PNG Work & Rest rules (Tour Duty Pilot)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Down Under
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PNG Work & Rest rules (Tour Duty Pilot)
Just trying to work out the pro's & con's of the Work & Rest rules for Papua New guinea. The basic one is straight forward enough Stick times, Duty times, Rest periods, Day off, etc, but there is another category called a "Tour Duty Pilot" of which there are two types, A & B.
Type A, for example, means a Max of 28 days availability for duty followed by MIn 21 days free of duty.
But there doesn't seem to be the same W&R rules within that Type A category. Can he/she, for example work 28 days straight, or do you still have 1 off in 7 ? What else, if anything, is also different in this type of category ?
Can anybody enlighten me on this ? A bit of an explanation or example would be appreciated.
Thanks,
'ooiz...'
Type A, for example, means a Max of 28 days availability for duty followed by MIn 21 days free of duty.
But there doesn't seem to be the same W&R rules within that Type A category. Can he/she, for example work 28 days straight, or do you still have 1 off in 7 ? What else, if anything, is also different in this type of category ?
Can anybody enlighten me on this ? A bit of an explanation or example would be appreciated.
Thanks,
'ooiz...'
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: 2000
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A Fixed wing equal time tour pilot can't work on his 7th day where as a equal time chopper pilot can work 28 days straight as long as he doesn't bust flight and duty times during his 28 day tour. Other stimulating details from PNG CAR Part 122 Subpart E include:
Flight hours FW Tour Pilot:
8 hours in a day. (Can be extended.)
35 hours in 7 consecutive days.
120 hours in any 28 consecutive days.
900 hours in 365 days.
Duty Time:
11 hours in a day.
60 hours in 7 days.
110 hours in 14 days.
These are the bare bones but if you need more detail just go to Part 122 Subpart E.
Flight hours FW Tour Pilot:
8 hours in a day. (Can be extended.)
35 hours in 7 consecutive days.
120 hours in any 28 consecutive days.
900 hours in 365 days.
Duty Time:
11 hours in a day.
60 hours in 7 days.
110 hours in 14 days.
These are the bare bones but if you need more detail just go to Part 122 Subpart E.
I think you might be incorrect KIller about the 7th day off requirement. Have a look at Part 122.207 para b.
An FW equal time tour pilot can legaly fly 28 days straight like the chopper pilots provided that the pilot meets the requirements of the above mentioned rule.
An FW equal time tour pilot can legaly fly 28 days straight like the chopper pilots provided that the pilot meets the requirements of the above mentioned rule.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: 2000
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I bow to your superior knowledge WW. I will be all over it when asked a flight and duty question on my next base check. I wonder why we are not asked to fly seven days in a row then?
(b) The certificate holder shall ensure that, during any seven consecutive day period, a pilot has at least one rest period between 10 pm and 6 am or between 9 pm and 5 am on two consecutive nights.
(b) The certificate holder shall ensure that, during any seven consecutive day period, a pilot has at least one rest period between 10 pm and 6 am or between 9 pm and 5 am on two consecutive nights.
I wonder why we are not asked to fly seven days in a row then?
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: S.H.
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MachTwelve,
Mat always used the rules as they were written!
Great bloke.
Anyway, the difference between 122.105 and 122.207 relies on the use of the word continuous as you infer. In 122.105 the continuous rest period between 10PM and 6AM on two consecutive nights every 7 days = a 24 hour rest, ie., one day off (so you can go to church, as troppo suggests).
The 'omission' of a requirement for the rest period to be continuous between two consecutive nights in 122.207 means that you can work every day in 7 consecutive days. So, 'yes' it was intended.
Mat always used the rules as they were written!
Great bloke.
Anyway, the difference between 122.105 and 122.207 relies on the use of the word continuous as you infer. In 122.105 the continuous rest period between 10PM and 6AM on two consecutive nights every 7 days = a 24 hour rest, ie., one day off (so you can go to church, as troppo suggests).
The 'omission' of a requirement for the rest period to be continuous between two consecutive nights in 122.207 means that you can work every day in 7 consecutive days. So, 'yes' it was intended.
Gents,
I'm a little slow and a little rusty on airlaw.
So in summary a "Tour A" pilot cannot fly 28 days straight
where as a "Tour B" can?
Lets leave chopper pilots out of this as they don't know how to read
hence I get along with them very well. 
Killer Loop good luck with the base check and being aallll over it like a rash on a big toe
I'm a little slow and a little rusty on airlaw.
So in summary a "Tour A" pilot cannot fly 28 days straight
where as a "Tour B" can?Lets leave chopper pilots out of this as they don't know how to read
hence I get along with them very well. Killer Loop good luck with the base check and being aallll over it like a rash on a big toe
Last edited by geeup; 9th Jul 2011 at 02:40.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: 2000
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So in summary a "Tour A" pilot can not fly 28 days straight where as a "Tour B" cannot?
I guess there is no problems from a legal perspective if tour pilots have the 7th day off,however from an economical perspective it isn't profitable to have usable pilots off duty.
Maybe some operators have mis-interporated the rule ? This very subject was bought up at a recent CAA audit with the company I work for. I also was under the same impression as you KL about the 7th day off,however after consultation with the CAA blokes it become evident from the rule that 7th days are “NOT” required to be free of all duty.
Dwyer may have been weird sometimes,however he wasn't stupid,he knew the meaning of this rule !
Maybe some operators have mis-interporated the rule ? This very subject was bought up at a recent CAA audit with the company I work for. I also was under the same impression as you KL about the 7th day off,however after consultation with the CAA blokes it become evident from the rule that 7th days are “NOT” required to be free of all duty.
Dwyer may have been weird sometimes,however he wasn't stupid,he knew the meaning of this rule !
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: 2000
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So my question still stands WW. Why do we get the 7th day off every time? I understand that it makes sense from a safety perspective to give someone the day off to rest once a week. But every now and again rostering will get a bit tight or something unexpected will come up yet our ops will still observe the whole 7th day thing religously. No one has ever called me up and said "Look we know it's your seventh day and normally we encourage you to rest but we have this unexpected charter in your area. Since you are the only crew up there can you please help us out? We will get another crew up there tomorrow and you can have a day free from duty then. Please?" I'm just surprised it has not happened at least once.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: S.H.
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Killer Loop,
Maybe your boss(es) reckon you need it to go to church like troppo's suggesting? 
WW's more than likely right about 'misinterpretation' of the rule I think, so I'd shut-up about it (the day off, that is) RFN (right fcuking now) and 'go with the flow' if I was you!
So my question still stands WW. Why do we get the 7th day off every time?
WW's more than likely right about 'misinterpretation' of the rule I think, so I'd shut-up about it (the day off, that is) RFN (right fcuking now) and 'go with the flow' if I was you!
Now that I have a bit of support ! Stop winging you lazy c***ts and get to work !
Hello fellas, get real you are only productive for 6 months and you are all on full-time wages ! If you were paid by the flight hour I'm sure most of you guys would work a lot harder.
If you want a shoulder to cry on I can recommend a few people !
Hello fellas, get real you are only productive for 6 months and you are all on full-time wages ! If you were paid by the flight hour I'm sure most of you guys would work a lot harder.
If you want a shoulder to cry on I can recommend a few people !
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Down Under
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the feedback guys. For the Type A Tour Pilot it seems he can work 28 days straight but then must have 21 days off, so 21 'off' out of a total of 49. Whereas a regular crew schedule requires 1 day 'off' in 7 = 7 in 49. So the Type A Tour pilot gets more days 'off', but he is more productive during his days 'on'. Annual limit is the same, but allowed up to 120hrs in the 28 'on' days (v's 100 per 30) and 35 hrs in 7 days (v's 30 in 7). Gets interesting when trying to figure out the pro's and con's of which type of schedule works best for a person over say a 12 month period. The min 21 days 'off' sounds nice, but I wonder how one feels after working 28 days straight ? Hmmm. All hypothetical at the moment but an interesting scenario.
Ooiz....
Ooiz....
... it works better that way 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: on the edge
Posts: 823
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cos on a Sunday the heathens go to church to beg forgiveness for their lying n thievin
for the previous week so they can start afresh on the Monday
for the previous week so they can start afresh on the Monday
Silly Old Git
Pfffttt.... In my day yer worked 7 days for two bloody years straight before you got a break!
Rocky the GKA bag buster would often trawl the Sporty looking for a not too badly pissed pilot for a quick Chimbu in the afternoon
God help us we had a AFAP meeting once. Junior had his spies report who had attended then flew around and sacked everybody
Tell that to the young ones today and they don't believe you
Rocky the GKA bag buster would often trawl the Sporty looking for a not too badly pissed pilot for a quick Chimbu in the afternoon
God help us we had a AFAP meeting once. Junior had his spies report who had attended then flew around and sacked everybody
Tell that to the young ones today and they don't believe you
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 862
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just get a SDA Chief Pilot who is uncontactable on 'his' sabbath, and the rest of you will be garanteed work all week long. AVIATION is the best religion anyway, have been going to airports on Sundays, and others 'Holy Days', since starting..
