Minimum Instrument Panel - Experimental VFR?
Thread Starter
Minimum Instrument Panel - Experimental VFR?
What would be a reasonable minimum instrument panel for an experimental VFR aircraft?
Two heads are better than One...
Dynon skyview or similar EFIS/Engine combo
Clock (mandatory)
Hobbes
Compass, Magnetic
Altimeter
Airspeed
VHF
Transponder
Garmin 496 ( overkill if skyview nav avaiiable? )
Loss of a Skyview means:
1. No engine instruments.
2. No voltmeter.
3. No fuel gauges.
Therefore land ASAP? Could one continue to the next destination? I suppose so. Could one take off from there without engine instruments assuming fuel calculations were done? Would that be legal if the engine "sounds right" on a mag check?
Two heads are better than One...
Dynon skyview or similar EFIS/Engine combo
Clock (mandatory)
Hobbes
Compass, Magnetic
Altimeter
Airspeed
VHF
Transponder
Garmin 496 ( overkill if skyview nav avaiiable? )
Loss of a Skyview means:
1. No engine instruments.
2. No voltmeter.
3. No fuel gauges.
Therefore land ASAP? Could one continue to the next destination? I suppose so. Could one take off from there without engine instruments assuming fuel calculations were done? Would that be legal if the engine "sounds right" on a mag check?
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mel-burn
Posts: 4,875
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you are talking minimum instrumentation for basic VFR !
Clock (mandatory)
Compass, Magnetic
Altimeter
Airspeed
As far as what you are proposing, it would seem fairly sensible, with or without the 496.
Ideally if you were worried about Skyview failure you would add a few basic engine instruments such as oil pressure, oil temperature and a CHT. That way you can happily keep flying if your Skyview gives up (it has happened before) or if it's out for maintenance or upgrades. You're not talking about a massively significant cost for that, however it certainly gives you far more options.
With the 496, if the Skyview is out of action and you can handle not having a GPS, no dramas.
Clock (mandatory)
Compass, Magnetic
Altimeter
Airspeed
As far as what you are proposing, it would seem fairly sensible, with or without the 496.
Ideally if you were worried about Skyview failure you would add a few basic engine instruments such as oil pressure, oil temperature and a CHT. That way you can happily keep flying if your Skyview gives up (it has happened before) or if it's out for maintenance or upgrades. You're not talking about a massively significant cost for that, however it certainly gives you far more options.
With the 496, if the Skyview is out of action and you can handle not having a GPS, no dramas.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: rangaville
Posts: 2,280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sunfish,
Justification for building your own plane:
I've had several people look at me incredulously when I say I'm building a plane, 'You're actually happy to fly a home made aircraft?'
When you are driving the rivets yourself, you're going to make sure that all of them are near perfect. A Cessna or Piper can have a certain number of rivets that are not ok, they tend to be driven by minimum wage labourers that do not have a stake in the quality of the finish. I will bet that the rivet finish in my aircraft is far better than any GA aircraft.
Apply this to your avionics research, if you feel you don't have the confidence to put together a panel, get a LAME involved. Better still, join a few forums and soak up all that has been written. (Welcome to Doug Reeves' Van's Air Force Web Site) The vast majority of experimental aircraft have a far superior avionics setup than most GA aircraft. (I'm not talking Kingairs etc)
You can certainly use the CAO's as a starting point. Use TSO'd instruments if you want?
Justification for building your own plane:
I've had several people look at me incredulously when I say I'm building a plane, 'You're actually happy to fly a home made aircraft?'
When you are driving the rivets yourself, you're going to make sure that all of them are near perfect. A Cessna or Piper can have a certain number of rivets that are not ok, they tend to be driven by minimum wage labourers that do not have a stake in the quality of the finish. I will bet that the rivet finish in my aircraft is far better than any GA aircraft.
Apply this to your avionics research, if you feel you don't have the confidence to put together a panel, get a LAME involved. Better still, join a few forums and soak up all that has been written. (Welcome to Doug Reeves' Van's Air Force Web Site) The vast majority of experimental aircraft have a far superior avionics setup than most GA aircraft. (I'm not talking Kingairs etc)
You can certainly use the CAO's as a starting point. Use TSO'd instruments if you want?
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mel-burn
Posts: 4,875
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The SAAA has an informative page on VFR & NVFR instruments that talks about what is required:
SAAA - Sports Aircraft Association of Australia - Builders of Experimental Aircraft
You might find that with the addition of a TSO'ed GPS you will also be NVFR.
SAAA - Sports Aircraft Association of Australia - Builders of Experimental Aircraft
You might find that with the addition of a TSO'ed GPS you will also be NVFR.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 760
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Depends what your going to do with the machine, if it's VFR then what's wrong with what Mr X's said?
Old bombs like Pipers just had
Airspeed/Tacho then mag compass with Altimeter/combination gauge
the combination gauge was just oil pressure/oil temp
Really that's all you need, whack a garmin on the dash and your set to tour. Some want tripple IFR garmins with world data bases, just in case they do the round the world trip some day or two ILS's in case they happen into cloud and need to do an approach down to minimums into Mascot.
Some say you need an engine anylizer with five pickups' on each cylinder and gami washers on your needle and seat so yoo can lean it to within a mm of it's life.
So waddya want to have an all singing all dancing bells and whistles jobby or just go for a fly? Choice is yours.
Old bombs like Pipers just had
Airspeed/Tacho then mag compass with Altimeter/combination gauge
the combination gauge was just oil pressure/oil temp
Really that's all you need, whack a garmin on the dash and your set to tour. Some want tripple IFR garmins with world data bases, just in case they do the round the world trip some day or two ILS's in case they happen into cloud and need to do an approach down to minimums into Mascot.
Some say you need an engine anylizer with five pickups' on each cylinder and gami washers on your needle and seat so yoo can lean it to within a mm of it's life.
So waddya want to have an all singing all dancing bells and whistles jobby or just go for a fly? Choice is yours.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in the classroom of life
Age: 55
Posts: 6,864
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Sunfish
So many questions and you will get no end to the opinions here.
I have changed my offer....don't call me, well call me to make sure I am here to pick you up at YBBN, get on a Virgin Blue flight (we know you won't go with Q group) and come up here for a weekend.
SAAA has the answers but what you really need is a practical approach to what your legally need, what your really need and what you would like to have.
The answer to minimum panel is never going to be what you end up with.
J
So many questions and you will get no end to the opinions here.
I have changed my offer....don't call me, well call me to make sure I am here to pick you up at YBBN, get on a Virgin Blue flight (we know you won't go with Q group) and come up here for a weekend.
SAAA has the answers but what you really need is a practical approach to what your legally need, what your really need and what you would like to have.
The answer to minimum panel is never going to be what you end up with.
J
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mel-burn
Posts: 4,875
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a local chapter of the SAAA based at Moorabbin and they will be able to help you out too.
Australian Aviation Organisations Directory: Aero Clubs and Groups > Aircraft Builder Groups
SAAA - Sports Aircraft Association of Australia - Chapter 21
Australian Aviation Organisations Directory: Aero Clubs and Groups > Aircraft Builder Groups
SAAA - Sports Aircraft Association of Australia - Chapter 21
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Melbourne,Vic,Australia
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Advice for especially altimeter is get TSO stuff, Yellow tag (ie fixed and calibrated) ex US is less than than non TSO and will last longer and be fixable.
In my case, non TSO altimeter packed up after ~200 hrs so old altimeter (smiths probably pre TSO) cost a slab, maintenance (ie cleaning to deal with stuck setting) and VFR calibration cost $160. Didn't fit as knob in wrong place (not the first time I've had that problem !) didn't want to hack the panel so swapped with an Auster guy for a United with 3 month old calibration certificate
Talking to the instrument guys at MB they were told by CASA not to calibrate the (insert well known non TSO brand) altimeters.
Edited to add - Radios are a nightmare get an Icom VHF panel job not one of the things that fit in a 3 1/8 hole.
In my case, non TSO altimeter packed up after ~200 hrs so old altimeter (smiths probably pre TSO) cost a slab, maintenance (ie cleaning to deal with stuck setting) and VFR calibration cost $160. Didn't fit as knob in wrong place (not the first time I've had that problem !) didn't want to hack the panel so swapped with an Auster guy for a United with 3 month old calibration certificate
Talking to the instrument guys at MB they were told by CASA not to calibrate the (insert well known non TSO brand) altimeters.
Edited to add - Radios are a nightmare get an Icom VHF panel job not one of the things that fit in a 3 1/8 hole.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in the classroom of life
Age: 55
Posts: 6,864
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Deaf..........sort of agree, the chineese altimeters are CR@P to say the least.
An OHC altimeter is a better bet for not much more than say two or three chineese altimeters, that being said a Dynon D6/D10/D100 or skyview will blow away the TSO'd altimeters for accuracy and longevity every day. Before anyone gets all wound up.....its FACT.
...........so if you were building a Day VFR panel you would really be best with a simple D6. Has everything, and more, and costs less than the chineese quality 6 pack, and will meet the AD inst8's etc for years to come.
I have TSO gear and a D100 and D180....you can guess which is more accurate accross the range can't you....
An OHC altimeter is a better bet for not much more than say two or three chineese altimeters, that being said a Dynon D6/D10/D100 or skyview will blow away the TSO'd altimeters for accuracy and longevity every day. Before anyone gets all wound up.....its FACT.
...........so if you were building a Day VFR panel you would really be best with a simple D6. Has everything, and more, and costs less than the chineese quality 6 pack, and will meet the AD inst8's etc for years to come.
I have TSO gear and a D100 and D180....you can guess which is more accurate accross the range can't you....
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in the classroom of life
Age: 55
Posts: 6,864
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
When the RAD 43/47 and AD INST 9 tests with the Avionics LAME, who had the very latest boxes of freshly calibrated certified gear.
You don't think for a minute I make this stuff up now do you?
The TSO'd altimeter was pretty good, and well within IFR requirements all the way to 20K' but the D100/180 was dead on.
I have been to the factory and seen how they calibrate them, its hardly surprising.
You don't think for a minute I make this stuff up now do you?
The TSO'd altimeter was pretty good, and well within IFR requirements all the way to 20K' but the D100/180 was dead on.
I have been to the factory and seen how they calibrate them, its hardly surprising.
