CPL in an RA-Aus aircraft
Why would you want to fart around in a slow little plane when you gonna fly a big fast one??
It's like learning to drive 18 Wheel Mack Truck in a Daewoo!
It's like learning to drive 18 Wheel Mack Truck in a Daewoo!
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Snatch;
Personally I think the idea of doing CPL in a rec aircraft is absurd.
My point is that it may well come to being that PVT GA recreational VFR aircraft may one day be part of Recreational Aviation in any of its mutations.
Oh, and since when did any CPL test aircraft have to be IFR? Limited panel experience is even part of the PPL syllabus and that is done regularly in C150's.
You obviously didn't read any of the ADSB threads did you. Pity, you would have seen the concept in all it's glory.
Personally I think the idea of doing CPL in a rec aircraft is absurd.
My point is that it may well come to being that PVT GA recreational VFR aircraft may one day be part of Recreational Aviation in any of its mutations.
Oh, and since when did any CPL test aircraft have to be IFR? Limited panel experience is even part of the PPL syllabus and that is done regularly in C150's.
accusing us of "eliteism"
The other thing to consider is even if you could do your CPL in an RA aircraft it might work against you (or atleast not help you) when applying for that airline job.
I was formerly a combined RAA/GA instructor and out of the 1000+ hours instructing I did in the RAA reg aircraft, how many of those did my current employer recognise? None.
I was formerly a combined RAA/GA instructor and out of the 1000+ hours instructing I did in the RAA reg aircraft, how many of those did my current employer recognise? None.
I was formerly a combined RAA/GA instructor and out of the 1000+ hours instructing I did in the RAA reg aircraft, how many of those did my current employer recognise? None.
Thats really odd..What was their explanation for ignoring command hours?Specifically I mean?
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Just remember if you make RAAus more complicated it's going to become more regulated.
But isn't that the benefit of the RAAus. The fact that it's not that regulated.
That's why we have RAAus and GA. It's always going to be that way.
But isn't that the benefit of the RAAus. The fact that it's not that regulated.
That's why we have RAAus and GA. It's always going to be that way.
So when you got to your interview they said.Ok Mav.You have 3500 hours, but Im afraid that we are only gonna count 2500 of em because you were RA..??
Thats really odd..What was their explanation for ignoring command hours?Specifically I mean?
Thats really odd..What was their explanation for ignoring command hours?Specifically I mean?
At the end of the day though, I'm not fussed about this, as I enjoyed my time RAA instructing. It's how I got a break into a GA job and I had a ball doing it. I just worry about some flying schools who will convince their students to get an RAA licence and then convert them to a PPL/CPL later on in the belief it will be more economical (that's a big maybe). In actual fact you are better off having time in a GA rego'd machine for down the track. Yes, you can count up to 750 hrs of 3-axis ultralight time towards your ATPL, but there's no point in having one if you still have to do that same time again to meet company requirements for command upgrades etc.
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Atlas, if you already owned a fast RAA machine (well, fast compared to the typical aging C152 - not all RAA aircraft are Drifters), I can see why someone would want to train in it to save some money. But I'm with Frank on this one; if you seriously want to fly for a career it just seems a silly idea.
Maybe if RAA pilots want to play with the bigger boys, CASA should start enforcing similar rules in regards to maintenance as well?
How about the RAA instructors having to meet CASA standards?
"Huh? A selective radial scan? What's that?"
Maybe CASA should start enforcing the rules for all things RAA anyway.
There are a lot of these weekend warriors that would benefit from some "guidance" from a "friendly" FOI.
Really think you will get more benefit and experience from taking some mates along on something that can carry more than just a cut lunch.
How about the RAA instructors having to meet CASA standards?
"Huh? A selective radial scan? What's that?"
Maybe CASA should start enforcing the rules for all things RAA anyway.
There are a lot of these weekend warriors that would benefit from some "guidance" from a "friendly" FOI.
Really think you will get more benefit and experience from taking some mates along on something that can carry more than just a cut lunch.
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"selective radial scan"
I have some small experience in GA, RAAus and GFA aircraft; I'm an instructor in the latter two categories. I don't put a lot of emphasis in "selective radial scan" instrument flying when teaching our instructors as maybe lookout, attitude flying and adult learning principles have a bit more priority, something that some GA instructors that I have known could do with a bit of refresher on.
The RAAus flight school I fly has only 3 regular instructors and we try (under a very inspiring CFI) to maintain the most professional standards we can in flight instruction and briefing/debriefing, mainly because we are so enthusiastic about flying ourselves.
Some of the pilots I trained in gliders now grace the command seats of B747, A320, B737 and FA18s, it is my constant job satisfaction that they got a good a start from me as I could give.
On the other hand, I am disappointed with some of the airmanship demonstrated by visiting GA pilots.
Anyway, my humble opinion is that there are very transferable basic skills from GFA/RAAus/HGFA through to GA and commercial flying (eg the Gimli B767, the Hudson River outlanding) so lets have a bit of respect for that and the fact that there are true aviators in all flight disciplines.
The RAAus flight school I fly has only 3 regular instructors and we try (under a very inspiring CFI) to maintain the most professional standards we can in flight instruction and briefing/debriefing, mainly because we are so enthusiastic about flying ourselves.
Some of the pilots I trained in gliders now grace the command seats of B747, A320, B737 and FA18s, it is my constant job satisfaction that they got a good a start from me as I could give.
On the other hand, I am disappointed with some of the airmanship demonstrated by visiting GA pilots.
Anyway, my humble opinion is that there are very transferable basic skills from GFA/RAAus/HGFA through to GA and commercial flying (eg the Gimli B767, the Hudson River outlanding) so lets have a bit of respect for that and the fact that there are true aviators in all flight disciplines.
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Hornet - I dont think any of us have a lack of repsect for any pilot even if they do only hold a pilot certificate. I think what is being debated here is the ability for a RAA certificated to pilot move on to a commercial license
To be honest to defend the "visiting GA pilots" I think we all could sit here and tell stories about Commercial and Private Pilots and RAA flyers all day long because lets face it we all make mistakes - but really in my opinion some of the RAA guys take the cake I mean have those guys even heard of radios? Serpentine guys need to really discover 135.25 its amazing what you get to hear when you change from 92.9 to 135.25 you get to hear traffic alerts, hear other aircraft broadcasting their position, hear them advise you when they are over your field, even when they are just in the area they'll jump in and say "Hey Serpentine traffic just wanted to let you know Im within 30 miles of you clowns so next time you are buzzing around without a care in the world how bout you let me know your in the area and Ill do the same and then we wont bang into each other and make a big burnt hole in the earth together hey????"
Well I suppose I can hope and dream - Safer Skys for all....thats all Im after.....my wife wants to see me home tonight
Mike
To be honest to defend the "visiting GA pilots" I think we all could sit here and tell stories about Commercial and Private Pilots and RAA flyers all day long because lets face it we all make mistakes - but really in my opinion some of the RAA guys take the cake I mean have those guys even heard of radios? Serpentine guys need to really discover 135.25 its amazing what you get to hear when you change from 92.9 to 135.25 you get to hear traffic alerts, hear other aircraft broadcasting their position, hear them advise you when they are over your field, even when they are just in the area they'll jump in and say "Hey Serpentine traffic just wanted to let you know Im within 30 miles of you clowns so next time you are buzzing around without a care in the world how bout you let me know your in the area and Ill do the same and then we wont bang into each other and make a big burnt hole in the earth together hey????"
Well I suppose I can hope and dream - Safer Skys for all....thats all Im after.....my wife wants to see me home tonight
Mike
For god's sake...
It's not about one group being better than any other group of pilots. RAAus is Primary school. GA CPL is High School, and it is what qualifies you to go on to University.
Nobody is saying that Primary school kids can't go on to University.. it's just that you have to do more, learn more, learn some different stuff.
Life is full of barriers to entry. Hard work is rewarded. If you want to achieve the prize, put in the work.
...or do you think we should all automatically qualify for the olympics because we could run pretty fast when we were kids?
It's not about one group being better than any other group of pilots. RAAus is Primary school. GA CPL is High School, and it is what qualifies you to go on to University.
Nobody is saying that Primary school kids can't go on to University.. it's just that you have to do more, learn more, learn some different stuff.
Life is full of barriers to entry. Hard work is rewarded. If you want to achieve the prize, put in the work.
...or do you think we should all automatically qualify for the olympics because we could run pretty fast when we were kids?
Agreed, Leafblower has put it in a much more concise context.
My point was RA doesn't teach IF, which is a required item of the PPL and CPL syllabussessesss.
You want to fly at a CPL level, go to CPL instructors at CPL schools.
BTW, I know plenty of GA instructors who have crossed to RA and do teach to the GA level, but I have also had MANY RA students who have had to be restarted from the beginning because their standard of knowledge was absolutely pathetic.
Best was a student who took four lessons to get anywhere near a stall because he kept trying to grab the controls off me to stop the demo.
His first RA instructor thought it would demonstrate what a fantasic pilot he was by putting the Jabiru into a spin as his initial demo for stalling.
My point was RA doesn't teach IF, which is a required item of the PPL and CPL syllabussessesss.
You want to fly at a CPL level, go to CPL instructors at CPL schools.
BTW, I know plenty of GA instructors who have crossed to RA and do teach to the GA level, but I have also had MANY RA students who have had to be restarted from the beginning because their standard of knowledge was absolutely pathetic.
Best was a student who took four lessons to get anywhere near a stall because he kept trying to grab the controls off me to stop the demo.
His first RA instructor thought it would demonstrate what a fantasic pilot he was by putting the Jabiru into a spin as his initial demo for stalling.
Best was a student who took four lessons to get anywhere near a stall because he kept trying to grab the controls off me to stop the demo.
Frank Arouet
Oh, and since when did any CPL test aircraft have to be IFR? Limited panel experience is even part of the PPL syllabus and that is done regularly in C150's.
I have over 800 hours instructing in (ex VH) Gazelles with a full GA panel. However, over the last 3-4 years I have seen a lot of factory-built RAAus aircraft with some pretty wierd setups for attitude instruments and some very strange panel layouts
I like post #34 by HL.
If instructors in RAAus properly teach the fundamentals of attitude flying - then this hoary chestnut about a couple hours IF making all the difference will disappear. More & more RAA aircraft now have full panels, and it's not hard to cover attitude interpretation when referring back to the panel for confirmation of performance in the course of ab initio training.
Lets' keep some perspective here. If we strike a poorly performing pilot, whether it be GA or RAA - it's not the syllabus, or the system - it's an instructor problem. That's where we need to look.
I guess you can then make the comparisons between GA and RAA in terms of the minimum standards for instructors. My wishlist includes the new CEO of RAAus looking at the whole instructor structure, and lifting it's skills accross the board.
happy days,
If instructors in RAAus properly teach the fundamentals of attitude flying - then this hoary chestnut about a couple hours IF making all the difference will disappear. More & more RAA aircraft now have full panels, and it's not hard to cover attitude interpretation when referring back to the panel for confirmation of performance in the course of ab initio training.
Lets' keep some perspective here. If we strike a poorly performing pilot, whether it be GA or RAA - it's not the syllabus, or the system - it's an instructor problem. That's where we need to look.
I guess you can then make the comparisons between GA and RAA in terms of the minimum standards for instructors. My wishlist includes the new CEO of RAAus looking at the whole instructor structure, and lifting it's skills accross the board.
happy days,
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can you see CASA viewing Gazelles and Foxbats in any other way?
But again;
My point is that it may well come to being that PVT GA recreational VFR aircraft may one day be part of Recreational Aviation in any of its mutations.
If that ever happens in my life time, and there is anything left of PVT GA to administer, Ian Baker should put his question to CASA then.
If instructors in RAAus properly teach the fundamentals of attitude flying
I acknowledge there are quite a few who do, but there are many who don't. I have even heard of an RA examiner who tells instructor candidates they are giving too much information when they present a standard GA turning brief! The explanation is they don't need to know why the plane flies, just how to do it. Same person who says they won't make radio calls because the AIP only recommends them. Apparently they aren't mandatory so shouldn't be made.
ABSOLUTE BULLS
IT.RA wants the priveledges of airspace and now CPL instruction? What next? Aerobatics, NVFR and IFR?
For f
ck's sake! IF YOU WANT TO FLY AT THIS LEVEL, FLY THESE AIRCRAFT AND GET TAUGHT BY COMMERCIALLY EXPERIENCED INSTRUCTORS.
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I still think that doing a CPL in an RAA aircraft is a dumb idea, but
How many millions of people drive cars, each day, and have no idea how they work?
It seems to me that a ton of stuff could be chopped out of the syllabus without compromising real-world safety. I hate to think how many brain cells are wasted on decoding weather and NOTAMs written in Aviation gobbledygook when it could be offered in a plain english option.
The explanation is they don't need to know why the plane flies, just how to do it
It seems to me that a ton of stuff could be chopped out of the syllabus without compromising real-world safety. I hate to think how many brain cells are wasted on decoding weather and NOTAMs written in Aviation gobbledygook when it could be offered in a plain english option.
The original post was an obvious windup - intended only to polarise opinion, and it's certainly achieved that.
99.99% of RAAus members have no need of, or intention to, usurp GA's role in flying. Only a few dreamers and wannabe's are involved in the stirring of GA.
The mainstream of RAAus has no interest in CTA flying, in night flying, in aerobatics, in doing CPL's, in charter, or in anything other than A to B flying on a nice day in a little 'ol 2 seater.
As to the instructor quality within RAAus, as mentioned in a recent post - well, it ranges from high hours GrI's with RPT and GA CHTR experience right thru to the basic RAA rating. Yes, it does vary, and that's undeniable. CASA clearly doesn't want to become closely involved in micro-managing every splinter group in aviation - that's why each group, (eg, GFA,HGA,RAA), is self administering. So far, their intervention hasn't appeared necessary, and even were it so, they are too busy with closer surveillance of GA instruction quality as a priority.
happy days,
99.99% of RAAus members have no need of, or intention to, usurp GA's role in flying. Only a few dreamers and wannabe's are involved in the stirring of GA.
The mainstream of RAAus has no interest in CTA flying, in night flying, in aerobatics, in doing CPL's, in charter, or in anything other than A to B flying on a nice day in a little 'ol 2 seater.
As to the instructor quality within RAAus, as mentioned in a recent post - well, it ranges from high hours GrI's with RPT and GA CHTR experience right thru to the basic RAA rating. Yes, it does vary, and that's undeniable. CASA clearly doesn't want to become closely involved in micro-managing every splinter group in aviation - that's why each group, (eg, GFA,HGA,RAA), is self administering. So far, their intervention hasn't appeared necessary, and even were it so, they are too busy with closer surveillance of GA instruction quality as a priority.
happy days,