See you at the bottom
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See you at the bottom
Good to see that the roaring success of the J* Cadet program has flowed on to GA so quickly. Have never seen a job add so enticing as this one.....
Position is ONLY guaranteed for 2 days a week.
The candidate MUST have experience or natural ability in Sales and customer service.
Remuneration is Incentive driven.
Must be available immediately.
Must be prepared for training/ICUS.
Floatplane endorsement, not essential, however, training will be at the cost of the candidate.
Where does one find the "INCENTIVE DRIVEN" remuneration clause in the pilots award? I wonder what the CFMEU do with this?
Position is ONLY guaranteed for 2 days a week.
The candidate MUST have experience or natural ability in Sales and customer service.
Remuneration is Incentive driven.
Must be available immediately.
Must be prepared for training/ICUS.
Floatplane endorsement, not essential, however, training will be at the cost of the candidate.
Where does one find the "INCENTIVE DRIVEN" remuneration clause in the pilots award? I wonder what the CFMEU do with this?
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To play devils advocate...the company did say it was only a casual job. However the clause of being prepared for training/ICUS should definately not translate into PAYING for said training/ICUS out of the pilot's already empty pockets. 
But I'm sure that there will be the occasional bourke who will come along telling the manager that he/she'll be happy to work for free...
Fuel-Off
But I'm sure that there will be the occasional bourke who will come along telling the manager that he/she'll be happy to work for free...
Fuel-Off
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The funny thing is that they will get someone..
Sounds average I agree but at least they are honest about it. If you want to wind up at the bottom have a look at the add below Cairns Seaplanes.
Sounds average I agree but at least they are honest about it. If you want to wind up at the bottom have a look at the add below Cairns Seaplanes.
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Well at least it was upfront, except for the missing bit about washing the bosses car, walking the dogs and cleaning the staff toilets. Could be worse, coulda required the applicant to perform other acts under his desk
Last edited by gas-chamber; 3rd Oct 2010 at 23:20.
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Why are you guys getting so upset?, this company is doing what all the others do including Pac Blue , jet connent and jet star. At the end of the day dont blame the companies, blame us Pilots, we are the ones prepared to degrade ourselves. Thats fine but please dont grizzle about conditions when you do get to the dream job when you have paid your way to get there.
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What can anyone do about it? Everyone outside the industry thinks we're overpaid button pushers. No one listens and no one cares. Some idiot will take the job and down we go.
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"incentive driven renumeration" sounds like the deal I'm on the boss pays me above award and conditions - thats my incentive. In return I turn up fly and try not to break his aircraft.
Realistically it's a start for someone to get into floats. all the research I did years ago when looking into floats were no insurance till you get a few hundred water landings and you have to be a bit of a boaty as well as a good aviator. In this instance you would have to make sure it's not an ongoing rip off and get something in writing to say that once you have xx number of water landings or after 3 months there would be a retainer and or casual/full time dollars as per the award. At the end of the day if you can't pay your employee's properly there is something seriously wrong with your business plan.
Realistically it's a start for someone to get into floats. all the research I did years ago when looking into floats were no insurance till you get a few hundred water landings and you have to be a bit of a boaty as well as a good aviator. In this instance you would have to make sure it's not an ongoing rip off and get something in writing to say that once you have xx number of water landings or after 3 months there would be a retainer and or casual/full time dollars as per the award. At the end of the day if you can't pay your employee's properly there is something seriously wrong with your business plan.
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Just curious - betting London to a brick that some miscreant will actually pay for this gig, how many Engineers work for free ?
How many ATCO's work for free ?
What is it about Pilots - please spare me the love of flying b/s, just explain why a certain group will eat their own young and then spend a lifetime justifying it.
Incoming
How many ATCO's work for free ?
What is it about Pilots - please spare me the love of flying b/s, just explain why a certain group will eat their own young and then spend a lifetime justifying it.
Incoming
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Yeah I don't get it either. Spend a hundred grand getting all the quals, fly for dodgy/shonky operators for years while gaining precious hours and getting paid peanuts, finally worm your way into a regional and get treated like doggy doo for a few years, get your command... now you are probably down half a million bucks over your mates who all became accountants... finally achieve the holy grail and start serving your serious airline time as a cruise F/0 or something while still being paid, well not peanuts, more like salted almonds.
About now you realise that quality of life and lifestyle are way more important than monitoring a computer for 13 hours... now all you want is an easy roster and less flying... eventually you would kill for a few weeks at home playing with the kids, who now don't recognise their father anyway... and now you couldn't care less if you never saw an aircraft ever again, if you could only stop feeling exhausted all the time and permanently jet-lagged...
May not be everybody's experience, however enough of my ex-colleagues found it to be so for them, which is why I never went long haul. Just not worth it IMHO... although the money can be good at the top of the tree...
And now you realise that flying for nothing, in order to get something that you end up not wanting anyway, isn't such a bargain!
About now you realise that quality of life and lifestyle are way more important than monitoring a computer for 13 hours... now all you want is an easy roster and less flying... eventually you would kill for a few weeks at home playing with the kids, who now don't recognise their father anyway... and now you couldn't care less if you never saw an aircraft ever again, if you could only stop feeling exhausted all the time and permanently jet-lagged...
May not be everybody's experience, however enough of my ex-colleagues found it to be so for them, which is why I never went long haul. Just not worth it IMHO... although the money can be good at the top of the tree...
And now you realise that flying for nothing, in order to get something that you end up not wanting anyway, isn't such a bargain!
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No... the key is to engineer yourself a career that suits your needs, which I have - flying in a place I want to fly, flying types I enjoy. All I'm saying is that far too many people follow the yellow brick road and find that at the end, it isn't what they thought it was.
I'd rather have a fulfilling, enjoyable career, living where I want to and see my kids grow up, than always be trying to fly the next bigger type etc. The downside is that you don't earn the top salaries, or have as good skiting opportunities...
I am very, very glad that I didn't do some of the PTF opportunities that were around when I was doing my licences. Turned out it wasn't necessary in the long run.
I'd rather have a fulfilling, enjoyable career, living where I want to and see my kids grow up, than always be trying to fly the next bigger type etc. The downside is that you don't earn the top salaries, or have as good skiting opportunities...
I am very, very glad that I didn't do some of the PTF opportunities that were around when I was doing my licences. Turned out it wasn't necessary in the long run.
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Wonder what Charles Kingsford Smith, Gordon P. Taylor, Saburo Sakai, Sir Francis Chichester, Billy Mitchell, Fred Ladd, Adolf Galland, Robert Munro, Jimmy Doolittle, Adrian Mark, Chuck Yeager . . .
. . . thousands of nameless heroes who on the smell of an oily rag have built their own homebuilt wonders and taken family, friends and neighbours for flights . . .
. . . and all the other pilots who never made a fortune but blazed trails through the seas and skies that can still be seen to this day would think of all this negativity?
Grow up guys!
Here's hoping the kid who gets a start with one of these crowds will end up in that ever decreasing group of men who think of themselves as aviators, men whose eyes shine with the glory and gratitude for the fleeting chance of being able to soar with angels, rather than the group of complaining and whiny half-men who equate the magic of flying as a job and think of themselves as pilots.
Pilots = half men who talk about pay, conditions, seniority, contracts, and whose gloom brings down others.
Aviators = men who talk about
flight,
flying,
flyers,
and whose passion lights the fires in the hearts of others.
Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly.
— G. K. Chesteron, 'Orthodoxy,' 1908.
. . . thousands of nameless heroes who on the smell of an oily rag have built their own homebuilt wonders and taken family, friends and neighbours for flights . . .
. . . and all the other pilots who never made a fortune but blazed trails through the seas and skies that can still be seen to this day would think of all this negativity?
Grow up guys!
Here's hoping the kid who gets a start with one of these crowds will end up in that ever decreasing group of men who think of themselves as aviators, men whose eyes shine with the glory and gratitude for the fleeting chance of being able to soar with angels, rather than the group of complaining and whiny half-men who equate the magic of flying as a job and think of themselves as pilots.
Pilots = half men who talk about pay, conditions, seniority, contracts, and whose gloom brings down others.
Aviators = men who talk about
flight,
flying,
flyers,
and whose passion lights the fires in the hearts of others.
Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly.
— G. K. Chesteron, 'Orthodoxy,' 1908.
Last edited by weloveseaplanes; 2nd Oct 2010 at 13:09.
I'm sorry but why can't we complain about ads like this?
The reason that so many of us feel so passionately about this ad is because we too were asked to run someone else's business for them/do 65 other non-flying related jobs with a bit of flying on the side while being paid fairly average wages in the hope of getting the hours to make it to a job that pays well enough to afford a beer at the end of the day.
As for doing something about it? Well..... Do you want a job or not?
Notwithstanding - I did have a good laugh at this ad
The reason that so many of us feel so passionately about this ad is because we too were asked to run someone else's business for them/do 65 other non-flying related jobs with a bit of flying on the side while being paid fairly average wages in the hope of getting the hours to make it to a job that pays well enough to afford a beer at the end of the day.
As for doing something about it? Well..... Do you want a job or not?
Notwithstanding - I did have a good laugh at this ad
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I'm sorry I thought this was a Professional Pilots forum? You know, those who fly for a JOB? Those who fly for pay, for food, for a CAREER?
Dreams and stars in your eyes wont put your kids through school.
Thank you so much "weloveseaplanes" for cheapening my career choice. Thank you so much for opening my eyes and showing me that I don't deserve a brass razoo. Because I'm so lucky that I get to FLY for a living... well not a living but I get to do it and not pay someone for the pleasure!
Alternatively I could do another job where I'm paid for my qualifications and experience; then pay for flying and come out on top because that's what you're saying isn't it? Why should someone expect to be paid for what others see as lofty amazingly unique experience. Something that's so special and entertaining that one should be happy just with the fortune of experiencing it.
Hey while we're jumping on the tall poppy bandwagon, lets hack Tiger Woods down to size, I enjoy golf why should he get paid? Thats not fair. What about Brad Pitt? I would LOVE to be in a movie, I did a bit of drama when I was kid, acting is fun; he should just be happy with being famous! He certainly doesn't deserve a dime!
While we're being idiotic about peoples lives and careers, here's a nice single piece white suit with the v cut down the middle; there's your drab white econo box car, here's your assigned job and you can expect your universally standard salary in the mail. If you need any help call the Kremlin and ask them when communism took over the world.
Dreams and stars in your eyes wont put your kids through school.
Thank you so much "weloveseaplanes" for cheapening my career choice. Thank you so much for opening my eyes and showing me that I don't deserve a brass razoo. Because I'm so lucky that I get to FLY for a living... well not a living but I get to do it and not pay someone for the pleasure!
Alternatively I could do another job where I'm paid for my qualifications and experience; then pay for flying and come out on top because that's what you're saying isn't it? Why should someone expect to be paid for what others see as lofty amazingly unique experience. Something that's so special and entertaining that one should be happy just with the fortune of experiencing it.
Hey while we're jumping on the tall poppy bandwagon, lets hack Tiger Woods down to size, I enjoy golf why should he get paid? Thats not fair. What about Brad Pitt? I would LOVE to be in a movie, I did a bit of drama when I was kid, acting is fun; he should just be happy with being famous! He certainly doesn't deserve a dime!
While we're being idiotic about peoples lives and careers, here's a nice single piece white suit with the v cut down the middle; there's your drab white econo box car, here's your assigned job and you can expect your universally standard salary in the mail. If you need any help call the Kremlin and ask them when communism took over the world.
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Mr. ...victim(?)
. . . "I thought this was a Professional Pilots forum?"
Yes it is ~ all sorts of flyers welcome.
. . . "Dreams and stars in your eyes wont put your kids through school."
Family love and governmental assistance will. Worked for mine.
. . . "cheapening my career choice."
No need to thank me,I'm not cheapening it at all, am on the contray trying to move away from this obession people have on PPRUNE to complain about pay all the time. You're cheapening it if the value you derive from flying is financial.
. . . "I don't deserve a brass razoo."
Never said that.
. . . "I'm so lucky that I get to FLY"
Yup. Surely you can feel it?
. . . "that's what you're saying isn't it?"
Nope. Am saying 'wonder what (insert list of famous aviators)would think of all this (=your) negativity.'
. . . "Why should someone expect to be paid for what others see as lofty amazingly unique experience."
I hope each time you arise and alight you too see it as a lofty amazingly unique experience ~ it'll help you, and those you meet, feel better.
. . . "why should he (Tiger) get paid?"
Don't particularly think he should especially as he wastes it on hookers.
. . . "What about Brad Pitt?"
Think he's great for adopting so many children from third world countries and donating so much money to children's charities.
. . . "I would LOVE to be in a movie"
Now you're talking - look at that you even used the word love and in capital letters no less! First time the sunshine of positiveness shone through that dark cloud. That's the spirit. It sounds like you had perhaps subconsciously wished you had followed the actors path instead of being one of those, "You know, those who fly for a JOB?"
In your second paragrapher you used the phrase "stars in your eyes" and later on you also said "acting is fun". Certainly sounds like one pilot's subconscious is trying to lead them back to their true calling :-)
Have you considered discussing with your family your childhood dream of becoming an actor, (drama did you say?), and perhaps giving it a go, after all God give us only two things - life and the will to follow our dream.
. . . "I thought this was a Professional Pilots forum?"
Yes it is ~ all sorts of flyers welcome.
. . . "Dreams and stars in your eyes wont put your kids through school."
Family love and governmental assistance will. Worked for mine.
. . . "cheapening my career choice."
No need to thank me,I'm not cheapening it at all, am on the contray trying to move away from this obession people have on PPRUNE to complain about pay all the time. You're cheapening it if the value you derive from flying is financial.
. . . "I don't deserve a brass razoo."
Never said that.
. . . "I'm so lucky that I get to FLY"
Yup. Surely you can feel it?
. . . "that's what you're saying isn't it?"
Nope. Am saying 'wonder what (insert list of famous aviators)would think of all this (=your) negativity.'
. . . "Why should someone expect to be paid for what others see as lofty amazingly unique experience."
I hope each time you arise and alight you too see it as a lofty amazingly unique experience ~ it'll help you, and those you meet, feel better.
. . . "why should he (Tiger) get paid?"
Don't particularly think he should especially as he wastes it on hookers.
. . . "What about Brad Pitt?"
Think he's great for adopting so many children from third world countries and donating so much money to children's charities.
. . . "I would LOVE to be in a movie"
Now you're talking - look at that you even used the word love and in capital letters no less! First time the sunshine of positiveness shone through that dark cloud. That's the spirit. It sounds like you had perhaps subconsciously wished you had followed the actors path instead of being one of those, "You know, those who fly for a JOB?"
In your second paragrapher you used the phrase "stars in your eyes" and later on you also said "acting is fun". Certainly sounds like one pilot's subconscious is trying to lead them back to their true calling :-)
Have you considered discussing with your family your childhood dream of becoming an actor, (drama did you say?), and perhaps giving it a go, after all God give us only two things - life and the will to follow our dream.
Last edited by weloveseaplanes; 2nd Oct 2010 at 11:44.