CPL in an RA-Aus aircraft
How many millions of people drive cars, each day, and have no idea how they work?
Other stuff I keep telling people is THIS SH
T WILL KILL YOU IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING.You can't just coast to the side of the road if something goes wrong.
The complacent attitude of too many GA and RA pilots needs to be rectified. If you aren't willing to understand what you are doing, STAY ON THE GROUND.
This is not a dig at Super or Potts, but yeah, agree the windup worked.
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I just moved from New Zealand and I like the idea of RA license gives people like my dad the chance to fly, he only gave it up because he was sick of having to keep up with all the rules.
But any way I just moved over and I have 260TT CPL and Multi engine instrument rating, I went to a aeroclub the other day where they had RA aircraft and VH registered air craft they are only Technams. They are cheap to hour build but my question is will the hours be frowned apon when I go for interviews
But any way I just moved over and I have 260TT CPL and Multi engine instrument rating, I went to a aeroclub the other day where they had RA aircraft and VH registered air craft they are only Technams. They are cheap to hour build but my question is will the hours be frowned apon when I go for interviews
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i have thought about this as well (seeing i am only a low hr PPL ~120 hrs). However the aircraft has to be a VH registered. And in australia... i cant seem to find a flight school that has VH register LSA's. Any ideas people?
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sorry im a bit confused 
. I guess the bottom line is... if an aircraft is VH registered (regardless if its LSA or not) the hours can count CPL? If its not VH registered... then the hours are pretty much useless?
I know there are a number of rural flight schools that teach in aircraft that are registered under RAAus (ie - not VH). If i were for example to get a job with them flying - will the hours count for anything at all (for instance towards ATPL?)
cheers
. I guess the bottom line is... if an aircraft is VH registered (regardless if its LSA or not) the hours can count CPL? If its not VH registered... then the hours are pretty much useless? I know there are a number of rural flight schools that teach in aircraft that are registered under RAAus (ie - not VH). If i were for example to get a job with them flying - will the hours count for anything at all (for instance towards ATPL?)
cheers
I know there are a number of rural flight schools that teach in aircraft that are registered under RAAus (ie - not VH). If i were for example to get a job with them flying - will the hours count for anything at all (for instance towards ATPL?)
Like I said in an earlier post, they might help you get an ATPL, but that's about all. Some operators won't recognise ultralight hours to meet their requirements. You're better off having VH time
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We're looking at two different scales, RAAus and commercial flying. However who in the world jumped into the left hand seat of a jet without learning to fly?
RAAus can teach you how to fly a 3 axis aeroplane, which is what a jet is believe it or not. So lets not all forget where we came from.
RAAus is a cheaper option for ab-initio training as many don't have the thousands of dollars to start in GA from scratch. These aircraft are no different to fly to your basic C150, C172 or Piper Cherokee. So why learn the basics carting two extra seats around and paying for them.
For those who want to move onto CPL there is a need to move on to larger aircraft, a la my first statement. The regs (Another hotly contended issue) state how many hours count from RAAus to PPL, CPL and ATPL.
To land your first job you will need to have flown something bigger and faster than a Jabiru hence the reason for the regs containing a requirement to complete your CPL in a contstand speed, >120 knot aircraft.
In short RAAus aircraft have their place in the career of a pilot should they choose to begin there. They provide a fantastic starting point to a successful pilot. From RAAus onto high performance singles, twins, turbines and then jets dependant on personal desires. (Then back to RAAus to fly for fun!)
RAAus can teach you how to fly a 3 axis aeroplane, which is what a jet is believe it or not. So lets not all forget where we came from.
RAAus is a cheaper option for ab-initio training as many don't have the thousands of dollars to start in GA from scratch. These aircraft are no different to fly to your basic C150, C172 or Piper Cherokee. So why learn the basics carting two extra seats around and paying for them.
For those who want to move onto CPL there is a need to move on to larger aircraft, a la my first statement. The regs (Another hotly contended issue) state how many hours count from RAAus to PPL, CPL and ATPL.
To land your first job you will need to have flown something bigger and faster than a Jabiru hence the reason for the regs containing a requirement to complete your CPL in a contstand speed, >120 knot aircraft.
In short RAAus aircraft have their place in the career of a pilot should they choose to begin there. They provide a fantastic starting point to a successful pilot. From RAAus onto high performance singles, twins, turbines and then jets dependant on personal desires. (Then back to RAAus to fly for fun!)
CPL training in an RAA aircraft and your first job is in a C210 in remote NT?
Have to think about that one.
If a RAA flight school wants to train to CASA CPL standard with AOC and Ops Manuals and FOI audits....why would you want to submit yourself to such regulation? Unless....you want to capitalise on the streams of money that wannabes expend on the dream.
Sidetrack on this argument...whats more important...training wannabe jet jockeys or developing a base of consumers that actually spend discreationary dollars in the aviation economy. I would say more people who want to spend money on their passion/hobby/sport for their entire life.
There is nothing wrong with RAA training. It's just not to the standard expected of an operator who uses aeroplanes for hire or reward. If the standard is raised...it is no longer recreational!
Have to think about that one.
If a RAA flight school wants to train to CASA CPL standard with AOC and Ops Manuals and FOI audits....why would you want to submit yourself to such regulation? Unless....you want to capitalise on the streams of money that wannabes expend on the dream.
Sidetrack on this argument...whats more important...training wannabe jet jockeys or developing a base of consumers that actually spend discreationary dollars in the aviation economy. I would say more people who want to spend money on their passion/hobby/sport for their entire life.
There is nothing wrong with RAA training. It's just not to the standard expected of an operator who uses aeroplanes for hire or reward. If the standard is raised...it is no longer recreational!
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I beg to differ, I really don't understand why this keeps coming up. Most if not all RA-Aus instructors are GA instructors these days and the standard of RA-Aus training is very high indeed, often as high or higher than GA schools offer. With the number of GA schools closing at present due to a lack of interest and nearly no new students, RA-Aus should be considered for the full 1,500 hours for ATPL, otherwise there will be a pilot shortage.
For those interested in Recreational Aviation just google it and there you will find links to fun and friendly places to talk about Recreational Aviation in Australia. Most airline pilots these days in the large jets started in ultralights and I know of a few off hand that are flying the A380. Ultralight flying made them the pilots that they are today! Ultralights have come a long way though, from 2-stroke Thrusters to Jabirus that go faster and are better equipped than many GA aircraft on the market.
For those interested in Recreational Aviation just google it and there you will find links to fun and friendly places to talk about Recreational Aviation in Australia. Most airline pilots these days in the large jets started in ultralights and I know of a few off hand that are flying the A380. Ultralight flying made them the pilots that they are today! Ultralights have come a long way though, from 2-stroke Thrusters to Jabirus that go faster and are better equipped than many GA aircraft on the market.
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RA-Aus should be considered for the full 1,500 hours for ATPL, otherwise there will be a pilot shortage.
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Seriously, dudes. "Ian Baker" = proprietor of recreationalflying.net and RA-Aus board member. I seriously doubt he would post here.
There is, however one person here that has an obsession with Ian and is also know to work under several alter egos both on this and other sites.
I think it is safe to say that person would be the one making these postings. Mods should really delete anything posted by the Ian Baker account and the rest of us should ignore it.
m'ok?
There is, however one person here that has an obsession with Ian and is also know to work under several alter egos both on this and other sites.
I think it is safe to say that person would be the one making these postings. Mods should really delete anything posted by the Ian Baker account and the rest of us should ignore it.
m'ok?
Baswell
Nice work - I was thinking about posting exactly the same info myself. Oooh look that person has made several contributions to this thread too....
Nice work - I was thinking about posting exactly the same info myself. Oooh look that person has made several contributions to this thread too....
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Raaus definitely has a place in basic training. Day VFR syllabus is Day VFR Syllabus. Funnily enough a 3 Axis recreational aircraft is no different to fly than a Warrior, just cheaper so for basics there's no reason why not. Then move onto CSU etc at appropriate time.
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The current 750 hours which counts towards the 1500 ATPL is a happy medium that should keep both sides of the fence happy! You can't complain about that no matter where your allegiance lies. It gives a good balance of stick and rudder, along with procedures and paperwork.
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Agreed XXX.
Many of us started in Raaus and now have successful flying careers, and none of the jobs I've had ever scrutinised me for flying and beginning in Raaus. They are great for the basics and the 750 hours that count for an ATPL.
Start off in Raaus then move onto more sophisticated aircraft, it's exactly the same reasons as why u can't complete an entire CPL in a C172 or Warrior, however much can be covered in these aircraft.
Many of us started in Raaus and now have successful flying careers, and none of the jobs I've had ever scrutinised me for flying and beginning in Raaus. They are great for the basics and the 750 hours that count for an ATPL.
Start off in Raaus then move onto more sophisticated aircraft, it's exactly the same reasons as why u can't complete an entire CPL in a C172 or Warrior, however much can be covered in these aircraft.
Forgive me for playing both sides of this debate...
...but how many of you guys have actually taught RAAus -> GA conversions?
....how many have taught back the other way?
it can be BLOODY HARD to teach a RAAus guy how to pass a PPL flight test, let alone to fly properly. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it very much depends on the student's motivation and aptitude and the foundation instruction they received.
...but how many of you guys have actually taught RAAus -> GA conversions?
....how many have taught back the other way?
it can be BLOODY HARD to teach a RAAus guy how to pass a PPL flight test, let alone to fly properly. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it very much depends on the student's motivation and aptitude and the foundation instruction they received.
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Horatio in actual fact it's harder to convert a GA guy to Raaus as they often think (not always) they know everything and shouldn't need to do a conversion onto a smaller plane. Fact of the matter is it's this attitude and a lack of speed awareness and getting used to less inertia that often results in a hard transition. You must fly them properly to get the best out of them. Raaus aircraft are more demanding to fly because of the lighter weight and so Raaus have better stick and rudder skills. A GA instructor recently had no idea what aileron drag was! Look at guys who learnt in a Tiger Moth, they can all fly!
As for the theoretical and regs side, this is subjective. Raaus pilots are not rogue pilots. It's up to the individual and the same goes for any pure GA pilot. Regs are regs and we all must follow them, GA or Raaus.
If you want professional standard, do a CPL as a PPL just doesn't cut it on those stakes either. Raaus/PPL are on par as they are for private ops however they both lay the foundations for a CPL.
You speak of Raaus pilots as if they are below the knowledge level of your average person off the street and untrainable essentially. I'm a living example it is possible if you need proof. Many of us still fly Raaus for fun too.
As for the theoretical and regs side, this is subjective. Raaus pilots are not rogue pilots. It's up to the individual and the same goes for any pure GA pilot. Regs are regs and we all must follow them, GA or Raaus.
If you want professional standard, do a CPL as a PPL just doesn't cut it on those stakes either. Raaus/PPL are on par as they are for private ops however they both lay the foundations for a CPL.
You speak of Raaus pilots as if they are below the knowledge level of your average person off the street and untrainable essentially. I'm a living example it is possible if you need proof. Many of us still fly Raaus for fun too.