710m TODA - Enough for a Baron 58?
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Oz
710m TODA - Enough for a Baron 58?
Am looking at a nice little property just out of sydney thats for sale. Lo and behold, it comes with a nice little 710m grass runway. All of it is useable as there are NO obstacles at either end.
Is this long enough to operate a Baron out of there (300hp) up to Max weight. I have the flight manual for the 285 hp model and it indicates only 1500ft or around 460m for ground roll (sea level nil wind ISA)
My question is how much is needed for an average pilot?
Is this long enough to operate a Baron out of there (300hp) up to Max weight. I have the flight manual for the 285 hp model and it indicates only 1500ft or around 460m for ground roll (sea level nil wind ISA)
My question is how much is needed for an average pilot?
Joined: Aug 2009
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From: Melbourne
CASA used to issue P-charts for light GA aircraft which took into account many factors including, but not limited to, old aircraft and the abilities of an 'average' pilot.
Their factor was 15% over the POH figures although these days they don't make these charts anymore.
If 15% is good enough for CASA then I guess it's good enough for everyone else!
Their factor was 15% over the POH figures although these days they don't make these charts anymore.
If 15% is good enough for CASA then I guess it's good enough for everyone else!
Last edited by ConfigFull; 27th September 2009 at 07:57. Reason: silly spelling mistake...
Joined: Aug 2009
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From: out there
sounds tight. I don't like taking a 310 or baron thats less than 900m. Plus is the field at sea level, and how many ISA days to you get in Sydney?, density height will have a large factor on safely operating out of a shortish strip.
Also depends of course on what your payload intends to be in and out of there. Just you and min fuel for a 20min flight, probably no worries. Add a few pax into the equation also, your mates won't understand when you start saying you can't take 5 for a joyflight as the runway isn't long enough, it's too hot or whatever.
Finally, how do you determine an average pilot. What is your proficiency on the aircraft. How often do you fly it, your time on type, total time. For a rough idea of how well you can do it, next time you go into a 1000m strip land and try and pull it up by the 700m mark.
Just a few points to ponder. Hope it all works out.
Also depends of course on what your payload intends to be in and out of there. Just you and min fuel for a 20min flight, probably no worries. Add a few pax into the equation also, your mates won't understand when you start saying you can't take 5 for a joyflight as the runway isn't long enough, it's too hot or whatever.
Finally, how do you determine an average pilot. What is your proficiency on the aircraft. How often do you fly it, your time on type, total time. For a rough idea of how well you can do it, next time you go into a 1000m strip land and try and pull it up by the 700m mark.
Just a few points to ponder. Hope it all works out.
Sprucegoose
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: Hughes Point, where life is great! Was also resident on page 13, but now I'm lost in Cyberspace....
900M is the figure I would use as a minimum at MTOW, especially on a non paved runway. I would recommend getting a grader in for a day, it'll be cheaper than if you run off the end! That way you won't have to worry, unless it's 40C...
PS: You would get the Baron in OK, but you may not get it out again!
PS: You would get the Baron in OK, but you may not get it out again!
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 279
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From: Earth
Yeah, get your grader out and give it another 300 meters with a turning circle at the end. Its ok to bend it a bit to get it to fit. The surface is the important thing - a bit of gravel on the centre 5 meters does wonders.
And, why not a couple of 100mm reo concrete pads under the props and tires where you park ?
You going to paint the cones black on one side and yellow on the other ?
And, why not a couple of 100mm reo concrete pads under the props and tires where you park ?
You going to paint the cones black on one side and yellow on the other ?
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 307
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From: around
Is it a B58 or E55. The 55 was approved for takeoff with 10 or 15 degrees of flap. Cant remember the figure but I remember it being the weapon of choice for tighter strips rather than the B58 "Tank". I rekon it may help you out of the strip a little better if you cvan use flaps.
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Mel-burn
The Dr. says
You're not wrong and the reciprocal applies:
Where HELICOPTERS are concerned, getting IN is generally a bigger issue than getting out!
Where aeroplanes are concerned, getting out is generally a bigger issue than getting in
Where HELICOPTERS are concerned, getting IN is generally a bigger issue than getting out!
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Mt Druitt
I was an average pilot flying them many a moon ago and from memory, 700m was generally ok for RPT at MTOW nil wind on the B58 (285hp). May have been less, but can't remember. 
If the good book says it's good to go, then it must be
The E55 was much better because the POH had performance for the first bit of flap.
Enjoy your flight Guptar
If the good book says it's good to go, then it must be
The E55 was much better because the POH had performance for the first bit of flap.
Enjoy your flight Guptar
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,864
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From: in the classroom of life
get a Retard vehicle....... no problem then on 260HP
The Dr has done the Ambo strip with average loads and its shorter.....albeit harder and dry.....
The secret is find somehere else and practice with the right weights and conditions.
If the approach and departure are good, this helps. Just be very sure first....and ask the neighbours if they mind you pulling the fence down!
or buy one of these..................
The Dr has done the Ambo strip with average loads and its shorter.....albeit harder and dry.....
The secret is find somehere else and practice with the right weights and conditions.
If the approach and departure are good, this helps. Just be very sure first....and ask the neighbours if they mind you pulling the fence down!
or buy one of these..................
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 297
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From: Oz
Thanks for all the replys.
Just wondering how much it would cost to pave the strip.
Lengthening is out of the question as it one end has a deep gorge with a river at the bottom and the other end is bounded by a public road. Another property just down the road could fit a 900m strip however.
The hardest part will be convincing the mrs that we really do NEED our own plane. The same as wee need that flash car and kick arse home theatre.
Sure hope she doesnt say nyet.
Bythewy, theres heaps of Baron vids on youtube of guys going in and out of 700-800m strips and they seem to have no trouble. One even shows a Citation 2 blasting out of a 2000 ft strip. thats about 800m...must have been very light.
Just wondering how much it would cost to pave the strip.
Lengthening is out of the question as it one end has a deep gorge with a river at the bottom and the other end is bounded by a public road. Another property just down the road could fit a 900m strip however.
The hardest part will be convincing the mrs that we really do NEED our own plane. The same as wee need that flash car and kick arse home theatre.
Sure hope she doesnt say nyet.
Bythewy, theres heaps of Baron vids on youtube of guys going in and out of 700-800m strips and they seem to have no trouble. One even shows a Citation 2 blasting out of a 2000 ft strip. thats about 800m...must have been very light.
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: 41S174E
From memory anything under 900m at max weight was tight for departure. I also remember that there was a fairly lengthy period of time between the start of the rotation and when you had a bit of height and speed where I reckon you would have been pretty stuffed if you lost an engine. Mind you, there were always trees at the end of the strips I went into as well as it being hot with **** all wind. Best to talk to someone who is operating one into strips and is still current before having a row with the missus I reckon.
Joined: May 2009
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From: Antartica (Melbourne)
Has anyone considered what an engine failure before takeoff would be like? Into the gorge or the public road if not done correctly. Worst case dead at the bottom of the gorge or (minor?) injuries on the road. Although from experience 58 would be the plane to get you out even with 1 engine out after takeoff.