Pilots flying for free
Tee-em, it is not self righteous-just a simple statement of fact! Did you read the bit about flying with jet Captains who still had a student licence whilst I was flying a turboprop?? With this career you have to accept that a lot of it is timing, and the other part is persistance (unless of course you are related to someone...). Where is the self righteousness in that??
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Its encouraging to see most here people agree that working for free degrades the entire profession from the bottom all the way to the top.
For those of you who may be tempted to work for free...you spend good money on getting your qualification and should get paid once you start working. Any employer who believes they are doing you a "favour" by giving you a job but not paying you is laughing all the way to the bank! Get some respect for the proffesion and yourself and ensure you get paid for what you do, be it fly a C152 or a C441!!
The current potential for airline T&Cs to degrade further with J*s plans shows why we as a pilot group must work together.
Even if you may be some rich guy who "doesnt want to be paid for flying because you doing for the love" that still contributes to the problem of employers not paying what they should. Take the money then give it to say...Angel Flight
I have no problem with the pilots who give their time to Angel Flight type charitys...its not a commercial venture as such and many of them fly their own aircraft.
If you have to pay for some hours to get your magic 10 command on the C200 series then so be it...its cheaper than an instructor rating or a MECIR.
As has already been said networking is one of the best ways at getting your next job and getting the gig is pretty much a case of "right place, right time" however the key is persistance. Securing the first job will always be the hardest part, however once you have it thats when your career really starts and how far you go is totally up to you and a spot of luck.
Safe landings
Muz
For those of you who may be tempted to work for free...you spend good money on getting your qualification and should get paid once you start working. Any employer who believes they are doing you a "favour" by giving you a job but not paying you is laughing all the way to the bank! Get some respect for the proffesion and yourself and ensure you get paid for what you do, be it fly a C152 or a C441!!
The current potential for airline T&Cs to degrade further with J*s plans shows why we as a pilot group must work together.
Even if you may be some rich guy who "doesnt want to be paid for flying because you doing for the love" that still contributes to the problem of employers not paying what they should. Take the money then give it to say...Angel Flight
I have no problem with the pilots who give their time to Angel Flight type charitys...its not a commercial venture as such and many of them fly their own aircraft.
If you have to pay for some hours to get your magic 10 command on the C200 series then so be it...its cheaper than an instructor rating or a MECIR.
As has already been said networking is one of the best ways at getting your next job and getting the gig is pretty much a case of "right place, right time" however the key is persistance. Securing the first job will always be the hardest part, however once you have it thats when your career really starts and how far you go is totally up to you and a spot of luck.
Safe landings
Muz
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I can't find any good recipes for scab anywhere on the net, I suspect the meat would be Soft with little need for marinating or tenderising, the complete lack of a spine may make it easier to carve.
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Unnecessarily inflammatory post Aerodynamisist.
You obviously have no idea what "scab" (in the IR context) means. This topic has nothing to do with scabs. Pilots that fly for free are not scabs.
You obviously have no idea what "scab" (in the IR context) means. This topic has nothing to do with scabs. Pilots that fly for free are not scabs.
For as long as there is newbie pilots, there will be pilot's willing to work for free, very sad fact but true.
Can I point out that any commercial operation is either viable and able to pay pilots as per the award or unsustainable and should be wound up. The logic suggested by some that under 250hr TT pilot's MUST work for very little or free is so so false. If we all refused to fly for free the same jobs would exist, everyone would be paid and our industry would be improved.
The problem is that there is always pilots willing to subvert the award and work for free thereby artificially placing themselves above pilots who deserve the job. In saying this, I can empathise with new pilots trying to get their first job facing the question of whether they are prepared to work for free or potentially wait longer and find a paying job. It is hard, It is unfair, It does take persistence.
For those who are considering working for free I will just say this: Remember you are taking a job off someone else who deserves to be getting paid for it, sure someone else may have also done this to you but are you comfortable perpetuating it? No excuses, it is wrong, even if plenty of people do it.
For those highly critical of pilots working for free: Sure it's not right, but remember what it was like starting in this industry, getting a first job can be very stressful and demoralising time. Talk of a scab list for newbie pilots is not the way to go, to address this issue we need to start on leadership from the top. What do I mean by leadership from the top? Airline pilot unions, Chief Pilots, Chief Flying Instructors. I mean why in the world are CP in these organisations not getting involved and putting an end to this?
Leadership from the top down boys and girls.
Regards,
MHA
Can I point out that any commercial operation is either viable and able to pay pilots as per the award or unsustainable and should be wound up. The logic suggested by some that under 250hr TT pilot's MUST work for very little or free is so so false. If we all refused to fly for free the same jobs would exist, everyone would be paid and our industry would be improved.
The problem is that there is always pilots willing to subvert the award and work for free thereby artificially placing themselves above pilots who deserve the job. In saying this, I can empathise with new pilots trying to get their first job facing the question of whether they are prepared to work for free or potentially wait longer and find a paying job. It is hard, It is unfair, It does take persistence.
For those who are considering working for free I will just say this: Remember you are taking a job off someone else who deserves to be getting paid for it, sure someone else may have also done this to you but are you comfortable perpetuating it? No excuses, it is wrong, even if plenty of people do it.
For those highly critical of pilots working for free: Sure it's not right, but remember what it was like starting in this industry, getting a first job can be very stressful and demoralising time. Talk of a scab list for newbie pilots is not the way to go, to address this issue we need to start on leadership from the top. What do I mean by leadership from the top? Airline pilot unions, Chief Pilots, Chief Flying Instructors. I mean why in the world are CP in these organisations not getting involved and putting an end to this?
Leadership from the top down boys and girls.
Regards,
MHA
Given there's a notional finite amount of money in the economy willing to be spent on flying things and people about, then if the guys at the top of the pilot heap are on quarter-million salaries, it is self-evident that the ones at the bottom will be working for nearly nothing if there are too many of them in total.
Now if you professional pilot lot are as communist/unionist as you all appear to be judging by repeated posting here on PPRuNe about the issue, then how about all working according to his/her ability and taking according to his/her need. That should fix it!
The alternative (capitalist) model is to stop complaining and get out there and start your own airline if you want to fly. I mean, this management stuff is easy, isn't it? You should be able to do it inbetween the loadsheets and the refuelling duties, surely?
Now if you professional pilot lot are as communist/unionist as you all appear to be judging by repeated posting here on PPRuNe about the issue, then how about all working according to his/her ability and taking according to his/her need. That should fix it!
The alternative (capitalist) model is to stop complaining and get out there and start your own airline if you want to fly. I mean, this management stuff is easy, isn't it? You should be able to do it inbetween the loadsheets and the refuelling duties, surely?
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There is no such thing as "working for free," legally, unless you own and maintain the aircraft.
The FAA holds that flight time is, in itself, compensation, which is why you can't "hire" a private pilot to ferry an aircraft, even if the only pay is free flight time. You should have a comm ticket to do that.
Now, do I think it sucks that some people will take slave wages, or maybe no wages, to work in aviation. Unfortunately, that's the consequence of being in a field widely regarded as being cool and glamorous. Now, we all know that it is, indeed, cool, but not at all glamorous. It becomes the nature of the beast that entry-level jobs in such industries aren't going to pay much. Same as acting, for instance. Then again, no one goes $50K in debt to learn to act.
The FAA holds that flight time is, in itself, compensation, which is why you can't "hire" a private pilot to ferry an aircraft, even if the only pay is free flight time. You should have a comm ticket to do that.
Now, do I think it sucks that some people will take slave wages, or maybe no wages, to work in aviation. Unfortunately, that's the consequence of being in a field widely regarded as being cool and glamorous. Now, we all know that it is, indeed, cool, but not at all glamorous. It becomes the nature of the beast that entry-level jobs in such industries aren't going to pay much. Same as acting, for instance. Then again, no one goes $50K in debt to learn to act.
