Minimum Instrument Panel - Experimental VFR?
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yeah...........and I see you have decided to join the dark side........after almost fatal doses of red wine to young Jaba 
Served me well this week in some serious IMC and darkness.
Served me well this week in some serious IMC and darkness.
Thread Starter
Definitely Dynon and with a backup battery . Maybe Skyview. ASI, Altimeter, compass and Microair or whatever VHF and transponder. Probably a x96 Garmin as well, and I will probably have an Ipad with moving map by then. I always have a hand held vhf as well. Not sure about a dedicated EPIRB as I have a plb.
Only apparent issue at this stage is that fuel gauges are "either or" - duplicate steam gauges would need duplicate transducers from what I've read. However Dynon manuals state its acceptable to have the unit booted up and engine start, meaning it would be on a separate CB and wouldn't be connected to the avionics bus.
I need to do some failure mode effect analysis.
Glass of red, mmmmm
Only apparent issue at this stage is that fuel gauges are "either or" - duplicate steam gauges would need duplicate transducers from what I've read. However Dynon manuals state its acceptable to have the unit booted up and engine start, meaning it would be on a separate CB and wouldn't be connected to the avionics bus.
I need to do some failure mode effect analysis.
Glass of red, mmmmm
Thread Starter
Cecil, I don't want to end up with a monstrous panel, unlike some I've seen. I just like the idea of being able to take off and fly home after the failure of a Dynon instrument.
Thread Starter
CH 750.. Sticking my big toe in the water half an inch at a time. Bought the plans. The kit purchase comes after that.
Jack, please check your PM's for longer message.
Jack, please check your PM's for longer message.
Last edited by Sunfish; 20th Mar 2011 at 22:01.
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Cecil, I don't want to end up with a monstrous panel, unlike some I've seen. I just like the idea of being able to take off and fly home after the failure of a Dynon instrument.
If the aircraft is making lots of noise and the controls are firmer, your going too fast.
If the aircraft is very quiet and the controls are sloppy then your going too slow.
If you can't read the road signs, your flying too high.
Bit of tongue in cheek but get the idea?
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CH 750
Had a bit of a look at the specs Sunny, 118 VNE? They aren't game enough to put a cruise speed on the site, it was just a quick flick through but I couldn't find one. I'd be guessing at maybe 75 knots with an 0-200?
As with most homebuilt's it always takes longer to build than you think and the costs are a lot more that's quoted. For that sort of $ outlay there are quite a few GA machines available.
Anything from 172's to old bomb Tri Pacers, lightly loaded and well flown you would be surprised where they will go. Not as short a landing spot as a CH750 but how often are you going to land in under 300 metres? A big plus would be a thirty or forty percent faster cruise speed. It is good flying low and slow but with the GA types I mention you can do that then throttle up and have a decent cross country speed for those longer trips. If you do find a cruise speed for the CH 750 you have to allow for the "Yank" (RV's actually seem pretty close to what's quoted, not many others) factor of about 1.3, divide their quoted cruise speeds by the "Yank" factor.
Maintenance is usually quoted better for home building than GA, it is an issue but I know people who make a once a year trip to a workshop and have a holiday working on their machine for a couple of days. Working under supervision can cost a lot less than you think. Another plus is your flying straight away instead of 3/5 years after you get a box full of bits to start on.
No doubt you've gone through all this stuff before deciding, building can bring it's own pleasures.
Don't worry about me Sunny just thinking aloud, carry on.
As with most homebuilt's it always takes longer to build than you think and the costs are a lot more that's quoted. For that sort of $ outlay there are quite a few GA machines available.
Anything from 172's to old bomb Tri Pacers, lightly loaded and well flown you would be surprised where they will go. Not as short a landing spot as a CH750 but how often are you going to land in under 300 metres? A big plus would be a thirty or forty percent faster cruise speed. It is good flying low and slow but with the GA types I mention you can do that then throttle up and have a decent cross country speed for those longer trips. If you do find a cruise speed for the CH 750 you have to allow for the "Yank" (RV's actually seem pretty close to what's quoted, not many others) factor of about 1.3, divide their quoted cruise speeds by the "Yank" factor.
Maintenance is usually quoted better for home building than GA, it is an issue but I know people who make a once a year trip to a workshop and have a holiday working on their machine for a couple of days. Working under supervision can cost a lot less than you think. Another plus is your flying straight away instead of 3/5 years after you get a box full of bits to start on.
No doubt you've gone through all this stuff before deciding, building can bring it's own pleasures.
Don't worry about me Sunny just thinking aloud, carry on.
Last edited by Super Cecil; 20th Mar 2011 at 23:30. Reason: Speelink
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From the CH750's that I've seen they are lucky to do 65-70 knots.
I would have been thinking hard about an RV12, plus with it's folding wings it can go home on a trailer next to your yacht in the driveway and you will look like the active sports guy from number 12 or whatever.
I would have been thinking hard about an RV12, plus with it's folding wings it can go home on a trailer next to your yacht in the driveway and you will look like the active sports guy from number 12 or whatever.
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I would consider the Savannah instead, more parts and local support.
"Ultralights" on here has one....most of his video's he posts come from various locations around his airframe
They are really an 85 knot MAX aeroplane, awesome STOL performance but not speedy. Chuckles calls them perfectly good Point A to Point A aeroplanes, mind you if you enjoy the ride, and you want to enjoy it for longer they can be used over a great distance if you install the second set of tanks.
"Ultralights" on here has one....most of his video's he posts come from various locations around his airframe
They are really an 85 knot MAX aeroplane, awesome STOL performance but not speedy. Chuckles calls them perfectly good Point A to Point A aeroplanes, mind you if you enjoy the ride, and you want to enjoy it for longer they can be used over a great distance if you install the second set of tanks.
Minimum Instrument Panel - Experimental VFR?
Definitely Dynon and with a backup battery . Maybe Skyview. ASI, Altimeter, compass and Microair or whatever VHF and transponder. Probably a x96 Garmin as well, and I will probably have an Ipad with moving map by then. I always have a hand held vhf as well. Not sure about a dedicated EPIRB as I have a plb.
Dr
Anyone looking at an LSA class aircraft should take a close look at the Pipistrel Virus SW. Dumb name but an extremely impressive data sheet! I'm sure it's not cheap though...
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The Pipistrel SW - RAA rego, 147 knots on 100hp, verified by NASA.
As fun as the instrument conversation is, why not start the thread again in 3.5 years when you are ready to build your panel!
As fun as the instrument conversation is, why not start the thread again in 3.5 years when you are ready to build your panel!
Thread Starter
Cecil, if I bought a 172 I do get the cruise speed, however if I lose my medical I can't fly it and I can't maintain it either.
I can still do Melbourne to Broken Hill in a day (still air + stop at Yswh) which is about my style of flying anyway.
The STOL thing is important to me because the plan is to keep it at a country property.
God willing, I'll put in 30+ hours a week and have it flying in less than a year.
While I will enjoy building it, the purpose is to use it for both fun and transport where possible
For example, Mansfield, where I once had a country property, is Three hours by road from Melbourne, and the Sunday afternoon drive back to the big smoke kills a lot of the enjoyment. By C172, Walsh's strip at Mansfield is 45 minutes from YMMB.
The Dynon is going in because with the addition of Two servos you have an autopilot, and once you have had an autopilot you won't want to fly (Tour) without it.
Well, that's my reasoning anyway, fire away...
I can still do Melbourne to Broken Hill in a day (still air + stop at Yswh) which is about my style of flying anyway.
The STOL thing is important to me because the plan is to keep it at a country property.
God willing, I'll put in 30+ hours a week and have it flying in less than a year.
While I will enjoy building it, the purpose is to use it for both fun and transport where possible
For example, Mansfield, where I once had a country property, is Three hours by road from Melbourne, and the Sunday afternoon drive back to the big smoke kills a lot of the enjoyment. By C172, Walsh's strip at Mansfield is 45 minutes from YMMB.
The Dynon is going in because with the addition of Two servos you have an autopilot, and once you have had an autopilot you won't want to fly (Tour) without it.
Well, that's my reasoning anyway, fire away...
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A mate just finished his RV12 full dynon glass. Third flight, flat battery, all instruments lost, no backup battery. Managed ok but a little uncomfortable without them.
Thread Starter
Beautiful high performance aircraft.
VH -XXX Pipistrel Short wing A$160,000 equipped and ready to fly or about 113,000 as a kit.
Having looked at the website of one builder, I think its a complicated kit and it also involves epoxy which I do not want to risk using again since epoxy allergy can catch up with you, and I'm already overdue for that from boat work.
I also do not feel happy about modifying Mr. Rotax's engine to make it fit.
To put it another way, I think there is too much to go wrong. I'm also not convinced about longevity and I note that Zenith CH701 are extremely rugged.
VH -XXX Pipistrel Short wing A$160,000 equipped and ready to fly or about 113,000 as a kit.
Having looked at the website of one builder, I think its a complicated kit and it also involves epoxy which I do not want to risk using again since epoxy allergy can catch up with you, and I'm already overdue for that from boat work.
I also do not feel happy about modifying Mr. Rotax's engine to make it fit.
To put it another way, I think there is too much to go wrong. I'm also not convinced about longevity and I note that Zenith CH701 are extremely rugged.
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A mate just finished his RV12 - 912 100HP full Dynon kit. $75k complete. 1000 hours build time. He's getting 115 knots at 5,100 RPM and 125 knots at 5,300rpm and max RPM with his set-up is 5,600. From memory VNE is 135knots. He has done 12.5 hours in the last week and he is absolutely LOVING the aircraft. His other two aircraft have just been mothballed and are unlikely to be flown by him again as he is so happy with this one.
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Don't be silly Cecil. You can't teach that which is impossible. Remember the old films where the hero would be heaving back on the stick with both hands as the noise built to a scream and it all ended in an explosion. Once you lose any of your basic instruments it is all over. If by chance you survive you can write a breathless article for the CASA crash comic telling how you were late down wind at Bankstown in your little chugga lug on a pleasant afternoon when to your alarm your dynon went dingle. No ASI, no angle of attack meter. Stuck in that fuzzy 80kt range between stall and VNE with no idea which end you are at. What do you do? Declare an emergency. Perhaps they will clear you across to Kingsford Smith for the longer runway. But no, it gets worse. Your auto piot has decoupled from your Garmin. You will never find the place. Only one way left to save the day. Deploy that rocket fired parachute that you were smart enough to install.
Seriously though, I thought this thread was about minimum panels. While the aircraft is being flown along by the auto pilot and the pilot has his head inside scrolling through pages on the glass display finding what the CHT trend has been on No 4 cylinder for the last half hour, what is happening to the external scan. Perhaps a very large strobe would be a good bit of equipment. Help the rest of us to see you coming.
Seriously though, I thought this thread was about minimum panels. While the aircraft is being flown along by the auto pilot and the pilot has his head inside scrolling through pages on the glass display finding what the CHT trend has been on No 4 cylinder for the last half hour, what is happening to the external scan. Perhaps a very large strobe would be a good bit of equipment. Help the rest of us to see you coming.