Final F-111 dump & burn over Brisbane 0900z 100904
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Final F-111 dump & burn over Brisbane 0900z 100904
With the final 'dump and burn' as a part of Brisbane's Riverfire by the now defunct Amberly AFB [YAMB] F-111's tomorrow night, I would like to know if I should tune to BN Radar 125.7 or BN Approach 125.6 to listen in to their requests for clearance to execute the Dump and Burn?
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Madness
I'll be glad when it's over. Madness to fly low level over the city, and silly to waste all that fuel just to entertain the masses. A few more fireworks would do them. How safe is it? A few F-111's have crashed, one on the edge of a small town (Tenterfield) came within about 2 km of wiping the place out. 
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Air Tourer,
You raise two main points, one about the cost of the flight in terms of simple entertainment, the other, safety:
I'd suggest that the masses don't generally have a problem with expenditure of a reasonable amount of public funds, on public entertainment from time to time. This is clearly a one-off, the celebration of 37 years' faithful service by a major defence asset which has become a common sight over parts of SEQ. Maybe it's the RAAF's way of telling us all that they're still on watch.
It's also the RAAF's tribute to those who maintained and operated them (and some who sadly died); the public's tribute will be in the applause and cheers which will doubtless be heard as the F111 goes overhead. I'd suggest that if numbers at the next similar event are smaller than this year's, the lack of the F111 will be a factor.
It could be argued that any public celebration / entertainment 'wastes' something, be it fuel, money, or some other resource. Indeed there are some which arguably waste at least as much - motor racing comes to mind, for example. Society may well one day choose to cap these 'wastes' by banning them. In any case, I'm sure we could all contribute by leaving the car at home now & then.
On the safety / crash point, these are military aircraft which I think we'd agree are sometimes pushed harder than civilian aircraft; that is, they often engage in activities which are inherently riskier, and that is where most incidents occur.
However, a straight-and-level, 1g overflight would, I'd suggest, generate limited risk for a properly maintained and operated aircraft. That is, a sortie such as this should present no greater risk to a built-up area under the flightpath, than a RPT aircraft approach over a built-up area. I'd suggest most airports serving major centres around the world, these days, are subject to pressures from the surrounding population such that it would be difficult to think of many which are competely free from built-up areas under one of their approaches; hence this is a risk which is difficult to eliminate.
Personally, I'm in favour of the upcoming show and I'm disappointed I won't be able to be there. I hope it's a lovely clear dark night and the flame coming out of that F111 lights up Brisbane.
You raise two main points, one about the cost of the flight in terms of simple entertainment, the other, safety:
I'd suggest that the masses don't generally have a problem with expenditure of a reasonable amount of public funds, on public entertainment from time to time. This is clearly a one-off, the celebration of 37 years' faithful service by a major defence asset which has become a common sight over parts of SEQ. Maybe it's the RAAF's way of telling us all that they're still on watch.
It's also the RAAF's tribute to those who maintained and operated them (and some who sadly died); the public's tribute will be in the applause and cheers which will doubtless be heard as the F111 goes overhead. I'd suggest that if numbers at the next similar event are smaller than this year's, the lack of the F111 will be a factor.
It could be argued that any public celebration / entertainment 'wastes' something, be it fuel, money, or some other resource. Indeed there are some which arguably waste at least as much - motor racing comes to mind, for example. Society may well one day choose to cap these 'wastes' by banning them. In any case, I'm sure we could all contribute by leaving the car at home now & then.
On the safety / crash point, these are military aircraft which I think we'd agree are sometimes pushed harder than civilian aircraft; that is, they often engage in activities which are inherently riskier, and that is where most incidents occur.
However, a straight-and-level, 1g overflight would, I'd suggest, generate limited risk for a properly maintained and operated aircraft. That is, a sortie such as this should present no greater risk to a built-up area under the flightpath, than a RPT aircraft approach over a built-up area. I'd suggest most airports serving major centres around the world, these days, are subject to pressures from the surrounding population such that it would be difficult to think of many which are competely free from built-up areas under one of their approaches; hence this is a risk which is difficult to eliminate.
Personally, I'm in favour of the upcoming show and I'm disappointed I won't be able to be there. I hope it's a lovely clear dark night and the flame coming out of that F111 lights up Brisbane.
Last edited by Taildragger67; 3rd Sep 2010 at 10:25.
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They don't burn normal usable fuel, it's "b" grade slops so not really a waste as far as what is being dumped although the primary fuel is a waste. Military are of course exempt from civil rules so height and proximity to built up areas / innocent civillians are not of concern to them. After all they just eject if things go wrong don't they???...... I've been harping on about this for years, particularly how even the Roulettes can exit a loop towards he crowd at airshows in full close proximity formation... It's only a matter of time.
Nobody is perfect and nobody is exempt from crashing.
Maybe "the masses" realise that properly maintained aircraft, with properly trained and experienced crews
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VH-xxx. I'm sure your right, but just for my edification, where can you buy "slop" fuel. Even the heater oil I buy is the price of unleaded petrol.
To the busdriver, you have me speachless mate. I'm sure I couldn't tell you anything.
That other joker? well I don't fly over populated areas for the fun of it and having flown in a few air shows, the first rule was, "Don't point it at the public". The rest of your post is just crap, and no I don't go to motor races, drive on toures or to shows or have any fun at all.
To the busdriver, you have me speachless mate. I'm sure I couldn't tell you anything.
That other joker? well I don't fly over populated areas for the fun of it and having flown in a few air shows, the first rule was, "Don't point it at the public". The rest of your post is just crap, and no I don't go to motor races, drive on toures or to shows or have any fun at all.
I worked out the cost of the fuel and its 7 cents 
per person watching.
As for the safety, it's the air force, they can do whatever they want so it seems. Imagine a civil operator getting CASA approval for this
per person watching.As for the safety, it's the air force, they can do whatever they want so it seems. Imagine a civil operator getting CASA approval for this
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As for the safety, it's the air force, they can do whatever they want so it seems. Imagine a civil operator getting CASA approval for this
Whether you like the planes or not, they have become part of the Aussie culture and will be surely missed. As for the lads flying them on saturday night - Give it heaps !!
P.S I hear the STIG may be flying one....
VH-XXX how about we just wrap ourselves up in cotton wool entirely, and never go outside.. I mean come on, really? Are you really that concerned about a 111, or a PC9 for that matter spearing into the general public?
Who appointed Airtourer the "Fun Police" anyway?
The crash in Tenterfield was during a very low level TFR exercise with a pitch up roll maneuver on a very dark night. I hardly think a straight and level flypast at 500' would be a problem and for you to compare the two means you know jack about flying. So stick to your bug smasher and let the pros handle the kero burners.
The crash in Tenterfield was during a very low level TFR exercise with a pitch up roll maneuver on a very dark night. I hardly think a straight and level flypast at 500' would be a problem and for you to compare the two means you know jack about flying. So stick to your bug smasher and let the pros handle the kero burners.
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Question?
My personal opinion would be, if a screaming F111 was the last thing I saw coming at me just before the lights went out, AT LEAST I'D DIE HAPPY!!
Any idea on just how many pigs may possibly be seen??
I have heard rumours of more than 2??
Any idea on just how many pigs may possibly be seen??
I have heard rumours of more than 2??
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I'm starting a petition to ban all low level, wasteful "publicity stunts" by the RAAF, to include fuel dump and burns and aerobatics. After that, then I'm gunning for public parks, highway rest areas, GA aerodromes, television stations, voting, lifesaver beach carnivals, church picnics (people can get food poisoning) and politicians. They all seem like a waste to me. Then I'm going to find a cave and live out the rest of my days in isolation. So there!
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The fuel the Pig dumps is from its usable fuel load, that is the whole point of a jettison system, to reduce weight. Do you really think the GD designers thought, "hey lets put a slop fuel dump system on the 111 so it can look cool at air shows..." As for the safety concerns raised by Airtourer, yes there is a risk when an aircraft flys over a city, or flys at all for that matter and yes F111s have crashed. But so have 320's 74's 73's 340's etc and even airtourers, but most of those fly over the city every day. Can I suggest Airtourer. for your own safety, you stay indoors and wear a tin hat.
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VH-XXX,
It has already been said and I almost thought "ah - let it go" - but:
You have proven yourself to be ill informed.
The rules which ADF aircraft follow are derived from a multitude of publications, which (where applicable) embrace (or even copy verbatim) the rules contained in AIP. Of course, the AIP would only cover a tiny fraction of the overall operational profile of many military types (particularly a strike aircraft like an F-111), therefore if we were to ask the F-111 (or similar) to conform to the AIP (and other civil regs) we'd be chopping off its nuts.
Risk management is performed at every level of flying safety management in the ADF, right down to the individual flight. No - it isn't always done perfectly - but as others have stated, we're talking about an essentially straight and level pass dumping a small amount of fuel. Without doubt only a fraction of the risk of your average first solo at Archerfield or similar...
I think you'd find that "height and proximity to built up areas/innocent civilians" is one of the frequently addressed issues in a military flight authorisation brief, and of great concern to ADF airworthiness authorities at all levels.
Is this sounding like cantonese to you? I suspect so...
VI
It has already been said and I almost thought "ah - let it go" - but:
Military are of course exempt from civil rules so height and proximity to built up areas / innocent civillians are not of concern to them.
The rules which ADF aircraft follow are derived from a multitude of publications, which (where applicable) embrace (or even copy verbatim) the rules contained in AIP. Of course, the AIP would only cover a tiny fraction of the overall operational profile of many military types (particularly a strike aircraft like an F-111), therefore if we were to ask the F-111 (or similar) to conform to the AIP (and other civil regs) we'd be chopping off its nuts.
Risk management is performed at every level of flying safety management in the ADF, right down to the individual flight. No - it isn't always done perfectly - but as others have stated, we're talking about an essentially straight and level pass dumping a small amount of fuel. Without doubt only a fraction of the risk of your average first solo at Archerfield or similar...
I think you'd find that "height and proximity to built up areas/innocent civilians" is one of the frequently addressed issues in a military flight authorisation brief, and of great concern to ADF airworthiness authorities at all levels.
Is this sounding like cantonese to you? I suspect so...
VI
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You have proven yourself to be ill informed.
Next time you are at an airshow and the Roulettes exit their loop towards the crowd of 50,000 people like at Avalon at around 500 ft over your naive little heads, rest assured that the RAAF have followed their extensive risk management processes that you speak of and that the 25 year old pilot with 500 hours in his log book who is lucky to clock 100 hours a year had plenty of sleep the night before and that the apprentice RAAF engineer that signed off on the aircraft after a big night on the turps did his job properly.
Nobody is perfect, accidents do happen and the roulettes / pc9's / military are not exempt as hey have proven before on multiple occasions during practice. If you'd ever woken up to a smashed PC9 with associated fatality in your back paddock like I have, you would understand... (granted that this aircraft was not flying as part of the roulettes but goes to show the level of risk management as the weather was atrocious)