Opportunity with start-up in Hawaii - NZ company
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Well I wonder after 170 posts on this topic has anyone actually learnt anything?????.
If you google this businessman's name you get a good indication that in the past things havn't been good for him. Bankrupt and no sign of ever owning another Aviation company other than Kiwi Airlines".
If you then google his address it comes up with a Maree Neal Consulting
48 Wheturangi Road
Greenlane 1051, Auckland
I have contacted this company and the owner told me that M.T once rented that office/home for a short period. The owner was very surprised that this person was still using the old address and he hadn't resided in that property for quite sometime. If this was ever going to be a legitimate operation things would have added up a lot better from the start.
Well just my 2cents worth.
If you google this businessman's name you get a good indication that in the past things havn't been good for him. Bankrupt and no sign of ever owning another Aviation company other than Kiwi Airlines".
If you then google his address it comes up with a Maree Neal Consulting48 Wheturangi Road
Greenlane 1051, Auckland
I have contacted this company and the owner told me that M.T once rented that office/home for a short period. The owner was very surprised that this person was still using the old address and he hadn't resided in that property for quite sometime. If this was ever going to be a legitimate operation things would have added up a lot better from the start.
Well just my 2cents worth.
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Hey Toppled
Do a Director Search on the NZ Companies website, search under difference variants of his name (ie. without middle names)
880273 Global Express Ltd - Struck off
893972 Quickjet Airways Ltd - Struck Off
...and these are just the ones that look like airlines - there are plenty more.
On the basis that he doesn't seem to be at the address he claims I don't think we need to say any more than that really!
Do a Director Search on the NZ Companies website, search under difference variants of his name (ie. without middle names)
880273 Global Express Ltd - Struck off
893972 Quickjet Airways Ltd - Struck Off
...and these are just the ones that look like airlines - there are plenty more.
On the basis that he doesn't seem to be at the address he claims I don't think we need to say any more than that really!
Moderator
The New Zealand Company Search web site is a very interesting site!
Far more revealing than the Australian ASIC web site, particularly their Director Search function.
Far more revealing than the Australian ASIC web site, particularly their Director Search function.
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I think the concrete evidence will be when someone gives the guy 25k and never sees the cockpit of a PA-31. I'd be surprised if this guy even has an aircraft, yet alone an offer of a freight contract. How do you fulfil a freight contract with only one aircraft anyway? It would be hard enough with just the scheduled maintenance, yet alone when the aircraft goes u/s for other reasons.
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JezzaNZ
Everything you said a couple of posts back is completely correct. What you are seeing is a combination of healthy distrust, and the standard Kiwi tall poppy syndrome at work.
Plenty of people have had a rocky road to success - I offer the following examples:
Larry King has interviewed over 30,000 people during his career but his rise to fame for radio work in the 60’s derailed him financially. He was in debt $352,000, charged with grand larceny and accused of stealing $5,000 from a business partner. The charges were dropped but he struggled to get back on his feet and ended up claiming bankruptcy in 1978.
The 16th President of the United States, Abraham Lincoln, declared bankruptcy in 1833 and spent 17 years of his paying off the money that he borrowed from friends to start his business. It took Lincoln 30 years to achieve his goal of becoming President of the United States.
Donald Trump found himself $900 million in debt in 1990 and lost a lot of his business ventures but somehow restructured his debt to be back on top running a billion-dollar empire.
Walt Disney His name may be a stalwart brand today, but early in his career, Disney was just a struggling filmmaker with too many bills. In 1922 he started his first film company with a partner in Kansas City, Kansas.
The two men bought a used camera and made short advertising films and cartoons under the studio name Laugh-O-Gram. Disney even signed a deal with a New York company to distribute the films he was producing. That arrangement didn't work out so well, though, as the distributor cheated Disney's studio.
Without the distributor's cash, Disney couldn't cover his overhead, and his studio went bankrupt in 1923. He then left Kansas City for Hollywood, and after a series of increasingly successful creations, Disney debuted a new character named Mickey Mouse in 1928.
H.J. Heinz When Heinz was just 25 years old, he and two partners began a company that made horseradish. As the legend goes, the spicy root was the first of Heinz's famed 57 varieties, but it wasn't as lucrative as he'd hoped. A business panic in 1875 bankrupted his enterprise, but Heinz's passion for condiments remained strong.
The very next year, Heinz got together with his brother and a cousin to start a new company in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. The reorganized group started making ketchup, and the business took off. Last year the H.J. Heinz Company had over $10 billion in revenue.
Yeah real bunch of scumbags, that lot...
The point being - be careful, but not dismissive...
Everything you said a couple of posts back is completely correct. What you are seeing is a combination of healthy distrust, and the standard Kiwi tall poppy syndrome at work.
Plenty of people have had a rocky road to success - I offer the following examples:
Larry King has interviewed over 30,000 people during his career but his rise to fame for radio work in the 60’s derailed him financially. He was in debt $352,000, charged with grand larceny and accused of stealing $5,000 from a business partner. The charges were dropped but he struggled to get back on his feet and ended up claiming bankruptcy in 1978.
The 16th President of the United States, Abraham Lincoln, declared bankruptcy in 1833 and spent 17 years of his paying off the money that he borrowed from friends to start his business. It took Lincoln 30 years to achieve his goal of becoming President of the United States.
Donald Trump found himself $900 million in debt in 1990 and lost a lot of his business ventures but somehow restructured his debt to be back on top running a billion-dollar empire.
Walt Disney His name may be a stalwart brand today, but early in his career, Disney was just a struggling filmmaker with too many bills. In 1922 he started his first film company with a partner in Kansas City, Kansas.
The two men bought a used camera and made short advertising films and cartoons under the studio name Laugh-O-Gram. Disney even signed a deal with a New York company to distribute the films he was producing. That arrangement didn't work out so well, though, as the distributor cheated Disney's studio.
Without the distributor's cash, Disney couldn't cover his overhead, and his studio went bankrupt in 1923. He then left Kansas City for Hollywood, and after a series of increasingly successful creations, Disney debuted a new character named Mickey Mouse in 1928.
H.J. Heinz When Heinz was just 25 years old, he and two partners began a company that made horseradish. As the legend goes, the spicy root was the first of Heinz's famed 57 varieties, but it wasn't as lucrative as he'd hoped. A business panic in 1875 bankrupted his enterprise, but Heinz's passion for condiments remained strong.
The very next year, Heinz got together with his brother and a cousin to start a new company in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. The reorganized group started making ketchup, and the business took off. Last year the H.J. Heinz Company had over $10 billion in revenue.
Yeah real bunch of scumbags, that lot...
The point being - be careful, but not dismissive...
Last edited by remoak; 6th Feb 2010 at 05:04.
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Remoak I usually agree with a lot of your posts but I must point out that while those people you mention went on to be successful there will be 1000's under similar circumstances who did not make it. (just like airline pilots!)
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There is some sensible opinions being offered here. Believe it or not, a lot of us actually want you guys coming through GA to do well and have good careers. If you can learn from the experiences/mistakes that others made (in and out of the cockpit) then hopefully the industry will be a better place for all.
So, while this guy may be legit and intend to start a real operation with an actual plane and pilots that he pays, he probably isn't. I really hope I'm wrong as the more light twins employing pilots in NZ the better.
HOWEVER, there is no reason to demand a potential employees money up front, in advance, for services that he can't properly detail. There is no reason for him to need any of your money. Requiring a type rating and IFR currency, that he could provide for a nominal fee is one thing (but still not great), but twenty grand is a straight out rip off. Be very clear, this is not a bond. You are buying a job. Which is basically what I did with CityJet. Not only did it hurt me financially, but it lost me a lot of respect amongst my peers, which hopefully I have back.
If it was me, I would go to the interview, answer the questions, and if offerred a job I would agree to signing a bond for the cost of training (3-5k) that is pro-rated over 18 months. He has his labour security and you don't get scammed. If he doesn't go for this its probably a scam.
Now, whoever offerred the free beers........Fine, I'll buy my own.
So, while this guy may be legit and intend to start a real operation with an actual plane and pilots that he pays, he probably isn't. I really hope I'm wrong as the more light twins employing pilots in NZ the better.
HOWEVER, there is no reason to demand a potential employees money up front, in advance, for services that he can't properly detail. There is no reason for him to need any of your money. Requiring a type rating and IFR currency, that he could provide for a nominal fee is one thing (but still not great), but twenty grand is a straight out rip off. Be very clear, this is not a bond. You are buying a job. Which is basically what I did with CityJet. Not only did it hurt me financially, but it lost me a lot of respect amongst my peers, which hopefully I have back.
If it was me, I would go to the interview, answer the questions, and if offerred a job I would agree to signing a bond for the cost of training (3-5k) that is pro-rated over 18 months. He has his labour security and you don't get scammed. If he doesn't go for this its probably a scam.
Now, whoever offerred the free beers........Fine, I'll buy my own.
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DeltaT
I agree with you, however you can't predicate the success or otherwise of this venture on the basis of well-known failures in the aviation industry. He may fail, he may not, but you and others have absolutely no way of knowing for sure which way it will go. There are plenty of informed (and not so informed) guesses being put forward here, but there is simply not enough information be sure one way or the other.
Now, it may well be that the money being asked for will be used for purposes other than training, that it may in fact form part of the start-up capital of the venture (in a roundabout way). As long as the way the money is being used is not illegal, what is the problem here? As long as you walk into the deal with your eyes wide open, and your own lawyer satisfied, it seems a reasonable bet to me.
Let's be quite clear that very few people starting a GA operation are sufficiently cashed up to be able to afford all the training, capital equipment and other costs that typically occur at the beginning of a venture. It's just the nature of the beast. People start operations on a shoestring and try and get through the first 12 months intact. This situation is not helped by a somewhat passive CAA, who allow all sorts of crap to go on. It is even more difficult in the present economic climate, which is a good reason to apply some creative thinking to the problem. Is this guy a charletan, or is he simply thinking outside the traditional aviation box? I don't know either way, but I suggest that nobody on here does either.
This guy might have a good idea and a sound business plan - personally I'd be asking to see the business plan! He might be able to make it happen, in which case the people who go with him will have done very well. There is always the risk (with any venture in any industry) that it might fall on it's face, which has happened to plenty of smart people in the past - remember the recent experiment in NZ real estate, "The Joneses"? Good idea, but didn't work. Should have, but it didn't.
Or the guy might be a crook, but to me this doesn't have the smell of that, not yet anyway. Has this guy ever been convicted (or even charged) with an offence of dishonesty? Apparently not, so perhaps a few of you should dial down the rhetoric a few notches and give the guy a break. Innocent until proven guilty, n'est pas?
Having started a few businesses myself, I know that it is almost always a very difficult and risky business. I have never been bankrupt, but I have seen good ideas inexplicably fail to take, and have had to shut down those ventures and try something else. That's the nature of entrepreneurial business (gee I hope I spelled that right...).
And finally... buying a job is neither new, nor particularly risky. It has been going on in the UK since the early '90s, and in the USA since the '60s. Far more satisfied customers than otherwise.
I have worked for airlines that have gone into receivership with little or no warning, three times now. I have lost a lot more than 20K in the process. There is risk, and then there is risk. You pay your money and take your (hopefully fully informed) chances...
those people you mention went on to be successful there will be 1000's under similar circumstances who did not make it.
Now, it may well be that the money being asked for will be used for purposes other than training, that it may in fact form part of the start-up capital of the venture (in a roundabout way). As long as the way the money is being used is not illegal, what is the problem here? As long as you walk into the deal with your eyes wide open, and your own lawyer satisfied, it seems a reasonable bet to me.
Let's be quite clear that very few people starting a GA operation are sufficiently cashed up to be able to afford all the training, capital equipment and other costs that typically occur at the beginning of a venture. It's just the nature of the beast. People start operations on a shoestring and try and get through the first 12 months intact. This situation is not helped by a somewhat passive CAA, who allow all sorts of crap to go on. It is even more difficult in the present economic climate, which is a good reason to apply some creative thinking to the problem. Is this guy a charletan, or is he simply thinking outside the traditional aviation box? I don't know either way, but I suggest that nobody on here does either.
This guy might have a good idea and a sound business plan - personally I'd be asking to see the business plan! He might be able to make it happen, in which case the people who go with him will have done very well. There is always the risk (with any venture in any industry) that it might fall on it's face, which has happened to plenty of smart people in the past - remember the recent experiment in NZ real estate, "The Joneses"? Good idea, but didn't work. Should have, but it didn't.
Or the guy might be a crook, but to me this doesn't have the smell of that, not yet anyway. Has this guy ever been convicted (or even charged) with an offence of dishonesty? Apparently not, so perhaps a few of you should dial down the rhetoric a few notches and give the guy a break. Innocent until proven guilty, n'est pas?
Having started a few businesses myself, I know that it is almost always a very difficult and risky business. I have never been bankrupt, but I have seen good ideas inexplicably fail to take, and have had to shut down those ventures and try something else. That's the nature of entrepreneurial business (gee I hope I spelled that right...).
And finally... buying a job is neither new, nor particularly risky. It has been going on in the UK since the early '90s, and in the USA since the '60s. Far more satisfied customers than otherwise.
I have worked for airlines that have gone into receivership with little or no warning, three times now. I have lost a lot more than 20K in the process. There is risk, and then there is risk. You pay your money and take your (hopefully fully informed) chances...
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Remoak's list of highly successful people...
Donald Trump ""decided to declare himself bankrupt as it was financially advantageous to him"". I think he might've messed up a bit (too much money spent on toupes maybe?) and i'm not sure how many people lost money as a result...
And Disney was an Anti-Semite like you wouldn't believe.
I agree with your sentiments about taking risks and success being a function of educated guessing and risk management but the examples are a bit off-colour!!
And Disney was an Anti-Semite like you wouldn't believe.
I agree with your sentiments about taking risks and success being a function of educated guessing and risk management but the examples are a bit off-colour!!
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So being Pro-Semite, does that make one racist too?
Personally, think the tags are over-rated, there are good and bad in every society, just as there are beautiful and ugly women in every country!
Personally, think the tags are over-rated, there are good and bad in every society, just as there are beautiful and ugly women in every country!
There was a couple of ****box Chieftains for sale in Hawaii for most of the last 2 years - my recollection is hazy but I think they were listed as "PA31 Commuters" or similar, one with 20,000+ TTAF and one with 'only' 15,000 hours.
Both had timex engines and props, original avionics, etc etc etc.
I think they were the cheapest Chieftains on the planet.
I wonder if he's bought them and needs 10 x $20k to cover it?
Both had timex engines and props, original avionics, etc etc etc.
I think they were the cheapest Chieftains on the planet.
I wonder if he's bought them and needs 10 x $20k to cover it?
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The bit that raised my eyebrows was all the people that commented on going to, or doing the interview, all joined pprune at the start of jan this year, when the thread was created..
hmmm..
Would be interesting to see a IP check on them as they all had the same writing style as well.
So whats the news on this company anyway?
hmmm..
Would be interesting to see a IP check on them as they all had the same writing style as well.
So whats the news on this company anyway?