RAA Increased Height, Weight and Water
all of a sudden seeing an idiot doing aerobatics where you least expect them.
..no way they can keep an eye out for you...
Reminds me of the last aerobatic contest - we had people on the ground specifically watching for other traffic as the contest was held overhead an airfield. NOTAM so it would have been expected. A certified airfield so radio required.
We certainly didn't expect that Jabiru flying though no-radio. I'm not going to call him an idiot though.
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Jabby, my problem isn't so much with the statement that there are many RAA pilots out there not minding the rules as much as they should.
My problem is with the implied assumption that private flyers with nothing more than minimum hours PPL training had significantly better training and are any better at applying said training.
My problem is with the implied assumption that private flyers with nothing more than minimum hours PPL training had significantly better training and are any better at applying said training.
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The GA guys are trained to a much higher standard than the RA guys / gals.
End of story, I dont know why Baswell is so hell bent on proving that not to be the case? He is just coming off as another cocky RA "pilot"? who thinks he is amazing.
Idiot.
Also Baswell, no one gives a Fu#k what you problem is. Why don't you go get at least a PPl so you can see for yourself the difference in training that both organizations provide.
Don't forget that you don't know what you don't know.
End of story, I dont know why Baswell is so hell bent on proving that not to be the case? He is just coming off as another cocky RA "pilot"? who thinks he is amazing.
Idiot.
Also Baswell, no one gives a Fu#k what you problem is. Why don't you go get at least a PPl so you can see for yourself the difference in training that both organizations provide.
Don't forget that you don't know what you don't know.
Last edited by UnaMas; 10th May 2011 at 11:02. Reason: Forgot something.
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Oh dear, I haven't seen language and passion like that since the infamous RA-Aus thread a few weeks back that saw complaints from certain persons find their way all the way to the UK, home of PPRuNe.
There is far more to worry about than RA-Aus aircraft over 5,000ft and that "worry" was announced today.
There is far more to worry about than RA-Aus aircraft over 5,000ft and that "worry" was announced today.
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UnaBoy, you sound like a typical integrated CPL course CPL who went straight to work and doesn't mingle with the PPL crowds at the weekend fly-ins.
Don't forget that you don't know about people what you don't know about people.
Now take your foot out of your mouth.
(See how many managed to say all that without profanity or calling people names?)
Don't forget that you don't know about people what you don't know about people.
Now take your foot out of your mouth.
(See how many managed to say all that without profanity or calling people names?)
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onemore, you misread. I am not saying who is better than who; I am saying we're all as bad as each other. I am probably the only one not pretending to be better than anyone else and I get accused of just that.
Sigh.
Sigh.
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There is far more to worry about than RA-Aus aircraft over 5,000ft and that "worry" was announced today.
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Bas,
I will save my dummy spitting for the Irrational Illogical Idiot, but to answer your more polite response........
When you refer to a bare minimum hours PPL I can only assume you mean a GFPT, if so that is similar to a basic RAA, and the issues at hand are not dealt with at this stage. You are 100% correct.
Once at PPL with no airspace restictions the level of understanding is far greater. I might add that the high concentration of RAA activity in my part of the world is actually above average, and the schools are run along the GA PPL syllabus and run by folk who are ATPL ex airline and GA folk. So the result is better. But this is the most recent graduates. Before this, say 5-15 years before the training to that standard did not exist. I see the result of this on a weekly basis. As do others.
If you want a classic example, have a look at this http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/3412453/aws11mar2011.pdf and then refer to 201101218. Looks simple enough on the face of it, maybe a stray into the edge of CTR? Well no... in fact it started as several serious penetrations of CTA, and with dozens of attempts by BNE RAD to halt it from ging further but the a/c managed to then punch through BN CTR at 4 miles from the VOR, and into the wake turbulence zone of a B763.....and kept on trucking. Because I knew who and how this all happened, being so self serving as T28 would have you believe I knew that ATC had the radar tapes and would nail his ar$e, I convinced the RAA pilot to file a REPCON, which he did, hence the detail in the weekly summary. But as a result they are less likely to nail nail his butt so hard because he stuck his hand up. So what was his appropriate freq? yep 123.45MHZ. What is worse he did not even turn on his G296 because he is daunted by it.
So yes some folk in very much high performance RAA machines as FRANK points out do get around and need a lot more education. This guy did not even believe it was him until I showed him the radar tracks.
This level of education is generally administered at the PPL/CPL level. It is not always now, and more rarely previously supplied at the RAA and old AUF level.
The morons do not know what they do not know, and I am referring to the morons I am about to deal with in the next part of this post, not the RAA folk.
By the way have you read the article yet? I am serious, read this and get back to me. I doubt the stupid joker of a T28D even has the article as he is probably not a member of RAA. I bet he now has Frank scanning it and emailing it to him though, and if not he should ask. Maybe then the serious side of this debate will be understood.
I say again...........RAA getting these new freedoms is a great thing. But if HF courses were mandatory, some expanded VFR airmanship training applicable to these ops should be applied.
T28D...what a joke....you of all people...Pot/Kettle 
you can't add anything of value to the conversation but when your little mate is caught out telling some fanciful stories you come up with that. Well cupcake my feelings are so shattered 
.
Well lets look at some definitions of the english language shall we.
Ahhhhh no I am not serving my interests over those of others one bit, in fact I am serving the interests of ALL OTHERS before mine. If you care to read back a bit I have said I am all in favour of this extended freedom, however if HF courses were considered mandatory training this should be even more so. FOR EVERYONES BENEFIT.
What you do not seem to understand is that I would have to prove I have the training (although not dificult) that I would already qualify, or just have to do the course, pass the test or whatever they deemed necessary. I did their HF course too. Why? because at times I fly my Airline Pilot mates RAA machine. But you do not seem to understand that others, many in fact in RAA do not have that training or background.
You T28D are more than qualified, I know, but I realise you do not understand what you do not know. These guys need on the whole a greater level of training than they already posess.
Again you are found wanting ...........
So next time think twice before slagging me, otherwise I might arc up like others have done in the past, and then you will want to sue somebody for telling the truth. Unless of course I am mistaking you for some other w@nker.
J
I will save my dummy spitting for the Irrational Illogical Idiot, but to answer your more polite response........
Jabby, my problem isn't so much with the statement that there are many RAA pilots out there not minding the rules as much as they should.
My problem is with the implied assumption that private flyers with nothing more than minimum hours PPL training had significantly better training and are any better at applying said training.
My problem is with the implied assumption that private flyers with nothing more than minimum hours PPL training had significantly better training and are any better at applying said training.
Once at PPL with no airspace restictions the level of understanding is far greater. I might add that the high concentration of RAA activity in my part of the world is actually above average, and the schools are run along the GA PPL syllabus and run by folk who are ATPL ex airline and GA folk. So the result is better. But this is the most recent graduates. Before this, say 5-15 years before the training to that standard did not exist. I see the result of this on a weekly basis. As do others.
If you want a classic example, have a look at this http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/3412453/aws11mar2011.pdf and then refer to 201101218. Looks simple enough on the face of it, maybe a stray into the edge of CTR? Well no... in fact it started as several serious penetrations of CTA, and with dozens of attempts by BNE RAD to halt it from ging further but the a/c managed to then punch through BN CTR at 4 miles from the VOR, and into the wake turbulence zone of a B763.....and kept on trucking. Because I knew who and how this all happened, being so self serving as T28 would have you believe I knew that ATC had the radar tapes and would nail his ar$e, I convinced the RAA pilot to file a REPCON, which he did, hence the detail in the weekly summary. But as a result they are less likely to nail nail his butt so hard because he stuck his hand up. So what was his appropriate freq? yep 123.45MHZ. What is worse he did not even turn on his G296 because he is daunted by it.
So yes some folk in very much high performance RAA machines as FRANK points out do get around and need a lot more education. This guy did not even believe it was him until I showed him the radar tracks.This level of education is generally administered at the PPL/CPL level. It is not always now, and more rarely previously supplied at the RAA and old AUF level.
The morons do not know what they do not know, and I am referring to the morons I am about to deal with in the next part of this post, not the RAA folk.
By the way have you read the article yet? I am serious, read this and get back to me. I doubt the stupid joker of a T28D even has the article as he is probably not a member of RAA. I bet he now has Frank scanning it and emailing it to him though, and if not he should ask. Maybe then the serious side of this debate will be understood.
I say again...........RAA getting these new freedoms is a great thing. But if HF courses were mandatory, some expanded VFR airmanship training applicable to these ops should be applied.
Jaba self serving crud, geez you are the one !!!!!
you can't add anything of value to the conversation but when your little mate is caught out telling some fanciful stories you come up with that. Well cupcake my feelings are so shattered . Well lets look at some definitions of the english language shall we.
Definition of SELF-SERVING
: serving one's own interests often in disregard of the truth or the interests of others
: serving one's own interests often in disregard of the truth or the interests of others
What you do not seem to understand is that I would have to prove I have the training (although not dificult) that I would already qualify, or just have to do the course, pass the test or whatever they deemed necessary. I did their HF course too. Why? because at times I fly my Airline Pilot mates RAA machine. But you do not seem to understand that others, many in fact in RAA do not have that training or background.
You T28D are more than qualified, I know, but I realise you do not understand what you do not know. These guys need on the whole a greater level of training than they already posess.
Again you are found wanting ...........
So next time think twice before slagging me, otherwise I might arc up like others have done in the past, and then you will want to sue somebody for telling the truth. Unless of course I am mistaking you for some other w@nker.J
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Jaba, I think you have a good point and I think this should happen.
Having flown both GA and RAA, I think there are the good, bad and hopeless on both side of the divide, so I would like to see regular ground training/study/testing applied also to flyers who clock up less than 10 hours per week, maybe even six monthly.
My most memorable events were with PPL pilots including:
One gentleman from the sub continent practicing at a country airfield who did five circuits, not one the same, on one radio call, and departed the circuit illegally with no departure call.
The guy I met in my windscreen who called downwind when he was coming in upwind
The classic where Sydney called "Tiger Moth ABC, confirm operations normal"
Back came the comment "We're lost" and in answer to queries as to whether he could see certain roads "Yes", "which way did you say", "alright", "we'll follow that road" etc.
VH-XXX/OCTAgone
This is a thread which has a reasonable chance of doing a lot of good.
I didn't miss the opportunity you took to once again attack Ian Baker
Appealing for a "decent" candidate implies that he is not decent, so you have already crossed the line.
Having flown both GA and RAA, I think there are the good, bad and hopeless on both side of the divide, so I would like to see regular ground training/study/testing applied also to flyers who clock up less than 10 hours per week, maybe even six monthly.
My most memorable events were with PPL pilots including:
One gentleman from the sub continent practicing at a country airfield who did five circuits, not one the same, on one radio call, and departed the circuit illegally with no departure call.
The guy I met in my windscreen who called downwind when he was coming in upwind
The classic where Sydney called "Tiger Moth ABC, confirm operations normal"
Back came the comment "We're lost" and in answer to queries as to whether he could see certain roads "Yes", "which way did you say", "alright", "we'll follow that road" etc.
VH-XXX/OCTAgone
This is a thread which has a reasonable chance of doing a lot of good.
I didn't miss the opportunity you took to once again attack Ian Baker
Appealing for a "decent" candidate implies that he is not decent, so you have already crossed the line.
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I was not referring to board candidates. EOS. Another announcement was made yesterday but it will take a little while to filter through. Did notice though that said individual is running again even though he said he wouldn't.
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10 hours a week 
are you taking the p1$$ here? If not you better book me in too! Some weeks I do some not
Yep it's all over the place, but radio calls are not so much the topic here. Having said that I have heard a lot of ..... Climbing FLxxx pending clearance
Now where do they learn that?
So I gather nobody has done any bedtime raa mag reading?
are you taking the p1$$ here? If not you better book me in too! Some weeks I do some notYep it's all over the place, but radio calls are not so much the topic here. Having said that I have heard a lot of ..... Climbing FLxxx pending clearance
Now where do they learn that?
So I gather nobody has done any bedtime raa mag reading?
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Jabby, I have scanned the article. The obvious stand out question is: does this guy have a PPL that would allow him to fly where he did? That doesn't seem to be answered in the article.
As for your VCA story, that is a bad one, but I doubt it is exclusive to RA pilots or epidemic among them. Many RA schools are just outside/under CTA, so the average RA pilot would be trained in how to read a map and avoid it.
The "daunting gps" story again is not RA exclusive; I myself was witness to a local CPL and instructor being lost in marginal conditions over the hills and eventually calling up and asking for a vector, even though there was a perfectly good GPS in the aircraft that was not being used due to unfamiliarity.
But at least we can agree on that there are lots of bad apples in both camps!
So does a PPL have more knowledge than a well trained RA-aus pilot? I am not convinced; having done both sets of theory exams, I don't spot much difference and whatever may be harder on the CASA exams is probably off-set by the higher pass mark (80%) required for the RA exams.
It all comes down to airmanship; it's not about what you know, it's how you use it. And I think I have listed my (ever growing) list of Stupid Pilot Tricks by PPLs I have been witness to enough times on these and other forums by now!
As for your VCA story, that is a bad one, but I doubt it is exclusive to RA pilots or epidemic among them. Many RA schools are just outside/under CTA, so the average RA pilot would be trained in how to read a map and avoid it.
The "daunting gps" story again is not RA exclusive; I myself was witness to a local CPL and instructor being lost in marginal conditions over the hills and eventually calling up and asking for a vector, even though there was a perfectly good GPS in the aircraft that was not being used due to unfamiliarity.
But at least we can agree on that there are lots of bad apples in both camps!
So does a PPL have more knowledge than a well trained RA-aus pilot? I am not convinced; having done both sets of theory exams, I don't spot much difference and whatever may be harder on the CASA exams is probably off-set by the higher pass mark (80%) required for the RA exams.
It all comes down to airmanship; it's not about what you know, it's how you use it. And I think I have listed my (ever growing) list of Stupid Pilot Tricks by PPLs I have been witness to enough times on these and other forums by now!
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Entertaining link there thanks Jaba
!! ouch!
The pilot incorrectly assembled the ailerons onto the aircraft. During
the take-off run, the aircraft vacated the runway and came to rest in
long wet grass
the take-off run, the aircraft vacated the runway and came to rest in
long wet grass
ouch!
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Jaba I might have been over enthusiastic about the hours.
What I've seen is a sharp dividing line between those who fly regularly and those who fly occasionally for pleasure.
What I've seen is a sharp dividing line between those who fly regularly and those who fly occasionally for pleasure.
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10 hours a week? Then I'm in trouble!
Luckily I am already getting training every six months...
Luckily I am already getting training every six months...
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Entertaining link there thanks Jaba
I can, however, categorically state the SportStar VCA near Adelaide on 25/2/2011 wasn't me as at the time the airframe had wings nor an engine attached!
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interesting.. that link to ATSB throws up almost 20 incidents of entering CTA or runway without clearance.. only 1 is RAAus... Just sayin.
another funny thing, its almost weekly that somone doing circuits at YSBK busts into YSSY airspace while turning base for 29.
also noted a BAE Hawk struck a bird on take off, but burned off fuel before returning, hmmm i know for a fact the the Hawk does have fuel dump capability, but sadly no afterburner to ignite it
another funny thing, its almost weekly that somone doing circuits at YSBK busts into YSSY airspace while turning base for 29.
also noted a BAE Hawk struck a bird on take off, but burned off fuel before returning, hmmm i know for a fact the the Hawk does have fuel dump capability, but sadly no afterburner to ignite it
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hmmm i know for a fact the the Hawk does have fuel dump capability, but sadly no afterburner to ignite it