Oxford Aviation Academy ripping off Jetstar applicants
If you've got the experience (2500hrs on a EFIS jet >30tons) start looking overseas. Emirates will fly you to Dubai business class, put you up in a nice hotel and feed you when you go for interview.
If successful you'll get a free type rating, free furnished accommodation, free medical care and a provident fund. Tax free salary, car loan, transport to and from work, they even dry clean your uniform for you.
If you want better terms and conditions look at Asia and the Middle East.
Australia is just a race to the bottom, only worth it if you get into QF mainline while you're young.
If successful you'll get a free type rating, free furnished accommodation, free medical care and a provident fund. Tax free salary, car loan, transport to and from work, they even dry clean your uniform for you.
If you want better terms and conditions look at Asia and the Middle East.
Australia is just a race to the bottom, only worth it if you get into QF mainline while you're young.
I'm with you Strim, what is the race?
Maybe things should go back to the way they were 15-20 years ago, when you'd have 3-4,000hrs by the time an airline even looked at you.
If everyone would stop the race, then maybe they'd all stop f**king up T&C's for everyone else behind them.
morno
Maybe things should go back to the way they were 15-20 years ago, when you'd have 3-4,000hrs by the time an airline even looked at you.
If everyone would stop the race, then maybe they'd all stop f**king up T&C's for everyone else behind them.
morno
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As someone who was seriously looking at these schemes, here was how I looked at it (ab initio mind you):
Having yet to complete my first full hour of flying I won't pretend to know how getting experience the cadet route or the GA route stacks up. Being unable to get flying out of my head since my first lesson and taking inspiration from the various photo threads, I really don't mind the thought of building hours "the long way". Unfortunately I can't support three kids and a wife for what I see on offer on that track. Just getting up to a CPL level is a struggle enough, even on a decent IT salary.
- The full time training was covered by HECS/FEE HELP. While there was still out of pocket, it was less painful than doing the same out of my own pocket directly.
- The J* program offered employment at the end of it. Granted the reality of the J* role does not seem to line up with the glossy advertising.
- Direct line into an A320. Who doesn't want to fly shiny jets?
- Shorter timeline than the outback hard yards route.
Having yet to complete my first full hour of flying I won't pretend to know how getting experience the cadet route or the GA route stacks up. Being unable to get flying out of my head since my first lesson and taking inspiration from the various photo threads, I really don't mind the thought of building hours "the long way". Unfortunately I can't support three kids and a wife for what I see on offer on that track. Just getting up to a CPL level is a struggle enough, even on a decent IT salary.
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Sgt Bundy,
I think there are a lot of people out there who can see it from your point of view, myself being one of them. I've had 'half' a go at the GA route and still have plans to try (still need many hours, especially Twin).
Time's ticking for me though, and I think I have another 2 - 3 years left to make something of it by way of dragging my family to the outback (while leaving a perfectly good IT contract position behind that I've had for 5 years).
I have tried for cadetships before, and will try again (as contentious as they are in these forums), as they do offer a person in my (and your) position a good chance to get to where we eventually want to be. Leaving the discussion about whether I should or shouldn't apply for the greater good of aviation aside, I do believe that one needs a plan B (in my case plan A) through the conventional hour building route. There are so many if's and but's when it comes to cadetships... they're not a sure thing, and are almost like the lottery in some ways.
All the best with your next lesson!
Nads.
I think there are a lot of people out there who can see it from your point of view, myself being one of them. I've had 'half' a go at the GA route and still have plans to try (still need many hours, especially Twin).
Time's ticking for me though, and I think I have another 2 - 3 years left to make something of it by way of dragging my family to the outback (while leaving a perfectly good IT contract position behind that I've had for 5 years).
I have tried for cadetships before, and will try again (as contentious as they are in these forums), as they do offer a person in my (and your) position a good chance to get to where we eventually want to be. Leaving the discussion about whether I should or shouldn't apply for the greater good of aviation aside, I do believe that one needs a plan B (in my case plan A) through the conventional hour building route. There are so many if's and but's when it comes to cadetships... they're not a sure thing, and are almost like the lottery in some ways.
All the best with your next lesson!
Nads.
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Jetstar
The pay for a JFO from the ACP would be about say 40K
The pay for an FO would be about say 85k
so take 5 years of work JFO gets paid 200k
FO gets paid 425K
so for the Jetstar management JFO would be good
if they get say 50 JFO 10000k pay for the 5 years
if they get 50 FO then 21250K
so if you work out these are big figures for the Airline.
Do you think in all honesty that they would want to do the right thing by giving jobs to the experienced pilots???????????????????
This group of AJ ,BB DH and all are not going to let that happen
They will go and play any dirty tricks inorder to get there bonuses.
Only when the public understands the importance of expereince in the cockpit then maybe we can see a change.
The pay for an FO would be about say 85k
so take 5 years of work JFO gets paid 200k
FO gets paid 425K
so for the Jetstar management JFO would be good
if they get say 50 JFO 10000k pay for the 5 years
if they get 50 FO then 21250K
so if you work out these are big figures for the Airline.
Do you think in all honesty that they would want to do the right thing by giving jobs to the experienced pilots???????????????????
This group of AJ ,BB DH and all are not going to let that happen
They will go and play any dirty tricks inorder to get there bonuses.
Only when the public understands the importance of expereince in the cockpit then maybe we can see a change.
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Public will care
With all due respect
The day will come when the public will care
And this is not far away.......
the things did come very close a year ago or 2
But they got out of jail.......
Because there was some experience in the cockpit......
I hope and pray that it wont happen.......
Time will Tell.
The day will come when the public will care
And this is not far away.......
the things did come very close a year ago or 2
But they got out of jail.......
Because there was some experience in the cockpit......
I hope and pray that it wont happen.......
Time will Tell.
I'm with you Strim, what is the race?
Maybe things should go back to the way they were 15-20 years ago, when you'd have 3-4,000hrs by the time an airline even looked at you.
If everyone would stop the race, then maybe they'd all stop f**king up T&C's for everyone else behind them.
morno
Maybe things should go back to the way they were 15-20 years ago, when you'd have 3-4,000hrs by the time an airline even looked at you.
If everyone would stop the race, then maybe they'd all stop f**king up T&C's for everyone else behind them.
morno
I understand your attitude but im having a hard time living on GA twin wages alone. If GA paid a bit better id probably be happy to hang around until 4000 tt.
edit: Disclaimer: This jet* ACP program is aids and I never even applied for it.
20 years ago typical G/A salary, Casual, so no allowances whatsoever, flying Aerostar, Baron, C310, and Cheiftain: $150-$180 per day. Sometimes 5 days a week, sometimes 1! Flexible second Job essential.
15 years ago, Bank-runs, Full time, sick leave, 6 weeks annual leave, same aircraft types: $30K P/A (award), = $880 per fortnight in hand after Tax!
If you factor in what should have been nominal CPI increase over the years, those figures should amount to approx 50% more! Somehow I don't think so! Probably one reason why the participation rate for young Aussies learning to fly has dramatically decreased over the last ten years.
Cadetships are a way to get 'em young while they have stars in their eyes, are living at home with Mum and Dad, and have absolutely no Idea of what this game is all about.
Pure Evil. Clever (untill the Sh!te hits the fan of course), but Evil!
15 years ago, Bank-runs, Full time, sick leave, 6 weeks annual leave, same aircraft types: $30K P/A (award), = $880 per fortnight in hand after Tax!
If you factor in what should have been nominal CPI increase over the years, those figures should amount to approx 50% more! Somehow I don't think so! Probably one reason why the participation rate for young Aussies learning to fly has dramatically decreased over the last ten years.
Cadetships are a way to get 'em young while they have stars in their eyes, are living at home with Mum and Dad, and have absolutely no Idea of what this game is all about.
Pure Evil. Clever (untill the Sh!te hits the fan of course), but Evil!
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Only when the public understands the importance of expereince in the cockpit then maybe we can see a change.
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The only way it will happen is if you all start telling them, but PPRuNe is not as widely read as all that.
No doubt you've all seen Police Union ads over the years when they're negotiating pays, usually well directed, eye catching little movies about the difficulties of being a cop...of course Police work for one employer that has to obey basic IR rules (unlike some of the smaller GA operators
), but the public awareness factor has been a big part of several sucessful emergency services wage negotiations in the past.
If the information on here was more widely available (and a little more coherent at times
) you probably would garner quite a bit of public support. Unfortnately that hasn't happened and the average person still thinks you're all on 300K a year plus all-you-can-eat hosties. They will keep thinking that until you tell them otherwise, because it's certainly not in your respective employers' interests to have your actual wage details out there.
Start an organized campaign and get the words 'public safety' and 'experience' in it, and you may change your public image (particularly if you point out that Australia is losing experienced pilots to overseas due to poor conditions here). Otherwise, your employers will remain safe in the knowledge that they can keep offering peanuts and their customers won't care.
No doubt you've all seen Police Union ads over the years when they're negotiating pays, usually well directed, eye catching little movies about the difficulties of being a cop...of course Police work for one employer that has to obey basic IR rules (unlike some of the smaller GA operators
), but the public awareness factor has been a big part of several sucessful emergency services wage negotiations in the past. If the information on here was more widely available (and a little more coherent at times
) you probably would garner quite a bit of public support. Unfortnately that hasn't happened and the average person still thinks you're all on 300K a year plus all-you-can-eat hosties. They will keep thinking that until you tell them otherwise, because it's certainly not in your respective employers' interests to have your actual wage details out there. Start an organized campaign and get the words 'public safety' and 'experience' in it, and you may change your public image (particularly if you point out that Australia is losing experienced pilots to overseas due to poor conditions here). Otherwise, your employers will remain safe in the knowledge that they can keep offering peanuts and their customers won't care.
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beyond a joke...
"Only when the public understands the importance of expereince in the cockpit then maybe we can see a change."
I dis-agree, only when the idiots who keep backstabbing each other to get ahead to the bottom of the pile understand that operators are the only winners here, then mabey we can see a change.
You're doing it to yourselves!!
I dis-agree, only when the idiots who keep backstabbing each other to get ahead to the bottom of the pile understand that operators are the only winners here, then mabey we can see a change.
You're doing it to yourselves!!
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Oxford ripping off students.......
