V Australia HR Shame..
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can give a little insight into this exact situation. We love to blame HR and management when things like this happen, but the truth is that some pilot accepted the job and then backed out last minute...after all the interviewing, training setup, etc was done. It left Vaustralia with 2 days to find guys to interview (THU/FRI) and find a guy who could start on Monday. A tough ask for the company and for the guy who could do it.
Now I have always said that "LUCK" = Opportunity + preparation.
I was at headquarters Vaustralia on Wednesday for a meeting and heard that they were looking for guys on short notice. I had a friend who wanted a job at V and he was a good candidate. I told my manager about him, he said "can he interview tomorrow and start on Monday?"....so I called him.
He was on holiday in Sydney, but he said "no problem, I have my interview suit with me and I am ready to go. (preparation). I asked my manager to call him, they did, he interviewed on Friday and because he was a good guy and had a great relationship with his current boss....he was offered the job and was able to start on Monday. He helped the company...the company helped him. When the "opportunity" represented itself, he was "prepared" and some would say he is lucky. I would just say that he did the right thing.
So you can bitch all you want about V and what they did, but the truth is a pilot screwed them and when the opportunity struck, you weren't prepared and therefore we could say you were "unlucky". Personally though, I would just say that you were unprepared and I am glad that you aren't going to be coming to V anytime soon.
Now I have always said that "LUCK" = Opportunity + preparation.
I was at headquarters Vaustralia on Wednesday for a meeting and heard that they were looking for guys on short notice. I had a friend who wanted a job at V and he was a good candidate. I told my manager about him, he said "can he interview tomorrow and start on Monday?"....so I called him.
He was on holiday in Sydney, but he said "no problem, I have my interview suit with me and I am ready to go. (preparation). I asked my manager to call him, they did, he interviewed on Friday and because he was a good guy and had a great relationship with his current boss....he was offered the job and was able to start on Monday. He helped the company...the company helped him. When the "opportunity" represented itself, he was "prepared" and some would say he is lucky. I would just say that he did the right thing.
So you can bitch all you want about V and what they did, but the truth is a pilot screwed them and when the opportunity struck, you weren't prepared and therefore we could say you were "unlucky". Personally though, I would just say that you were unprepared and I am glad that you aren't going to be coming to V anytime soon.
Why on earth are V finding themselves so short of candidates at such late notice ? It sounds like HR really don't have their act together and / or they attract candidates that submit an application but can't really be bothered with the interview process for the terms and conditions on offer, which to my mind is a little unusual. Although it has to be said these terms and conditions plumb new lows for a long haul operation out of Australia.
UAL Furlough
I’m sorry that is a bull sh*t excuse. Vaus are living pay check to pay check in regards to pilot recruitment. It is a classic sign of a disorganised HR department unable to organise sufficient interviews to build a proper hold file. Any organisation that expects any candidate to interview with 24 hours notice and then be able to start a few days later deserves the candidates it gets, i.e. the ones that will leave you in the lurch at the most inopportune time when a better offer comes along.
I’m sorry that is a bull sh*t excuse. Vaus are living pay check to pay check in regards to pilot recruitment. It is a classic sign of a disorganised HR department unable to organise sufficient interviews to build a proper hold file. Any organisation that expects any candidate to interview with 24 hours notice and then be able to start a few days later deserves the candidates it gets, i.e. the ones that will leave you in the lurch at the most inopportune time when a better offer comes along.
We love to blame HR and management when things like this happen, but the truth is that some pilot accepted the job and then backed out last minute
If it's the latter then V have noone to blame but themselves.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Titan,
Whatever...I am so SICK of people in this world blaming others for their misfortune. I guess I am old school....when the going gets tough, I pull MYSELF up by the bootstraps and move forward. I don't expect the government to take care of me and I don't blame others for my misfortune.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid".
Whatever...I am so SICK of people in this world blaming others for their misfortune. I guess I am old school....when the going gets tough, I pull MYSELF up by the bootstraps and move forward. I don't expect the government to take care of me and I don't blame others for my misfortune.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid".
At the interview:
'How did you get here on such short notice?'
'Well, I pulled sick, dumped the pax where they stood and jerked around my mates who then had to come in on their days off and cover for me'.
If they hire people like that, both parties will be getting exactly what they deserve.
'How did you get here on such short notice?'
'Well, I pulled sick, dumped the pax where they stood and jerked around my mates who then had to come in on their days off and cover for me'.
If they hire people like that, both parties will be getting exactly what they deserve.
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 9th Mar 2010 at 13:40.
UAL Furlough
You may think you are old school but you are demonstrating a classic Gen “Y” characteristic in expecting a prospective new employee to show absolutely no loyalty to his current employer. If you really want employees like that you can have them.
All the rest you have written regarding people in this world blaming others for their misfortune is complete garbage and is simply you throwing up a smoke screen and trying to deflect everyone’s attention from the fact that Vaus’s HR department is in complete disarray.
You may think you are old school but you are demonstrating a classic Gen “Y” characteristic in expecting a prospective new employee to show absolutely no loyalty to his current employer. If you really want employees like that you can have them.
All the rest you have written regarding people in this world blaming others for their misfortune is complete garbage and is simply you throwing up a smoke screen and trying to deflect everyone’s attention from the fact that Vaus’s HR department is in complete disarray.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its like a sad comedy..
If you take the perspective from any other professional industry, you'll see just how unprofessional V has been here.
They're playing to a captive audience which is how they get away with it.
By pandering to it and justifying it, you are only allowing the industry to be dragged further into the gutter.
But of course 90% of those who "just love flying" won't see it this way.
They're playing to a captive audience which is how they get away with it.
By pandering to it and justifying it, you are only allowing the industry to be dragged further into the gutter.
But of course 90% of those who "just love flying" won't see it this way.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Stralya
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As UAL Furlough (who is most DEFINITELY NOT Gen-Y BTW :-))has just pointed out, VA had a late notice cancellation of an interview slot and were looking to fill it with someone who was available on short notice. Nobody in our airline EXPECTS anybody to burn any bridges, it was quite simply an opportunity that came up on short notice and we would expect potential interview candidates presented with this opportunity to, - BY THEMSELVES - decide whether they are in a position to come in on the short notice that was the case, on this particular occasion.
Normally, ample notice is provided and there will be plenty of interview opportunities later in the year, as the new aircraft are arriving.
And to the starter of this thread; - to suggest that our HR-people are on "the bong" is probably not the best way to deal with this issue, seeing that you are (or at the very least WERE) - interested in a career with VA, as evidenced by the fact that you have of your own volition applied for a job with VA.
To start winging before you even have come in to the interview, strongly suggests that you may not be the kind of person that I, or any of the other flight crew would really care to share a cockpit with for any length of time anyway
C'est la vie
Normally, ample notice is provided and there will be plenty of interview opportunities later in the year, as the new aircraft are arriving.
And to the starter of this thread; - to suggest that our HR-people are on "the bong" is probably not the best way to deal with this issue, seeing that you are (or at the very least WERE) - interested in a career with VA, as evidenced by the fact that you have of your own volition applied for a job with VA.
To start winging before you even have come in to the interview, strongly suggests that you may not be the kind of person that I, or any of the other flight crew would really care to share a cockpit with for any length of time anyway
C'est la vie
Red Jet
I never said he was Gen "Y". I said he was demonstrating a characteristic of one, which you are as well. No working pilot should be expected to drop everything at short notice to attend an interview and under no circumstances be expected to start with anything less than 2 weeks notice to current employer. Most require more for your information.
We quite often have cancellations in interviews at short notice. The slot goes vacant as we have a hold file which allows us to fill course dates with plenty of notice to the succesful applicants.
I never said he was Gen "Y". I said he was demonstrating a characteristic of one, which you are as well. No working pilot should be expected to drop everything at short notice to attend an interview and under no circumstances be expected to start with anything less than 2 weeks notice to current employer. Most require more for your information.
We quite often have cancellations in interviews at short notice. The slot goes vacant as we have a hold file which allows us to fill course dates with plenty of notice to the succesful applicants.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Stralya
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We quite often have cancellations in interviews at short notice. The slot goes vacant as we have a hold file which allows us to fill course dates with plenty of notice to the succesful applicants.
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In the land of smog
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
UAL Furlough
So you can bitch all you want about V and what they did, but the truth is a pilot screwed them and when the opportunity struck, you weren't prepared and therefore we could say you were "unlucky". Personally though, I would just say that you were unprepared and I am glad that you aren't going to be coming to V anytime soon.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Somewhere up there
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok its' time to lay this one to rest.
By doing this I would hope that those reading will show some respect for me by not taking my part in this thread any further.
By replying I am interested in protecting my integrity as it has been questioned.
I was phoned for the interview at short notice - so were 3 other candidates all in a position where they were able to start on Monday.
I was on holidays in Sydney at the time on the first week of 3 weeks annual leave.
With me I had my suit and all I needed for any potential interview - I decided that I should be prepared although the chances of anything happening were low.
I had been preparing for a potential interview since December - knowing that the industry was picking up and that this year is going to be a big year for the aviation industry.
In regards to walking out on my employer - not true. I worked for a company who's core business is not aviation. I spoke to the board members and let them know it was my intention to find a full time flying job this year. They were extremely supportive.
Being that I was one week into 3 weeks annual leave and the other pilot was able to cover the flying workload; my short notice in leaving the company is no issue.
As to questioning why someone would work for V Australia - remember that each person has their own reasons for working where they work.
Swift
By doing this I would hope that those reading will show some respect for me by not taking my part in this thread any further.
By replying I am interested in protecting my integrity as it has been questioned.
I was phoned for the interview at short notice - so were 3 other candidates all in a position where they were able to start on Monday.
I was on holidays in Sydney at the time on the first week of 3 weeks annual leave.
With me I had my suit and all I needed for any potential interview - I decided that I should be prepared although the chances of anything happening were low.
I had been preparing for a potential interview since December - knowing that the industry was picking up and that this year is going to be a big year for the aviation industry.
In regards to walking out on my employer - not true. I worked for a company who's core business is not aviation. I spoke to the board members and let them know it was my intention to find a full time flying job this year. They were extremely supportive.
Being that I was one week into 3 weeks annual leave and the other pilot was able to cover the flying workload; my short notice in leaving the company is no issue.
As to questioning why someone would work for V Australia - remember that each person has their own reasons for working where they work.
Swift
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: BNE
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There really is no need for preperation.
Just turning up should secure you the position as cruise FO.
We are soon to drop the entry requirements to 500hrs total and a heartbeat.
All successfull applicants can expect a very long time sitting in the back.
See you at the sausage sizzle.
Just turning up should secure you the position as cruise FO.
We are soon to drop the entry requirements to 500hrs total and a heartbeat.
All successfull applicants can expect a very long time sitting in the back.
See you at the sausage sizzle.
Swift6
Well it’s good to hear that you were on holidays when you had the late notice for interview. Personally I don’t know how you would know the individual circumstances of the three other candidates but that is beside the point. The point I and others are making is that candidates shouldn’t be asked in the first place to drop everything and attend an interview and worse still be expected to start with only four days notice to their current employer. If it was a case you put on your application that you could start immediately I would have serious doubts about your potential loyalty as an employee and whether you would leave us in the lurch as well? The only exception would be if you are currently unemployed. What would you have done if the interview was right at the end of your holidays?
Red Jet
You delay the course. Simple.
Well it’s good to hear that you were on holidays when you had the late notice for interview. Personally I don’t know how you would know the individual circumstances of the three other candidates but that is beside the point. The point I and others are making is that candidates shouldn’t be asked in the first place to drop everything and attend an interview and worse still be expected to start with only four days notice to their current employer. If it was a case you put on your application that you could start immediately I would have serious doubts about your potential loyalty as an employee and whether you would leave us in the lurch as well? The only exception would be if you are currently unemployed. What would you have done if the interview was right at the end of your holidays?
Red Jet
You delay the course. Simple.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Stralya
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You delay the course. Simple.
We already had 5 candidates that had flown in to the venue ready to get crackin' and with the sim-schedule being what it is, I'd imagine that the person(s) who decided on this, thought the right thing to do would be to try to fill the slot that had been left vacant by the last minute cancellation.
I don't think the company has acted immorally (or expected anybody to do likewise) and it sounds like the successful last minute candidate still has his integrity intact, so perhaps it is time to move on as Swift6 suggested.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Somewhere up there
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Titan - No I didn't put on my application that I could start immediately.
I knew one of the candidates already and I got to know one of the other candidates prior to the interview.
I can see your point about someone walking out on a job thats not right - however in my situation this was definately not the case.
If you read my previous post you would have read that the company I worked for previously was not an aviation business. I had the support of the board members and my managers. If it happened at the end of my holidays the situation would have been exactly the same - I would have spoken to my employer to ensure it was ok with them.
The flying load in the months ahead can and is being handled by the other pilot. I was fortunate to have a very good working relationship with my employer and thus they were happy to see me move on.
When my training is finished I will spend a few days (of my own time) finishing off the non time critical projects I was working on and ensure a proper handover.
As far as things go on the airlines side of the story - They had someone pull out at the last minute; they needed the position filled. Four people were interviewed at short notice all able to start on Monday. I do not see delaying the course as an option! In a perfect world maybe, but we all know that we do not live in a perfect world and if an airline requires crew by a certain date then they have to do what it takes to make it happen.
This is my final say in the matter - I hope this clears the situation for those that are so concerned.
Swift
I knew one of the candidates already and I got to know one of the other candidates prior to the interview.
I can see your point about someone walking out on a job thats not right - however in my situation this was definately not the case.
If you read my previous post you would have read that the company I worked for previously was not an aviation business. I had the support of the board members and my managers. If it happened at the end of my holidays the situation would have been exactly the same - I would have spoken to my employer to ensure it was ok with them.
The flying load in the months ahead can and is being handled by the other pilot. I was fortunate to have a very good working relationship with my employer and thus they were happy to see me move on.
When my training is finished I will spend a few days (of my own time) finishing off the non time critical projects I was working on and ensure a proper handover.
As far as things go on the airlines side of the story - They had someone pull out at the last minute; they needed the position filled. Four people were interviewed at short notice all able to start on Monday. I do not see delaying the course as an option! In a perfect world maybe, but we all know that we do not live in a perfect world and if an airline requires crew by a certain date then they have to do what it takes to make it happen.
This is my final say in the matter - I hope this clears the situation for those that are so concerned.
Swift
Swift6
You would be surprised how flexible an airlines training machine can be regarding courses dates if required.
You are very fortunate that you had such an understanding employer. 99% wouldn’t be that understanding. That said I’m old school and even if I was on good terms with an employer, I wouldn’t leave them with such short notice. By the way what was the notice of resignation requirement in your old contract? Anything less than that, no matter how good a relationship you have with your employer is a most definite no no.
You would be surprised how flexible an airlines training machine can be regarding courses dates if required.
You are very fortunate that you had such an understanding employer. 99% wouldn’t be that understanding. That said I’m old school and even if I was on good terms with an employer, I wouldn’t leave them with such short notice. By the way what was the notice of resignation requirement in your old contract? Anything less than that, no matter how good a relationship you have with your employer is a most definite no no.