Is RACWA on finals? YOU WERE WARNED!!
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I heard another Jandakot operator is paying its pilots $15/hr on contract.
Cannot understand how this company is still in business..
Im sure the metro's will get them out of trouble...
short flights long nights
I really would like to put something here in perspective....almost 30 years ago..yes people 30 years ago I started at the RACWA as an Instructor UNDER an award ( for those who dont know what that means, it was a contract you were employed by)...I just checked the tax slip I still have and I earned 19000 dollars for the year..in 1979.
I am not making this up.. happy to send proof
If people are silly enough to work for $15 an hour in 2010..then this industy is really doomed..the race to the bottom has started and I think nearly finished
I mean look upwards a minute, one day, you might have a wife and kids to support..on 15 bucks an hour????
I am not making this up.. happy to send proof
If people are silly enough to work for $15 an hour in 2010..then this industy is really doomed..the race to the bottom has started and I think nearly finished
I mean look upwards a minute, one day, you might have a wife and kids to support..on 15 bucks an hour????
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@sunfish: That doesn't sound right. Mowing lawns should get you at least 3 times that per hour. It is a sad fact that mowing lawns/working for bunnings/macdonalds pays better than the grade 3 instructors' wage at any jandakot operator.
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what do all you Gr 3's have to say about it ? If its true and you're only getting $15/h then its time to look elsewhere.for an employer who values his employees.
Otherwise you're all suckers and will never beat the family pizza !
Otherwise you're all suckers and will never beat the family pizza !
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The Australian minimum wage is $15 per hour:
Minimum wage lifted to $570 a week
Minimum wage lifted to $570 a week
It is a sad fact that mowing lawns/working for bunnings/macdonalds pays better than the grade 3 instructors' wage at any jandakot operator.
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The operator paying $15 an hour to their pilots was a CONTRACT rate based on chargeable flying hours. No superannuation, holiday, sick leave, workers compensation etc. Not to mention the 80/20 rule issue.
If I answer the ATO question of Employee/Contractor here:
Employee/contractor decision tool
it appears that the pilots should be Employees not contractors.
If I answer the ATO question of Employee/Contractor here:
Employee/contractor decision tool
it appears that the pilots should be Employees not contractors.
it appears that the pilots should be Employees not contractors.
Moderator
The employee/contractor debate has been well covered in many threads.
Bigdifference between having an ABN and bing a contractor! As mentioned it is a way for the EMPLOYER to dodge his obligations re. compo, public liability, super etc etc and the newbie accepting this makes them a party to this scam and no better than the employer in my view- the info is all out there on the internet - and certainly not in a position to grumble about it.
Using the most basic definition, ie that an independant contractor controls HOW he carries out his work, is negated by the requirements for supervision of a CFI and to comply with an ops manual.
Unfortunately the tax office don't give a hoot unless they are out of pocket by a substantial amount. So this practice will continue until these people have the guts to stand up to potential EMPLOYERS and say no, it's the award or nothing; until then they get the wage that they deserve.
On this thread we have had people who seem to have intimate knowledge of confidential financial information of flying schools. Now have experts who know exactly that every single grade three at Jandakot is on $15 per hour!
Bigdifference between having an ABN and bing a contractor! As mentioned it is a way for the EMPLOYER to dodge his obligations re. compo, public liability, super etc etc and the newbie accepting this makes them a party to this scam and no better than the employer in my view- the info is all out there on the internet - and certainly not in a position to grumble about it.
Using the most basic definition, ie that an independant contractor controls HOW he carries out his work, is negated by the requirements for supervision of a CFI and to comply with an ops manual.
Unfortunately the tax office don't give a hoot unless they are out of pocket by a substantial amount. So this practice will continue until these people have the guts to stand up to potential EMPLOYERS and say no, it's the award or nothing; until then they get the wage that they deserve.
On this thread we have had people who seem to have intimate knowledge of confidential financial information of flying schools. Now have experts who know exactly that every single grade three at Jandakot is on $15 per hour!
IMO the ones that dodge their obligations to their employees, also cut corners in other financial areas.
TAC paid their grade 3 employees as contractors (around 2004 anyway). Only once they became 'experienced' did they get put on the books as employees. I'm not sure about other places, but every company that has tried these tactics have fallen on their arse. I'm pretty sure RACWA did/does as well.
There is a legitimate organisation called ACS (Australian Contracting Solutions) where you can process your employees as contractors legally. I have yet to see this type of operation end up in the aviation circles however.
The good ones pay well, attract the right people, and the business generally prospers.
TAC paid their grade 3 employees as contractors (around 2004 anyway). Only once they became 'experienced' did they get put on the books as employees. I'm not sure about other places, but every company that has tried these tactics have fallen on their arse. I'm pretty sure RACWA did/does as well.
There is a legitimate organisation called ACS (Australian Contracting Solutions) where you can process your employees as contractors legally. I have yet to see this type of operation end up in the aviation circles however.
The good ones pay well, attract the right people, and the business generally prospers.
Last edited by The Green Goblin; 14th Dec 2010 at 06:33.
A couple of years ago the casual rate for SE charter was 45 odd dollars per flying hour if it's worked out as the award suggests.
ANYWAY... back to how screwed RACWA are...
ANYWAY... back to how screwed RACWA are...
The good ones pay well, attract the right people, and the business generally prospers.
Johnny_56, at least give the new committee a chance. They did go in with their eyes wide open and are under no illusions whatsoever about the problems they face.
Sorry, I'm not saying they don't deserve a chance. Good luck to them... I'm just saying that they sound like they might need luck to get out of their predicament.
It sounds like they are in a bit of a vicious cycle now -Big debt from WAAC and whatever - no students for WAAC possibly because of HECS/ECU - unable to pay big debt - need to raise membership/rates for aircraft to raise money - scare business away - still unable to pay debt.
As i said before it would be a shame to see RACWA fail, but the culture in the place needs to be changed. There has been a sense of entitlement in the place for ages, resting on the good reputation of the club which has now been sullied.
It sounds like they are in a bit of a vicious cycle now -Big debt from WAAC and whatever - no students for WAAC possibly because of HECS/ECU - unable to pay big debt - need to raise membership/rates for aircraft to raise money - scare business away - still unable to pay debt.
As i said before it would be a shame to see RACWA fail, but the culture in the place needs to be changed. There has been a sense of entitlement in the place for ages, resting on the good reputation of the club which has now been sullied.
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Well I have certainly taken an interest in the comments regarding RACWA. For those that arent aware of it there are many changes taking place under the new committee which will get the club back to being a Club and a premeir flying school.
I fly there and yes some of the aircraft are old but they are well maintained and safe. In a decade of flying none of my passengers have said any bad things about the aircraft and have enjoyed the privilege of flight. The pricing is consistent with other schools and clubs along the strip, yes I do fly other aircraft at other schools. The title of the thread indicates RACWA is in for the fullstop after finals but there are many of us that beleive with the new committee and new attitudes being fostered it will be a "touch and Go" with a positive climb out!
I fly there and yes some of the aircraft are old but they are well maintained and safe. In a decade of flying none of my passengers have said any bad things about the aircraft and have enjoyed the privilege of flight. The pricing is consistent with other schools and clubs along the strip, yes I do fly other aircraft at other schools. The title of the thread indicates RACWA is in for the fullstop after finals but there are many of us that beleive with the new committee and new attitudes being fostered it will be a "touch and Go" with a positive climb out!
Yes Guys & Gals, there will be some changes, I am sure.
The best place to air your views / hear about the changes /progress or whatever, is at the 'INFO Meeting' tomorrow night, WED 15th Dec at 7pm at RACWA Clubhouse.
ONE THING I have heard - is that the Chippy, RWI will continue to be 'on line' at the club - so, if you wanna do your 'taildragger' endo....
NOW would be good time to book in....
Cheers
The best place to air your views / hear about the changes /progress or whatever, is at the 'INFO Meeting' tomorrow night, WED 15th Dec at 7pm at RACWA Clubhouse.
ONE THING I have heard - is that the Chippy, RWI will continue to be 'on line' at the club - so, if you wanna do your 'taildragger' endo....
NOW would be good time to book in....
Cheers
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Lonewolf - I suggest you are also very much alone in your views.
"the aircraft are old but they are well maintained and safe" - how many occassions of heavy landings, overspeed, over G'd, etc etc. A coat of paint and new interior doesn't make them safe. Many acircraft are over 30years old and I suspect riddled with fatigue issues and simply a liability everytime they take to the air. Your passengers are probably overwhelmed with the experience of flight, but they cant see what is under the paint, under the cowls and certianly dont know the age of the airframe.
Get real, if RACWA are to get off the ground again, they need a whole new approach. The new committee is from the dark ages and retired, they dont have the energy, the business skills and certianly don't have the vision required to drag a burning RACWA from the jaws of the administrator.
RACWA is on short finals!
"the aircraft are old but they are well maintained and safe" - how many occassions of heavy landings, overspeed, over G'd, etc etc. A coat of paint and new interior doesn't make them safe. Many acircraft are over 30years old and I suspect riddled with fatigue issues and simply a liability everytime they take to the air. Your passengers are probably overwhelmed with the experience of flight, but they cant see what is under the paint, under the cowls and certianly dont know the age of the airframe.
Get real, if RACWA are to get off the ground again, they need a whole new approach. The new committee is from the dark ages and retired, they dont have the energy, the business skills and certianly don't have the vision required to drag a burning RACWA from the jaws of the administrator.
RACWA is on short finals!
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Hey Wiley I would probably check the CASA regulations regarding maintenance as well as the Service directives by the various aircraft manufacturers before suggesting RACWAs maintenance consists of a lick of paint and a squirt of armoural. I have seen new engines fitted and new wings fitted to various aircraft.
I am disappointed to see your comments regarding the new committee as you clearly havent taken the time to even research who is on the board or their qualifications.
I am disappointed to see your comments regarding the new committee as you clearly havent taken the time to even research who is on the board or their qualifications.
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wylie cyote, I don't think the wolf is as alone as you suggest. RACWA's aircraft might be an aged fleet, but they sustain no more hard landings, incorrect flight parameters, or harsh student treatment as other flight schools - we are all human and learning to fly an aircraft! If they maintain their fleet then i've no problems learning to fly in older aircraft. The quality of the instruction is what counts, no?
Also, how about some positivity. The situation is dire and should never have been allowed to develop, however it did. But there's a new committee and president (who by the way doesn't look old enough to retire) and perhaps if you feel you can add value, why don't you?
Also, how about some positivity. The situation is dire and should never have been allowed to develop, however it did. But there's a new committee and president (who by the way doesn't look old enough to retire) and perhaps if you feel you can add value, why don't you?
Gee 'Wiley'........
There are many many aircraft more than 30 yrs old STILL aviating VERY SAFELY!!
Plenty of 'old' DC-3's etc etc still around to tell the tale...
I used to fly a certain 210 that is over 35 yrs old, and it is STILL going strong 'up North', and earning its owner an 'honest income'.
It has been maintained according to schedule, and is in very good nick!!
A new paint job would certainly make it LOOK better - but it would still be the same, safe, well maintained 210.....
Cheers
There are many many aircraft more than 30 yrs old STILL aviating VERY SAFELY!!
Plenty of 'old' DC-3's etc etc still around to tell the tale...
I used to fly a certain 210 that is over 35 yrs old, and it is STILL going strong 'up North', and earning its owner an 'honest income'.
It has been maintained according to schedule, and is in very good nick!!
A new paint job would certainly make it LOOK better - but it would still be the same, safe, well maintained 210.....
Cheers