guy whom was Asian on a solo nav was near in tears & shaking looking very upset. He thought I was going to murder him. But after a few minutes chatting in a calm & educational manor he was all smiles & couldn't thank me enough. He mentioned he really didn't know what to do outside of what he had been shown time & time again by his flying school. I guess what I am trying to say here is that education is the key to all this & it starts well before someone turns the key!
Stay alert everybody just 'cause it feels safe doesn't mean you have a clear path to the threshold.
Wmk2
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Agree with Wally. Everyone makes mistakes, including aviation god jump pilots, but is the best way to get the message across really to carry on like a child with abuse and a tantrum? People tend to respond better to suggestions and advice when you speak to them in a calm, reasonable manner, and you're more likely to get the effective result you're wanting by doing so (that is, the PPL doing the right thing next time!)
ThePaperBoy,
Using your logic, I am surprised you are capable of a rational thought process, let alone discussion.
This argument is so deftly lacking in logic it is laughable. Domestic violence is somehow linked to a lack of airmanship? Smooth one there sport, an attempt to bring an emotive issue like that in, to cloud the arguments further.
Speaking of emotive issues, let's take another look at the things that NIK320 said:
Of course he was!
I'll bet he did!
Full bottle too I'll bet!
All of which is quite inflammatory language and is only one side of the story.
Lancair actually wants to tell his side of the story but it would seem that none of you want a bar of it. By the sounds of it, the entire fly away group displayed their incredible professionalism and airmanship by parking on NOTAMed out grass. Charming. You guys must be right cos Lancair is a meatbomber and we all know they are dodgy, rule breaking cowboys that eat baby dolphins raw for breakfast.
I will re-iterate that this particular situation looks a great deal like BRUISED PRIDE = INDIGNATION = CHARACTER ASSASSINATION.
Lancair,
If you remember their rego, put in a report about them and get a copy of the CTAF tapes. In addition, call up the groundskeeper. I'm sure he'd be happy to send them the bill for any damage caused to the grassed areas. It is only then that they will see that a stern talking to was getting off lightly.
Straight Home and don't spare the horses.
Using your logic, I am surprised you are capable of a rational thought process, let alone discussion.
Ok, next time I disagree with the wife, instead of trying to have a rational discussion (hard at times, I know), how about I just give her a black eye? That will teach her, that "pwecious widdle pwincess".
Speaking of emotive issues, let's take another look at the things that NIK320 said:
On the ground however the jump pilot was out of his aircraft almost before the prop stopped spinning
ran across the ramp
opened the ajar door and started laying into him.
All of which is quite inflammatory language and is only one side of the story.
Lancair actually wants to tell his side of the story but it would seem that none of you want a bar of it. By the sounds of it, the entire fly away group displayed their incredible professionalism and airmanship by parking on NOTAMed out grass. Charming. You guys must be right cos Lancair is a meatbomber and we all know they are dodgy, rule breaking cowboys that eat baby dolphins raw for breakfast.
I will re-iterate that this particular situation looks a great deal like BRUISED PRIDE = INDIGNATION = CHARACTER ASSASSINATION.
Lancair,
If you remember their rego, put in a report about them and get a copy of the CTAF tapes. In addition, call up the groundskeeper. I'm sure he'd be happy to send them the bill for any damage caused to the grassed areas. It is only then that they will see that a stern talking to was getting off lightly.
Straight Home and don't spare the horses.
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Again I stress, I did not throw a tantrum, did not belittle him or call him names. I didnt touch him or his aircraft. It wasnt because I was cut off on approach that I approached him, that was the start. I approached because of the lack of radio use when I had just been dropping skydivers !
I edit my posts for spelling etc and had been away from the PC for a bit when I returned, finished my editing then posted, after seeing comments that now didnt make sense I edited my posts. Im human too.
As Ive also said, I AM NO SKY GOD, I dont think I own the local airport, I dont think I know more than everyone else, thats the young dicks straight of school who come here and fly skydivers that are like that. I may have fitted the bill about 20yrs ago.
I do remember the rego, but Im not going to file a report, hopefully he has learnt from this, as I have.
As I said before, Ill now be taking more notice of exactly how many "paints" BNE CTR observe and be 100% sure Ive spoken to all the aircraft before allowing a drop to proceed. These guys and girls jumping are my mates too. BUT whether they are mates or not, I dont EVER want an accident out of my aeroplane due to me or my lack of actions. This has scared me back to the reality of what we do and how many people one incident could affect.
Andrew
BTW, To the original poster about the incident, is that Bonanza VH-RMM available for pvt hire from somewhere in Redcliffe ? I regularly fly to Cobar and back and am looking for something faster, more economical per mile, than the jump ship.
I edit my posts for spelling etc and had been away from the PC for a bit when I returned, finished my editing then posted, after seeing comments that now didnt make sense I edited my posts. Im human too.
As Ive also said, I AM NO SKY GOD, I dont think I own the local airport, I dont think I know more than everyone else, thats the young dicks straight of school who come here and fly skydivers that are like that. I may have fitted the bill about 20yrs ago.
I do remember the rego, but Im not going to file a report, hopefully he has learnt from this, as I have.
As I said before, Ill now be taking more notice of exactly how many "paints" BNE CTR observe and be 100% sure Ive spoken to all the aircraft before allowing a drop to proceed. These guys and girls jumping are my mates too. BUT whether they are mates or not, I dont EVER want an accident out of my aeroplane due to me or my lack of actions. This has scared me back to the reality of what we do and how many people one incident could affect.
Andrew
BTW, To the original poster about the incident, is that Bonanza VH-RMM available for pvt hire from somewhere in Redcliffe ? I regularly fly to Cobar and back and am looking for something faster, more economical per mile, than the jump ship.
Last edited by Lancair70; 2nd Aug 2011 at 04:20.
...........yr right "XXX" I should have said .....of Asian appearance, (my mistake) but I think we all get the point meaning that he 'may' not have had a good grasp of the language/situation at hand
This whole thread is a great opportunity for EVERYONE to learn so lets keep is civilized hey before my real good mates (the Mods) break their own pad lock record
Wmk2
This whole thread is a great opportunity for EVERYONE to learn so lets keep is civilized hey
before my real good mates (the Mods) break their own pad lock record Wmk2
Keep your shirts on fellas. Why can't there be more people like Wal out there. I remember on my second or third solo I caused the air ambo to go around (similar to the original post - I was doing ccts on the short grass strip into wind converging with the ambos who were using the main runway). Got a bit close for their comfort so they went around. They weren't med 1 but I was still highly embarrassed and was ready to get a right ear bashing on the ground. Instead the pilot came over and had a chat to me, gave me a few pointers and then gave me a tour of the hangar and the aircraft. I got a lot out of that, and have never cut anyone off since! What a gentleman
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Just to clarify if he had the comms as everyone is saying, he would have been fully aware of all the other traffic (including the meatbombs) and under the blind assumption everyone knew he was there. Correct frequency wrong comm means he can hear you, you can't hear him. Unless he asks someone else their ETA/exact position etc he would have no idea no one can hear him. Remember most PPL's are **** scared to do anything beyond the norm and most have not been taught to question fellow aviators or speak up if in trouble for fear of ridicule. Some are of the opinion that CPL's are the kings and their men so get out of their way, ATC are omnipotent and can see all and CASA are the gods that enforce the law by wielding an indiscriminate sabre of justice!
If he's hearing your calls and assuming you can hear his he probably just hoped you'd work it out and he wouldn't get in the way since you said nothing to him.
If he's hearing your calls and assuming you can hear his he probably just hoped you'd work it out and he wouldn't get in the way since you said nothing to him.
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I never met the guy until that day and I agree flying into a cert aerodrome with your radio turned off is a hazard and he deserved a talking to, nor am I objecting to your airborne actions. Its the way you came straight under his wing that caused the concern. At least let him out of the aircraft before starting an argument.
It was seen as a similar act to getting out of your car at a red light to give another driver a stern talking to.
Apart from that I agreed with the rest of it including the parking choice. I was ignored on arrival acting as a pax at that point hence we ended up there. In hindsight I had a set of brakes at my feet and should have used them but didn't.
It was seen as a similar act to getting out of your car at a red light to give another driver a stern talking to.
Apart from that I agreed with the rest of it including the parking choice. I was ignored on arrival acting as a pax at that point hence we ended up there. In hindsight I had a set of brakes at my feet and should have used them but didn't.
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HomeJames,
Have a think and you'll realise all along my argument has been that there's no need for aggression to solve conflict in the everyday lives we take part of. My example was deliberately over the top (of course there's no link between airmanship and domestic violence!) in response to your statements which appeared to endorse aggression (don't read that as meaning domestic violence), including:
Anyway, let's lay off one another to prevent the character assassination you speak of (have a last dig at me if you want to call it even) and thread drift.
Have a think and you'll realise all along my argument has been that there's no need for aggression to solve conflict in the everyday lives we take part of. My example was deliberately over the top (of course there's no link between airmanship and domestic violence!) in response to your statements which appeared to endorse aggression (don't read that as meaning domestic violence), including:
Chances are he will remember that big mean jump pilot in future whenever he has more than one Comm. Pwecious widdle pwincess.
Next time take a deep breath before telling another pilot off.
He needed to hear the danger he had placed several people in. If he heard it in a strong yet non abusive manner, then good. He needs to suck it up.
If too many people stay silent, and dont tell or "dob" in other pilots, then who knows how big the holes get in the "swiss cheese" over time..
I bet this pilot will never again transmit on the wrong freq..
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He needed to hear the danger he had placed several people in.
Radios fail, pilots use the wrong frequency, volumes are turned down etc etc, get over that, fly your aircraft and look out the windows.
The 182 pilot saw the 172, did an orbit and landed, I dont see an issue!
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VH-XXX, the outcome was good in the end, to that point you are right.
I dont know how to do that quote thing for the relevant posts. Go back and re-read my posts and you'll see.
Ive also learnt from this and wont make the same mistake that has such dire potential.
Andrew
I dont know how to do that quote thing for the relevant posts. Go back and re-read my posts and you'll see.
Ive also learnt from this and wont make the same mistake that has such dire potential.
Andrew
(lack of radio use, intentional or not, notwithstanding)
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b_sta he did give way to the 172.
I think the danger bit is more the possibility the 172 could have flown a football field circuit, one of the jumpers could have drifted slightly to close to the field and both ending up in the same spot of sky.
Lancair I sent you a PM
Nothing nasty
I think the danger bit is more the possibility the 172 could have flown a football field circuit, one of the jumpers could have drifted slightly to close to the field and both ending up in the same spot of sky.
BTW, To the original poster about the incident, is that Bonanza VH-RMM available for pvt hire from somewhere in Redcliffe ? I regularly fly to Cobar and back and am looking for something faster, more economical per mile, than the jump ship.
Nothing nasty
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Airmanship is when Jaba delivered dozens of rolls of toilet paper to the flood victims in Qld and when a chap from my local field flew his mate 3 hours return by Chieftain to a remote island on a mercy mission to try and save his partners sick dog.
