PC12 Glide Approach
.............ahhh I love reading all this, I think I'll take a copy of it all when next I'm out over tiger country in IMC at night trying to get those damn PROPS in sync not even thinking of where to go if one fails, well not much anyway!
I watch the PC's T/off from EN at times where there is nothing but built up area's & simply scratch my head & that's when the sky is clear!!
Now now "RC" don't stir up wally too much, am fragile ya know!:-) That particular task you mentioned WYY-AD we knocked back (thank God not wanting to get out of bed for that!!! as too many dead legs to be economical, yr welcome to it in the PC!!.............sheeez yr brave buddy They glide a loooooooong way that's for sure, fantastic, wanna glide? go fly a glider mate!
Wmk2, Oh I'm excited here feeling safe
I watch the PC's T/off from EN at times where there is nothing but built up area's & simply scratch my head & that's when the sky is clear!!
Now now "RC" don't stir up wally too much, am fragile ya know!:-) That particular task you mentioned WYY-AD we knocked back (thank God not wanting to get out of bed for that!!! as too many dead legs to be economical, yr welcome to it in the PC!!.............sheeez yr brave buddy
They glide a loooooooong way that's for sure, fantastic, wanna glide? go fly a glider mate!Wmk2, Oh I'm excited here feeling safe
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It is true the last accident for the RFDS was a KingAir with both engines operating! Not sure if a reason has really ever been found.
I have heard that RFDS Qld section will be moving one from the PC12's. Is this true or rumuor?
I have heard that RFDS Qld section will be moving one from the PC12's. Is this true or rumuor?
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It has been a while since i've sifted through documents and operated ASETPA approved aircraft, but don't all routes need to take you within gliding distance of airfields.
I remember there was a formula on how to work out the distance your route must be within a airfield based on your level and cruising speed.
I remember there was a formula on how to work out the distance your route must be within a airfield based on your level and cruising speed.
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Here we are...
extract from the Air Operators Certification Manual
7.23.2.5 Route Limitations
IFR departure routes should be considered in the context of engine failure/malfunction
procedures, with guidance in preferable courses of action, if any, to be followed by the
pilot. In VMC it may be preferable not to follow IFR departure tracks in which case other
procedures should be instituted in collaboration with Air Traffic Services.
RPT routes must be within ASETPA safety distance of a suitable landing area (SLA).
Procedures setting out specific route limitations must be provided.
‘ASETPA safety distance’ means the maximum still air distance travelled in 15 minutes at
the aeroplane’s normal cruise speed plus a glide to 1000 feet AGL. ASETPA safety
distances will be directly proportional to aircraft operating altitude. The 1000 feet is a
nominal SLA manoeuvring allowance.
CAAP 92.1 ‘Suitable landing area’ means an aerodrome that complies with CAAP 92-1. At night,
SLAs must either display runway lighting while the aircraft is within the ASETPA safety
distance or be equipped with reflectorised panels.
extract from the Air Operators Certification Manual
7.23.2.5 Route Limitations
IFR departure routes should be considered in the context of engine failure/malfunction
procedures, with guidance in preferable courses of action, if any, to be followed by the
pilot. In VMC it may be preferable not to follow IFR departure tracks in which case other
procedures should be instituted in collaboration with Air Traffic Services.
RPT routes must be within ASETPA safety distance of a suitable landing area (SLA).
Procedures setting out specific route limitations must be provided.
‘ASETPA safety distance’ means the maximum still air distance travelled in 15 minutes at
the aeroplane’s normal cruise speed plus a glide to 1000 feet AGL. ASETPA safety
distances will be directly proportional to aircraft operating altitude. The 1000 feet is a
nominal SLA manoeuvring allowance.
CAAP 92.1 ‘Suitable landing area’ means an aerodrome that complies with CAAP 92-1. At night,
SLAs must either display runway lighting while the aircraft is within the ASETPA safety
distance or be equipped with reflectorised panels.
My recollection is that CFIT was involved in the King Air accident. So the single v's twin debate is sort of irrelevant there.
Ergonomics, and thus load factor (on the pilot) - with SA outcomes however, is very relevant. How do the King Air and PC12 compare on those grounds? Not much in it, I would have thought.
But I've never flown a PC12... Those I know who have, do speak highly of 'em.
CR.
Ergonomics, and thus load factor (on the pilot) - with SA outcomes however, is very relevant. How do the King Air and PC12 compare on those grounds? Not much in it, I would have thought.
But I've never flown a PC12... Those I know who have, do speak highly of 'em.
CR.
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My previous comments about the number of single engine turbine failures wasn't trying to open up the single vs twin argument and I've crossed water in a PC-12 as a spare autopilot in the RHS and did a lot of time in the LHS of a PC-6 so happy to fly in them.
I can't find the statistics at the moment but when you read the factory advertising the pitch is you are more likely to win the lottery than have an engine failure , seems like a lot of potential lottery winners out there.
As a previous poster said it could also be that some of these engines are on their 3rd or 4th overhaul which could be starting to affect the statistics.
I can't find the statistics at the moment but when you read the factory advertising the pitch is you are more likely to win the lottery than have an engine failure , seems like a lot of potential lottery winners out there.
As a previous poster said it could also be that some of these engines are on their 3rd or 4th overhaul which could be starting to affect the statistics.
I'm sure I'll be shot down as I've posted this before, but seeing someone asked, here is a summary of the stats as far as I can find them, from a study of (NTSB) accident reports 1998 - 2007.
"It was interesting to compare the safety of single and multi-engine turboprop aircraft. Their overall, engine related, and fatal accident rates were very similar. Their fatal engine related accident rates were very low.
However, the single engine turboprop aircraft had one-third of the engine related fatal accident rate compared with multi-engine turboprops. Whether that difference can be attributed to the lower stall speeds and thus lower impact speeds of single engine aircraft or attributed to the reduced pilot workload following an engine shutdown is unknown, but the effect on fatal accidents was clear."
To return to the initial thread, very well done to the crew concerned....
The cloudbreak procedure as already described is great fun to practice, but no doubt wouldn't be a lot of fun to have to do for real...
RC
Oh, and several people win the lottery every week, so I would say you are more likely to do that than suffer a turbine engine failure, whether single or twin!
"It was interesting to compare the safety of single and multi-engine turboprop aircraft. Their overall, engine related, and fatal accident rates were very similar. Their fatal engine related accident rates were very low.
However, the single engine turboprop aircraft had one-third of the engine related fatal accident rate compared with multi-engine turboprops. Whether that difference can be attributed to the lower stall speeds and thus lower impact speeds of single engine aircraft or attributed to the reduced pilot workload following an engine shutdown is unknown, but the effect on fatal accidents was clear."
To return to the initial thread, very well done to the crew concerned....
The cloudbreak procedure as already described is great fun to practice, but no doubt wouldn't be a lot of fun to have to do for real...
RC
Oh, and several people win the lottery every week, so I would say you are more likely to do that than suffer a turbine engine failure, whether single or twin!
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there that night
Morning, I could not help myself, but read this forum. their r definitely some 12 drivers here. Yep it glide beautifully the the sound of silence was deafening though. No oil on wind shield only happens when a prop seal goes. natit u r right mate.
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The PC12 is a great Aeromed platform in practical terms although it is just a matter of time before an engine failure occurs where the luck is not on the side of the crew.
B200 glide ratio is 2nm per 1000ft height loss.
If you contact the ground at night anywhere other than an airfield you need a lot of luck to walk away. There are creeks, rocks, trees, ditches, hills, towers etc all waiting to greet the unfortunate.
SN
B200 glide ratio is 2nm per 1000ft height loss.
If you contact the ground at night anywhere other than an airfield you need a lot of luck to walk away. There are creeks, rocks, trees, ditches, hills, towers etc all waiting to greet the unfortunate.
SN
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If you contact the ground at night anywhere other than an airfield you need a lot of luck to walk away. There are creeks, rocks, trees, ditches, hills, towers etc all waiting to greet the unfortunate.
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If you contact the ground at night anywhere other than an airfield you need a lot of luck to walk away. There are creeks, rocks, trees, ditches, hills, towers etc all waiting to greet the unfortunate.
If you contact the ground anywhere other than UNDER CONTROL you need a lot of luck to walk away.
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I've been practicing similar scenarios from various levels and in various conditions with a similar aircraft, and I believe it's an highly valuable training, not only for single engine operations. I finally came to experience it for real in icing IMC from FL160 and was glad to have some insights...
@ rcoight (Post #55)
Oh, and several people win the lottery every week, so I would say you are more likely to do that than suffer a turbine engine failure, whether single or twin!
Your statement there contradicts itself, to the trained eye. This is why statistics can be a tricky thing.
Do you think everyone playing the lottery every week is also flying an aircraft ("whether single or twin")?
Not having a go at you mate, just pointing out that stats are slippery things...
CR.