QF Direct Entry / Flight Deck Visit
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QF Direct Entry / Flight Deck Visit
Hi Guys,
Firstly, I was lucky enough to sit in the skippers seat upon arrival at our gate in Brisbane yesterday, having a look at the flight deck, and a conversation with the FO. A sincere thankyou to the QF crew, Skipper and FO for being so inviting and open. For someone grinding out their CPL, it was easily the most motivating experience to date. Highly recommend it to anyone in the midst of their Commercial training, a really good source of inspiration to keep up the hard work.
Secondly, (and I understand there's no movement into QF at the moment) in relation to QF's direct entry minima, is the advertised 500 fixed-wing command a realistic figure? Or does a competitive application include 1000 Single-Command and X hours twin? As someone on the brink of an Instructor Rating, I'm logically trying to assess my options and determine my best angle of attack. Would love to hear from any successful SO's, and the position from which they joined QF.
Thanks in advance, and a Happy new year to all.
rodrigues
Firstly, I was lucky enough to sit in the skippers seat upon arrival at our gate in Brisbane yesterday, having a look at the flight deck, and a conversation with the FO. A sincere thankyou to the QF crew, Skipper and FO for being so inviting and open. For someone grinding out their CPL, it was easily the most motivating experience to date. Highly recommend it to anyone in the midst of their Commercial training, a really good source of inspiration to keep up the hard work.
Secondly, (and I understand there's no movement into QF at the moment) in relation to QF's direct entry minima, is the advertised 500 fixed-wing command a realistic figure? Or does a competitive application include 1000 Single-Command and X hours twin? As someone on the brink of an Instructor Rating, I'm logically trying to assess my options and determine my best angle of attack. Would love to hear from any successful SO's, and the position from which they joined QF.
Thanks in advance, and a Happy new year to all.
rodrigues
Last edited by rodrigues; 9th Jan 2010 at 00:20. Reason: Clarification!
Sprucegoose
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I know several who have started with less than 1000 hours (mostly single), none in the last two years though!
For your own sake get out there and get some flying experience regardless of what QF will take you with.
Being an SO for 3 or so years sitting up the back and occasionally sitting in the seat with the autopilot on is not the way to enhance (or maintain) your flying skills. (I often wonder how SO's even manage to keep their IFR approach skills accurate) If you have not got out there and honed your skill and seen a bit of the country I can imagine aviation becoming a very laborious experience very quickly!
And what else have you got to talk about on all those hours of boredom other than the cool stuff you used to do
Being an SO for 3 or so years sitting up the back and occasionally sitting in the seat with the autopilot on is not the way to enhance (or maintain) your flying skills. (I often wonder how SO's even manage to keep their IFR approach skills accurate) If you have not got out there and honed your skill and seen a bit of the country I can imagine aviation becoming a very laborious experience very quickly!
And what else have you got to talk about on all those hours of boredom other than the cool stuff you used to do
What is it with the pilots coming through flying schools in the last few years? All they wanna know is how to get to Qantas in the quickest fashion.
My suggestion rodrigues, go out and earn yourself a couple of thousand hours first, doing GA charter. Don't do instructing, at least not for the first 1-2,000hrs anyway. You're only doing your students a dis-service by not actually having any experience to pass onto them.
You'll thoroughly enjoy GA (provided you're not a whinging little mummy's boy who only wants the best), and the experience you'll walk away from GA with is priceless. Unless you're in your mid 30's, then I don't see what the rush is to get to Qantas or Virgin.
morno
My suggestion rodrigues, go out and earn yourself a couple of thousand hours first, doing GA charter. Don't do instructing, at least not for the first 1-2,000hrs anyway. You're only doing your students a dis-service by not actually having any experience to pass onto them.
You'll thoroughly enjoy GA (provided you're not a whinging little mummy's boy who only wants the best), and the experience you'll walk away from GA with is priceless. Unless you're in your mid 30's, then I don't see what the rush is to get to Qantas or Virgin.
morno
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Just a quick question, what's with the hostility directed towards any wannabee who shows a direct enthusiasm towards joining an airline, or shooting for a cadetship etc? I've got my own views, and agree with the value of GA, but I fully support a trainee who is specifically aiming to join the big boys, and cites that ambition as the reason they got into flying.
It's like saying someone who gets a shot at the AIS for Cricket, should ignore that and spend a few years at their local cricket club slogging it out instead. I completely and utterly agree that a few years of 'real' flying enhances a pilot's skill base and issues an abundance of invaluable experiences, but if GA doesn't interest you, and your sole ambition is a career with an airline, then why take the scenic route to get there (if you don't have to)?
Not doubt I'll attract some personal criticism, but would love to hear some other viewpoints - and i'm sure I will.
It's like saying someone who gets a shot at the AIS for Cricket, should ignore that and spend a few years at their local cricket club slogging it out instead. I completely and utterly agree that a few years of 'real' flying enhances a pilot's skill base and issues an abundance of invaluable experiences, but if GA doesn't interest you, and your sole ambition is a career with an airline, then why take the scenic route to get there (if you don't have to)?
Not doubt I'll attract some personal criticism, but would love to hear some other viewpoints - and i'm sure I will.
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I have to agree with you. If thats what you want then go for it. If you like the idea of instructing then go for that too! It's a lot of fun, you will learn so much along the way without picking up bad habbits like a lot of guys who jump headfirst into GA. Of course the usual, make sure you want to do it blah blah...
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Rodriguez,
What....hostility on pprune....never....
Seriously, there is nothing wrong with having enthuasism to join an airline. I would bet the majority of pilots out there have the ultimate ambition to get into the LHS of a jet some day (even if they wont admit it).
In answer to your question....QF have taken all sorts of people over the years with a wide range of experience. I know of a number of guys who joined with under 1000hours and those that applied many times and were not taken until they had 1000's of hours turbine. I guess it's supply and demand, how well you with the testing and as always, a bit of luck.
From a personal point of view, I first did testing for QF back in 2000 with 700 hours or so. At the time I didn't make it through the skills and psych. I got a 'apply again in 2 years' letter so I left my instructing job and went and did charter (single & multi). When I applied 2 years later I got the gig (hired 3 years almost to the day after I got the reject letter the first time).
Looking back I think I was a much better candidate the second time round....more experience etc. Looking back I also have no regrets with missing out the first time...I really enjoyed my time in GA (I would have enjoyed it more if I knew I would eventually get out of GA).
Saying all this, if you want to get into an airline...apply asap. Just because you apply does not mean you will get in. If you do, great. If not, take it as it comes. Speak to anyone in the industry and they will say that airlines have window's of opportunity to join....when the window is open....great. When it closes...it may close for a long time.
Good luck
what's with the hostility directed towards any wannabee who shows a direct enthusiasm towards joining an airline, or shooting for a cadetship etc?
Seriously, there is nothing wrong with having enthuasism to join an airline. I would bet the majority of pilots out there have the ultimate ambition to get into the LHS of a jet some day (even if they wont admit it).
In answer to your question....QF have taken all sorts of people over the years with a wide range of experience. I know of a number of guys who joined with under 1000hours and those that applied many times and were not taken until they had 1000's of hours turbine. I guess it's supply and demand, how well you with the testing and as always, a bit of luck.
From a personal point of view, I first did testing for QF back in 2000 with 700 hours or so. At the time I didn't make it through the skills and psych. I got a 'apply again in 2 years' letter so I left my instructing job and went and did charter (single & multi). When I applied 2 years later I got the gig (hired 3 years almost to the day after I got the reject letter the first time).
Looking back I think I was a much better candidate the second time round....more experience etc. Looking back I also have no regrets with missing out the first time...I really enjoyed my time in GA (I would have enjoyed it more if I knew I would eventually get out of GA).
Saying all this, if you want to get into an airline...apply asap. Just because you apply does not mean you will get in. If you do, great. If not, take it as it comes. Speak to anyone in the industry and they will say that airlines have window's of opportunity to join....when the window is open....great. When it closes...it may close for a long time.
Good luck
Sprucegoose
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My advice would be, if you want to be in an airline, get there as fast as you can! Why spend extra time in GA, when you could be building up seniority?
If you don't like it you can always buy an RV or Pitts later...
If you don't like it you can always buy an RV or Pitts later...
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My advice would be, if you want to be in an airline, get there as fast as you can! Why spend extra time in GA, when you could be building up seniority?
Just a quick question, what's with the hostility directed towards any wannabee who shows a direct enthusiasm towards joining an airline, or shooting for a cadetship etc? I've got my own views, and agree with the value of GA, but I fully support a trainee who is specifically aiming to join the big boys, and cites that ambition as the reason they got into flying.
We all signed up thinking of the life of an Airline Pilot, flying to faraway lands, earning top dollar, walking down the street in uniform like Leonardo Dicaprio in catch me if you can - uniform on - raybans checked - getting perved on by the girls. Glamorous trolly dollys pouring us coffee in the flight deck and after a successful flight drinking whiskey till the early hours on a layover........ with a happy ending and no strings attached........
Then we start our training and fall in love with the art of flying an aeroplane. That 40 year old Cessna becomes a thing of beauty and the squillions of hours on the airframe don't really seem to matter. Single Pilot operations in remote areas with stunning coastlines, mountain ranges, unruly passengers and comradery with your flying buddies become the happiest time of your life. Being broke is kind of fun and when you go home on holidays your mates who are earning squillions on the mines always look after you
As we are more exposed to the industry we realize the pay 'aint really that great at the top anymore. The conditions are getting worse while the hours are getting even more fatiguing particularly if you fly domestic. The job security is not really there and the word from management is always doom and gloom.
Oh and the trolly dollys? well.........jump in the back of a QF cabin these days particularly the 767 fleet and have a look. The reason why knitting needles are now not a prohibited item is half the cabin crew need 'em
It's like saying someone who gets a shot at the AIS for Cricket, should ignore that and spend a few years at their local cricket club slogging it out instead
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Rod,
Don't get caught up in all this doom and gloom talk (like the above post), an airline career is bloody good fun and QF still pays the best in this country. It certainly beats busting your ass in GA getting paid bugger all.
Don't get caught up in all this doom and gloom talk (like the above post), an airline career is bloody good fun and QF still pays the best in this country. It certainly beats busting your ass in GA getting paid bugger all.
Rod,
Don't get caught up in all this doom and gloom talk (like the above post), an airline career is bloody good fun and QF still pays the best in this country. It certainly beats busting your ass in GA getting paid bugger all.
Don't get caught up in all this doom and gloom talk (like the above post), an airline career is bloody good fun and QF still pays the best in this country. It certainly beats busting your ass in GA getting paid bugger all.
Just enjoy the journey getting there. I certainly am!
Sprucegoose
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I know of several people who have had (or are having) interviews and who have been offered positions with the majors in the last month (excluding QF).
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Yeah I know of people getting interviews and gigs with jetstar and virgin. They did have multi crew, twin turbo prop over 5700kg experience. Think they are starting at the top.
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From someone who I used to know who applied to QANTAS under the '500hrs' category but got in with a few more hours than that, if it is what you want, apply when you meet the minimums to apply.
Don't necessarily wait until later when you think you have more like the minimums that they want because one of the questions you will probably get on an interview will be: "Why didn't you apply when you got 500 hours?" They are fishing to see how dedicated you are. Applying when you meet the minimums and updating as necessary will show that you are keen.
Don't necessarily wait until later when you think you have more like the minimums that they want because one of the questions you will probably get on an interview will be: "Why didn't you apply when you got 500 hours?" They are fishing to see how dedicated you are. Applying when you meet the minimums and updating as necessary will show that you are keen.
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GG said
I know it's very hard to believe but not everybody thinks Flying with backstabbers for longer hours being paid less and less money working with mercenary managers for airlines that think pilots are all prima donna's and there's plenty lined up to pay to for training to take your job flying for less wages is the ultimate job 
Or have I got the tone of most posters on prune wrong?
We all signed up thinking of the life of an Airline Pilot, flying to faraway lands, earning top dollar, walking down the street in uniform
Or have I got the tone of most posters on prune wrong?
Last edited by Super Cecil; 10th Jan 2010 at 06:20.
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Rod, I think you will find the minimum of 500hrs is mainly directed at RAAF guys, there is nothing wrong with being keen, enthusiastic and optimistic but at the same time if you are not realistic you will be in for a big letdown.
You would be VERY lucky to get into QF in the next few years with 500hrs, contrary to some posters here indicating they know people who have. Things change quicly in this industry, but I think the days of QF needing to drop their actual minimums to 500hrs are a fair way off.
All the best
HKF
You would be VERY lucky to get into QF in the next few years with 500hrs, contrary to some posters here indicating they know people who have. Things change quicly in this industry, but I think the days of QF needing to drop their actual minimums to 500hrs are a fair way off.
All the best
HKF