Oxford Aviation Academy ripping off Jetstar applicants
 

All you Jetstar "Advanced Cadetship" applicants, be warned.

Stories are emerging of Advanced Cadetship applicants paying Oxford the money for the application, taking time off work for the interviews with Oxford and resigning from their positions when Oxford tells them they're in...

...only to be told by Jetstar that they don't qualify.

Why?

Because they actually hold an ATPL, not just passes in the exams :suspect:

People are not only losing cash and wasting weeks of their time, but losing their existing employment and becoming stranded in aviation limbo.

There is a group forming to lodge a complaint with Dept Fair Trading over Oxford Aviation Academy's conduct. If you have been burnt by this, please send me a PM.

Edited to keep the lawyers at bay - Everyone be VERY careful with emotive language please

MA

We did actually warn everyone of this 3 months ago.

/Standing by for complaints of poor conditions and low pay.

You mean they turned people away because their ATPL is unfrozen?:eek:

Obviously too close to being 'real' pilots who should actually be paid more as DEFOs... :E

By joining with an ATPL they will have already broken the golden barrier distinction Jet* constructed between 'junior' and 'senior' FO positions. Makes it hard for them to then enforce the nice long stint on peasant wages as a 'Junior' FO...

People DO NOT PAY for APPLICATIONS or a JOB its just WRONG !:ugh:

Given the way that the selection process seemed to have been structured it is not just the guys with 'the green light' that are affected. Guys and girls that forked out approx. $1,000 to travel interstate to attend the process who were rejected in favour of the ATPL holders may have been rejected incorrectly and had their future careers affected by this - arguably with hindsight in a positive way!! ;-)

My perception from participating in the process was that (assuming the standard was met) it was only the top 2 performers in a group of 10 and top 1 performer in a group of 5 that got the opportunity to go in front of Jetstar. I know that the individual who got through in my group of 5 had an ATPL - so assuming my perception is correct, that means 1 of the remaining 4 applicants in the group were possibly rejected incorrectly.

I also had reservations about the manner in which the selection process occurred. Some groups seemed to do the testing and interview prior to the group exercises and others did the testing and group exercises prior to the interview. Consequently some applicants were rejected after the first two elements and did not reach the group exercise, some in other groups did not reach the interview. How can this provide a uniform selection process??

This 'oversight' by Oxford should have been picked up at initial application stage, prior to the selection day. One of the questions on the application form was What licences do you hold? Perhaps this is an indication of how focussed they were towards getting as many people to part with their money as possible?? I know when I arrived at Oxford - and this is no joke - I was greeted not with Good Morning, Welcome to Oxford Aviation Academy but with What is your name?? How will you be paying??

There can be no excuses for oversights like this!!!

Good Luck to all those seeking redress - you deserve to be re-imbursed and not just fobbed of with a flimsy apology if you are lucky!!!

Jethro darling, where have you been in a cave for the last few years? Most airlines charge for the selection process these days and/or charge you the the endorsement. Yes the cadetship is digging the whole deeper ( and yes I applied for it!) -it sucks but it is the way it is.

A very fitting summary.

Excuse me;

But are we to gleen from this that there are ATPL holders (pilots with in excess of 1500 hours, subjects, etc), after obviously having spent thousands already, hundreds of hours in the profession, perhaps years in the industry, and are now complaining that they have been shafted for upfront fees, and will not be permitted to pay approx $210K to work up the front of an A320 clearing less money per year than a Woollies check out chick?!

CHR!ST ALL BL@@DY MIGHTY!

Candidates for the "Darwin Award" if ever I've seen 'em. :rolleyes:

$60,000 by my count

Typical Oaa when you charge $440 an hour or something for a c172! maybe it has something to do with the boss almost running off the end of 34r that avo at mb doing a circling approach in his citation at 300ft outside the circling area :}
:=

Sounds like fun. :ok::E

Why are people paying for jobs because stupid people have paid before now they want everyone to pay which is worse than working for FREE.:ugh:

Krusty
 

There are 2 streams, one for "cleanskins" and one for "Advanced cadets".

The advanced cadets paid about $60k through salary sacrifice and then through reduced salary as a Junior FO - as someone said above, a Junior FO cannot hold an ATPL and Jetstar won't or can't employ a cadet as a "Full" FO.

One of my employees fell into this one - he had already given notice and we have already filled his job :ugh:

I hope Oxford get drilled for this. It won't ruin his career but it's a hell of a knock for a confident young bloke :=

there's no 34R at MB

get your insults right

Do you work for an airline Jethro?
If not, then considering that all airlines charge for the selection process, it would be safe to assume that you will never apply to or work for an airline?
If you do work for one, how is the view from your seat? Pretty good?
Nice to be able sit up high and hang **** on guys who are only doing what it takes to get a job with the airlines these days.

Not one person has ever came out and said they agree with the way things are going. High paying G.A jobs are rare. So for guys who don`t have one of them, paying $30k for an endoresment that will give you a $30k payrise in your first year, makes perfect economical sense.

Case in point, Me.
I am enjoying my Jet* job? Yes.
Would I like to be payed more and not have payed for my endorsement? Absolutely.
Is it much more than I was on in G.A? Close to $40k more.
Do I like taking off out of Darwin and looking down at the piston`s I used to fly? More of a relief than anything.
Do I like being able to afford to live in a place with airconditioning and not neighbouring on an Aboriginal housing estate? You wanna believe it.
Do I feel bad for doing what I had to do to get where I am?
Not in the slightest. Cause they guy that would have taken my job had I not wouldn`t be giving the first damn thought about my plight.
I live in the real world , not your pilot fantasy land. Wake up to yourself.

Thanks Horatio'.

Should've read the first post more carefully.

$60K now for a Jet job, and wages comensurate with turbo-prop F/O (after salary sacrifice). Looks like the death of general entry to me!

Enjoy your povety boys and girls. :ooh:

Faaarck GA is a mess in this country. Is it better anywhere else on this planet ?

I'm not an aviation pro - recreational for me - but I am astonished at the attitude that seems to be prevalent here that you've just got to bend over and take it up the Rse.

Absolutely no way would that be acceptable in the IT world that I inhabit. Your employer needs you to have a particular skill that you don't yet have ? Then they pay for the training - the concept that I would have to pay for it myself so my employer could reap the benefit ? Ludicrously laughable !!! And this applies to ANY occupation, except, it seems, to flying an aircraft ???????????

Time for all you people to grow some cohones and say NO. Jethro is 100% correct, although his is a small voice (just like mine), and so will probably make no difference - because lots of you pilots out there working for money seem to have given up and resigned yourselves to dealing with the status quo.

You folks need a good strong union, or else get out of aviation and stop whinging.

PS. I really not having a go at pilots - this is a work issue - I'd say the same thing to brickies' labourers if they were in the same boat.... (yeah, mixing metaphors etc)

Here here BackPx.... Not a truer word spoken, perhaps I shall add my small voice to yours and together we shall make a slightly louder but still small voice....

....will it grow yet louder?

...And there it is from an "expert." The thing is, Back Pressure, in principle you are absolutely right. However, and by your own admission, you are commenting as someone on the sidelines who has the luxury of flying recreationally - rather than being in the thick of it as someone who actually is employed in this industry, and therefore has a very different perspective. As such, the comment, "don't judge a person until you've walked a mile in their shoes" comes to mind. I agree with you, only to the extent that I'm not in any kind of union organisation for the reasons you already suggest: we have no strong union in this industry; just fragmented groups that, for all their roaring, amount to little more than toothless tigers.

I'm not going to get into a long-winded rant about the many reasons people choose to be in aviation, suffice to say that once you've invested a significant part of your life - and life savings - into a particular profession, it's not always so straightforward to simply "get out and stop whinging." A return on the investment needs to be generated - even if for some it is a diminishing return. The saddest part is that our industry has come to the point where comments like Metrosmoker's are the norm, albeit completely understandable, i.e. "I should never have to pay for an endorsement to get a job, but if I don't, someone else will." In the end, you can always stand on principle with hand on heart and say NO, but doing so will only cut your nose to spite your face.

As for one of the organisations at the centre of this thread topic, I've had previous first-hand experience working for them in their former incarnation, and all I can say - with eyes rolling into the back of my head as I do so - is 'nothing surprises me.' I just thank God that this aspect of my career in aviation is now a distant memory.