Mega Merged: REX Recruitment/Cadetship and Working for REX
Listen to Muff' Altimeters. A dose of reality may be in order.
A direct entry REX F/O, ATPL/IFR, started in April, Checked to line 2 weeks ago. Time from induction to Checked, 4 months. And he was one of the lucky ones! At the moment REX are flat out keeping their current pilots qualified. A chronic shortage of simulator time, Check and Trainers, and an ongoing crewing crisis, have ensured that the existing REX line pilots be given priority in all these regards.
Also, now that the first batch of Cadets have exceeded (and continue to do so by a large margin) the originally planned 8 month program, who's picking up the tab for the extra acommodation, meals, class space etc..? Methinks the board wont be happy about that!
Must be getting pretty crowded down there?
A direct entry REX F/O, ATPL/IFR, started in April, Checked to line 2 weeks ago. Time from induction to Checked, 4 months. And he was one of the lucky ones! At the moment REX are flat out keeping their current pilots qualified. A chronic shortage of simulator time, Check and Trainers, and an ongoing crewing crisis, have ensured that the existing REX line pilots be given priority in all these regards.
Also, now that the first batch of Cadets have exceeded (and continue to do so by a large margin) the originally planned 8 month program, who's picking up the tab for the extra acommodation, meals, class space etc..? Methinks the board wont be happy about that!
Must be getting pretty crowded down there?
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and an ongoing crewing crisis
Just say "no".
Not as simple as it sounds Hugh.
John Howard's workplace laws are still in place. If everyone unilaterally chose not to work on their days off, then that would be OK. The problem is that even though overtime is not compulsory, anyone, or any organisation that in any way requests, directs or otherwise, any employee not to do overtime, then that is deemed illegal indistrial action! Big fines, lots of hassel!
I'm convinced that if people were asked in the proper manner, they would probably all pull together. In the absence of such a process, most REX pilots who are inclined to work on their days off more than likely feel that "If I don't do it, someone else will". This is especially relevant when you consider the appallingly low salaries of the most junior F/O's. And frankly it's difficult to blame them.
For the record, I do not work on my days off. Mainly because I have come to realise that time with my family is far and away more important than the small financial gain (especially after tax) that I may get.
It's starting to bite however. More REX pilots are now refusing, especially on the weekends. When you consider they only recieve one off every roster, then it becomes all the more important to them. REX are now seriously undercrewed on most weekends. The average number of uncrewed sectors during these days is around 40!
I have heard that the REXPC will be initiating legal industrial action because the company has not acted in good faith during the now failed EBA process. I can only assume that some sort of ban on overtime may result from this process.
Whatever happens though, the company is only manageing to avoid substantial cancellations due to the work by pilots on their RDO's. This situation will only get worse as more REX crews see the light. With luck it may just focus the board's attention to just how valuable their pilots are.
Although, I won't be holding my breath!
John Howard's workplace laws are still in place. If everyone unilaterally chose not to work on their days off, then that would be OK. The problem is that even though overtime is not compulsory, anyone, or any organisation that in any way requests, directs or otherwise, any employee not to do overtime, then that is deemed illegal indistrial action! Big fines, lots of hassel!
I'm convinced that if people were asked in the proper manner, they would probably all pull together. In the absence of such a process, most REX pilots who are inclined to work on their days off more than likely feel that "If I don't do it, someone else will". This is especially relevant when you consider the appallingly low salaries of the most junior F/O's. And frankly it's difficult to blame them.
For the record, I do not work on my days off. Mainly because I have come to realise that time with my family is far and away more important than the small financial gain (especially after tax) that I may get.
It's starting to bite however. More REX pilots are now refusing, especially on the weekends. When you consider they only recieve one off every roster, then it becomes all the more important to them. REX are now seriously undercrewed on most weekends. The average number of uncrewed sectors during these days is around 40!
I have heard that the REXPC will be initiating legal industrial action because the company has not acted in good faith during the now failed EBA process. I can only assume that some sort of ban on overtime may result from this process.
Whatever happens though, the company is only manageing to avoid substantial cancellations due to the work by pilots on their RDO's. This situation will only get worse as more REX crews see the light. With luck it may just focus the board's attention to just how valuable their pilots are.
Although, I won't be holding my breath!
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I have all the answers regarding the Rex Cadet Pilot Program...
Krusty, I find it hard to believe that a Rex pilot would waste their time monitoring a cadet forum. Who are you and why do you insist on scaring people away from the program and over to Qantas? Perhaps you yourself are tasting the bitter feeling of an unsuccesful application?
Lets set the record straight -
For all of you hopefulls out there looking for answers, I assure you, this is not the place to be finding those answers. Most of the people posting here have absolutely no relationship to the company or program and are therefore only speculating and stirring.
I urge you, if you are interested in the Rex cadet program, speak to someone in the company or even the cadets themselves. Why not even get yourself out to Mangalore and arrange to look around? See and hear for yourselves, straight from the horses mouths.
Yes, do your research, but do it in the right places!
Consider this:
A) How much money would you pay as a private student to get to the level of theory and flying training that a Rex cadet will at the end of their training? Add to that, the cost of rent, food, utility bills etc. Now remember, after all your hard work, you have no guarenteed job, so start looking at air charter companies up northfor potential work (ferrying frieght, tourists or the "locals" around) - because you'll need to bust your gut there for at least a few years until you even reach the minimums for direct entry FO for a highly regarded RPT operation such as Rex.
Or;
B) for $80,000 (which is salary sacrificed over a 5 year term), spend 8 months training at Mangalore and then you're in the right hand seat of a SAAB340 (that $80,000 includes food, rent, bills, books, flying training etc).
Also, one thing that older posts have failed to include is that, you can leave the company before the 5 year term is up, you just have to pay up front the remainder of your "loan".
I know which option I'd prefer...
In a nutshell, every start up program has a few teething problems. They are now sorted. Cadets are hitting the milestones, studying hard, flying often - on track to be the future of the airline. Those of you who speculate and sit back and judge, you are the fools missing out on this opportunity.
Lets set the record straight -
For all of you hopefulls out there looking for answers, I assure you, this is not the place to be finding those answers. Most of the people posting here have absolutely no relationship to the company or program and are therefore only speculating and stirring.
I urge you, if you are interested in the Rex cadet program, speak to someone in the company or even the cadets themselves. Why not even get yourself out to Mangalore and arrange to look around? See and hear for yourselves, straight from the horses mouths.
Yes, do your research, but do it in the right places!
Consider this:
A) How much money would you pay as a private student to get to the level of theory and flying training that a Rex cadet will at the end of their training? Add to that, the cost of rent, food, utility bills etc. Now remember, after all your hard work, you have no guarenteed job, so start looking at air charter companies up northfor potential work (ferrying frieght, tourists or the "locals" around) - because you'll need to bust your gut there for at least a few years until you even reach the minimums for direct entry FO for a highly regarded RPT operation such as Rex.
Or;
B) for $80,000 (which is salary sacrificed over a 5 year term), spend 8 months training at Mangalore and then you're in the right hand seat of a SAAB340 (that $80,000 includes food, rent, bills, books, flying training etc).
Also, one thing that older posts have failed to include is that, you can leave the company before the 5 year term is up, you just have to pay up front the remainder of your "loan".
I know which option I'd prefer...
In a nutshell, every start up program has a few teething problems. They are now sorted. Cadets are hitting the milestones, studying hard, flying often - on track to be the future of the airline. Those of you who speculate and sit back and judge, you are the fools missing out on this opportunity.
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"kids"
Aussie Aviator - I wonder what the 6 (of the 38 in total) cadets above the age of 32 think of you calling them "kids"?
These guys and girls are not only 'of age', but an even greater number are married and a few even have children!
Lastly; there is no 'gagging' of cadets, they are just all too busy getting on with the job.
Get your facts straight
These guys and girls are not only 'of age', but an even greater number are married and a few even have children!
Lastly; there is no 'gagging' of cadets, they are just all too busy getting on with the job.
Get your facts straight
Last edited by the odyssey; 19th Sep 2008 at 12:51.
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Let's see how hard and fast you get flamed, odyssey
Have you bothered checking who the posters are that you are so liberally rubbishing here?
If, as your few postings here suggest, you are one of the Rex cadets, the naivety of your posts is a match for the obvious denial you're in about the program you paid to join..
Live and learn, let's see how you think about your career move in a few years..
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Let's see how hard and fast you get flamed, odyssey
Have you bothered checking who the posters are that you are so liberally rubbishing here?
If, as your few postings here suggest, you are one of the Rex cadets, the naivety of your posts is a match for the obvious denial you're in about the program you paid to join..
Live and learn, let's see how you think about your career move in a few years..
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Now, first of all, I would like to see the Rex Cadetship become successful. However Odyssey, what you say is a bit misleading for people not in the know. I have spoken to cadets and they describe a program that has not been well run or managed so far. You can blame this simply on "teething problems" but I wouldn't say that is the explanation, there have been many mistakes made since the course began that should never have happened. In addition, I'm sure job security is something weighing on the cadets' minds due to the poor management of the company which is pulling it down, and while management are not giving the pilots and cadets the respect they deserve, I don't see things getting better in the short term. Also, if the program or airline was to fall apart, would the cadets not still have to pay back the amount they owe? And if they did leave before the 5 years that you state is up and they are required to pay back the remaining portion of the loan, wouldn't that outstanding amount be payable immediately? It's not at amount that would be easy to pay back suddenly when you're making approximately $45000 a year. And say these cadets do become first officers, as some will over the next six months or so, they are working for a company that has no respect for its pilots and I can't say that that would be the nicest feeling to work for such a company.
This post has focussed on the negatives so far to provide some balance against what Odyssey has said, but there are many positives coming out of the cadetship, and I think the cadetship would be a great opportunity for young pilots if things were coming along a bit better with the company. However, it is important for any prospective cadets reading this that you do take the time to research the company and weigh up all the positives and negatives so that you can make the best decision. On the whole I think that in theory the cadetship is a good idea and a great opportunity for many, however it would be quite stressful being a cadet or pilot for this company when you just don't know how it is going to go over the next few years.
Fingers crossed that there are some improvements in the near future and good luck to all involved with the company!
This post has focussed on the negatives so far to provide some balance against what Odyssey has said, but there are many positives coming out of the cadetship, and I think the cadetship would be a great opportunity for young pilots if things were coming along a bit better with the company. However, it is important for any prospective cadets reading this that you do take the time to research the company and weigh up all the positives and negatives so that you can make the best decision. On the whole I think that in theory the cadetship is a good idea and a great opportunity for many, however it would be quite stressful being a cadet or pilot for this company when you just don't know how it is going to go over the next few years.
Fingers crossed that there are some improvements in the near future and good luck to all involved with the company!
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Hey Odyssey where can I get a pair of your rose coloured glasses from ? Krusty is in the know on all things REX, you would do well to listen to someone who knows the culture of REX and it's mis-managers.
If you are one of the cadets, for 80K you are being taken for a ride mate...talk about naive
If you are one of the cadets, for 80K you are being taken for a ride mate...talk about naive
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Space Odyssey to .....Nowhere
Hey Spaceman Odyssey,
"the cadets are the future of REX".........I fully agree with you, they are going to be the BLEAK future of REX. The next 6 months or so will see the loss of more high tenured Captains that we are now very, very short of. (please don't leave Krusty, the next EBA will be fantastic) The employment of foreigners is not enough to fill these gaps, especially seeing that NONE of the cadets are upgradeable during their contract.
Yes, being in the right seat of anything >5700kg is nice early in your career, ONLY if you are rightly renumerated, respected and know that the company has a career plan for their pilots.......but then again, you will leave in a few years to fly a jet, and another cadet will come and fill your place, thus, "REX Has Solved Its Pilot Shortage"
I've run out of popcorn....so maybe you can tell me where to but some of those Happy Pills you are being fed?
"the cadets are the future of REX".........I fully agree with you, they are going to be the BLEAK future of REX. The next 6 months or so will see the loss of more high tenured Captains that we are now very, very short of. (please don't leave Krusty, the next EBA will be fantastic) The employment of foreigners is not enough to fill these gaps, especially seeing that NONE of the cadets are upgradeable during their contract.
Yes, being in the right seat of anything >5700kg is nice early in your career, ONLY if you are rightly renumerated, respected and know that the company has a career plan for their pilots.......but then again, you will leave in a few years to fly a jet, and another cadet will come and fill your place, thus, "REX Has Solved Its Pilot Shortage"
I've run out of popcorn....so maybe you can tell me where to but some of those Happy Pills you are being fed?
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Someone has just shot themselves in the foot.
I can see that this would make a great cabin convo...
Odyssey: "Yeah, like I posted something on that PPRune forum. There is this guy called 'Krusty' and he is always flamming Rex etc etc, it's like he has no idea how good Rex is. He thinks he's a know all etc etc but I think he is a w%%%%r. "
Meanwhile, to the left of Odyssey sits the PIC. PIC = Krusty
bahaha
I think this person needs to read the entire thread and re-evaluate his/hers comments.
"32 weeks" to CPLism (new word) - we're almost a year in to the first group induction and still nothing to show. I don't know about you guys, but that is one big flaw (Att: Odyssey - read). But hey, they got a shared roof over their heads and food to eat... all for $80k!
I can see that this would make a great cabin convo...
Odyssey: "Yeah, like I posted something on that PPRune forum. There is this guy called 'Krusty' and he is always flamming Rex etc etc, it's like he has no idea how good Rex is. He thinks he's a know all etc etc but I think he is a w%%%%r. "
Meanwhile, to the left of Odyssey sits the PIC. PIC = Krusty
bahaha
I think this person needs to read the entire thread and re-evaluate his/hers comments.
"32 weeks" to CPLism (new word) - we're almost a year in to the first group induction and still nothing to show. I don't know about you guys, but that is one big flaw (Att: Odyssey - read). But hey, they got a shared roof over their heads and food to eat... all for $80k!
Crikey guys,
Not much point me saying anything else! But you know me. I appreciate the support, but you must be aware odyssey, their support is bourne out of a true knowledge of the situation. I, like others simply choose to make comment on it.
The reason I monitor the cadet forum is because of the implications it will have not just for REX and the current pilot group, but for the Cadets themselves. Follow the advice of the others and have a good read through this and other threads. You will see that I am not anti-REX, but I do care for the long term future of our profession. That future may include cadets, but it should be for the right reasons.
REX pilots are, remuneration wise and relatively speaking, 17-20% worse off today to what they were 10 years ago! That is a fact. The incentive payments for pilots to work on their days off is only 80% of what it was 13 years ago, and that's in real terms! Fact. This is just the tip of the iceberg. The inexorable reduction in professional pilots terms and conditions (aided and abeted by inept company management, Ansett and Hazelton) has led us to where we are today. If you are a cadet odyssey, but somehow I feel you are not, then you are being sold a wages and conditions package that is more than a decade out of date. REX management are pitching this to young and impressionable people, because the pilots they really need are not buying it. In fact, GA has been so decimated by the advantage taken of subsequent pilot groups over the years that there are few left out there with the required experience at all. Those left are not willing to settle for it. And who can blame them.
And don't think REX won't cast you adrift if it suits them. I have it on good authority that REX will simply reduce services further if they are unable to source future Captains. REX has an enviable, if not outstanding debt equity ratio. They could literally cut the company services in half and still survive. Instead of 240 pilots they very well may have to do the job with 120! These will consist of the last remaining 70 or so captains. The rest will be made up of the 50+ F/O's who cannot be upgraded, or maybe the only remaining F/O's that can be. As for the rest, retrenchment. Ever heard that word? So REX makes 10 million a year instead of 20 million, at least untill things bounce back, and that may take years. The real casualties will be the junior non upgradeble pilots at the bottom of the seniority list, and of course the flying public.
But what do they care!
Not much point me saying anything else! But you know me. I appreciate the support, but you must be aware odyssey, their support is bourne out of a true knowledge of the situation. I, like others simply choose to make comment on it.
The reason I monitor the cadet forum is because of the implications it will have not just for REX and the current pilot group, but for the Cadets themselves. Follow the advice of the others and have a good read through this and other threads. You will see that I am not anti-REX, but I do care for the long term future of our profession. That future may include cadets, but it should be for the right reasons.
REX pilots are, remuneration wise and relatively speaking, 17-20% worse off today to what they were 10 years ago! That is a fact. The incentive payments for pilots to work on their days off is only 80% of what it was 13 years ago, and that's in real terms! Fact. This is just the tip of the iceberg. The inexorable reduction in professional pilots terms and conditions (aided and abeted by inept company management, Ansett and Hazelton) has led us to where we are today. If you are a cadet odyssey, but somehow I feel you are not, then you are being sold a wages and conditions package that is more than a decade out of date. REX management are pitching this to young and impressionable people, because the pilots they really need are not buying it. In fact, GA has been so decimated by the advantage taken of subsequent pilot groups over the years that there are few left out there with the required experience at all. Those left are not willing to settle for it. And who can blame them.
And don't think REX won't cast you adrift if it suits them. I have it on good authority that REX will simply reduce services further if they are unable to source future Captains. REX has an enviable, if not outstanding debt equity ratio. They could literally cut the company services in half and still survive. Instead of 240 pilots they very well may have to do the job with 120! These will consist of the last remaining 70 or so captains. The rest will be made up of the 50+ F/O's who cannot be upgraded, or maybe the only remaining F/O's that can be. As for the rest, retrenchment. Ever heard that word? So REX makes 10 million a year instead of 20 million, at least untill things bounce back, and that may take years. The real casualties will be the junior non upgradeble pilots at the bottom of the seniority list, and of course the flying public.
But what do they care!
Last edited by KRUSTY 34; 20th Sep 2008 at 07:09.
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REX pilots are, remuneration wise and relatively speaking, 17-20% worse off today to what they were 10 years ago! That is a fact. The incentive payments for pilots to work on their days off is only 80% of what it was 13 years ago, and that's in real terms! Fact. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
Sure, it's easy to say "if I don't do it somebody else will", but when it all boils down you have to make a stand against the soft cocks. I didn't work a single day off (by choice) in the last 5 years I was at Eastern. Yes, some flights were still cancelled, but time with one's family is more important. Plus, effectively I was taking a command from somebody by working days off. Some companies count on that by keeping their establishment of captains deliberately low and depending on captains' goodwill to take up the slack. Pity the poor guys hanging out for their commands being gazumped by guys too greedy to think of those junior to them.....
If you're not prepared to collectively take a stand, then it's not much use whinging about it.
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REX Failures
2 more Command upgrades made permanent F/O's!
Notwithstanding the fact that REX have been reduced to recruiting pilots with much less experience than that required for command, but now many of those with the minimum experience are failing the upgrade process. This is despite the fact that candidates are being given 3 three attempts instead of the previous 2!
What a sorry situation. I really feel for these people, but I'm afraid there's more to come. Not all fail, and those who get through are to be truely commended. The ratio of failure to sucess however is starting to swing towards the negative. Where once a new pilot had the benefit of several years in the right seat, and a substantial amount of Sim experience to draw upon, they are now litteraly being thrown in at the deep end. Commands at REX are now running at 6 (yes that's right) 6 months from time of joining. This is insufficient time to become fully accustomed to the position of F/O, let alone tackle the demands of command upgrade. The standards of the checks are every bit as rigorous, and in any event CASA are reportedly quite determined that this level be maintained.
The last command to be awarded saw a jump of no less than 17 places on the seniority list. The next lot (due out this week) will see the three instructors at the Mangalore training centre become eligible! And none of them have even flown a SAAB!!!
We are now seeing the results of REX's inability to grasp the true nature of the pilot shortage. There is only one way to describe what this has become.
FARCE!
Notwithstanding the fact that REX have been reduced to recruiting pilots with much less experience than that required for command, but now many of those with the minimum experience are failing the upgrade process. This is despite the fact that candidates are being given 3 three attempts instead of the previous 2!
What a sorry situation. I really feel for these people, but I'm afraid there's more to come. Not all fail, and those who get through are to be truely commended. The ratio of failure to sucess however is starting to swing towards the negative. Where once a new pilot had the benefit of several years in the right seat, and a substantial amount of Sim experience to draw upon, they are now litteraly being thrown in at the deep end. Commands at REX are now running at 6 (yes that's right) 6 months from time of joining. This is insufficient time to become fully accustomed to the position of F/O, let alone tackle the demands of command upgrade. The standards of the checks are every bit as rigorous, and in any event CASA are reportedly quite determined that this level be maintained.
The last command to be awarded saw a jump of no less than 17 places on the seniority list. The next lot (due out this week) will see the three instructors at the Mangalore training centre become eligible! And none of them have even flown a SAAB!!!
We are now seeing the results of REX's inability to grasp the true nature of the pilot shortage. There is only one way to describe what this has become.
FARCE!
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Interesting, I think I'll be asking to repeat a phase or two (10 sectors at a minimum) to ensure I've got the goods to pass the CTL line and sim days first crack! Dont need or want the stress of mucking up and having the Px on the following sim in order to get the 4th bar on my shoulder.
I think the 6 months you talk about is from Day 1 of CTL FO to begining of the ground school for Captain upgrade training. But then again, nothing would surprise me in this game
I still haven't even officially finished my probationay period yet - haha!
go_soaring! instead
I think the 6 months you talk about is from Day 1 of CTL FO to begining of the ground school for Captain upgrade training. But then again, nothing would surprise me in this game
I still haven't even officially finished my probationay period yet - haha!
go_soaring! instead