Merged: Qantas 737 wing inspection lights on for take-off
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Merged: Qantas 737 wing inspection lights on for take-off
Can any Qantas 737 pilots shed some light as to why the wing inspection (I presume) light is on for take-off? Numerous times I have been ready in turn for take off behind a Qantas 737 and have been blinded by these surprisingly bright lights whilst waiting for a lined up 737 to depart. I have to ask - what is the benefit to the departing aircraft versus the distraction/blinding effect it has on other aircraft?
Can anyone please shed some light - maybe it's something I am not aware of?
Can anyone please shed some light - maybe it's something I am not aware of?
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Are you talking about the lights that are on the trailing edge of the wingtip pointing back at the vertical stabiliser or the ones below the emergency exits pointing out to the wingtip?
The whole of Qantas does it any time they are on a runway, be it crossing or lining up. I think its just a SOP.
The lights are about a 1/3 down the fueselage on the side pointing outwards towards the wing tips. Normally 2 on each side.
The lights are about a 1/3 down the fueselage on the side pointing outwards towards the wing tips. Normally 2 on each side.
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And they are F@#king annoying to those at the holding point as the Qf a/c turn onto the runway..... Hey Keg, didn't you say a while back that the procedure requiring that had been rescinded?
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I am referring to those lights about 1/3 down the fuselage that shine along the leading edge of the wing and also into other crews eyes as said aircraft line up.
What gets me though is that they have their wing inspection lights, turn off lights and taxi light on even during the day!! I can understand taxi light but seriously is anyone not going to see you side on during the day?!!?!?!
I know this may be a case of SOP's shoved down the QF boys/girls throats but surely the SOP's leave some room for common sense....right???
I know this may be a case of SOP's shoved down the QF boys/girls throats but surely the SOP's leave some room for common sense....right???
Can anyone please shed some light
Amazing how people are quite happy to put up with the headlights of oncoming vehicles at night, but when someone in an aircraft shines a light at them, you get some sarcastic remark over the radio!
As if the guard police wasn't enough!
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Thanks for injecting the inevitable sarcasm - I think most people would agree that driving safely at night requires the use of headlights, hence it's not really and option. Wing inspection lights on the other hand are, thus I posed the question...
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Ever heard of the saying, "see and be seen"?
The fact you saw the inspection lights, would mean that turning all lights on at ones disposal, had the desired effect.
Dangerous place a runway. Remember Tenerife?
The fact you saw the inspection lights, would mean that turning all lights on at ones disposal, had the desired effect.
Dangerous place a runway. Remember Tenerife?
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The light policy applies to all QF aircraft not just 737's.
These are SOP's.....black and white...so no you cannot apply common sense and just do what you want. The SOP's are quite detailed and leave no room for variation.
Why are QF doing this? I remember getting some memo with an explanation of why but cannot remember the details. Send your letters of complaint to Peter Wilson (Chief Pilot) and tell him what you think.
I know this may be a case of SOP's shoved down the QF boys/girls throats but surely the SOP's leave some room for common sense....right???
Why are QF doing this? I remember getting some memo with an explanation of why but cannot remember the details. Send your letters of complaint to Peter Wilson (Chief Pilot) and tell him what you think.
Pretzal and any other pilots that have had their night vision disturbed by these lights to the point that you felt it was a safety issue.
Use the Qantas safety management system or whatever it is called to lodge a report. This may not result in any change to the Qantas Sops but it will at least require them to investigate the issue.
In the past (admittedly about 8 years ago) I had a problem with something I observed on a Qantas flight. When I tried to report it at the arrival airport I was faced with complete indifference at the counter. I persisted and contacted the safety department in Sydney and got a very positive response with appropriate follow up. They even requested that I make a additional report about the difficulty that I had trying to make the report at the airport. Also received an open invitation to visit the safety department when next in Sydney. Overall I felt that the report was welcomed.
I believe that the safety reporting system of any operator will welcome reports from any responsible reporter if they are made with genuine intent.
At the very least you should file a report with ATSB if you really feel this is a safety issue. Even if nothing is done the report is on file and if more people also report this as a problem it may prompt an investigation and maybe some action.
Just because the lights "policy was introduced last year as a result of recommendations made by Eurocontrol, the FAA and Airservices Australia" does not necessarily make it right.
Use the Qantas safety management system or whatever it is called to lodge a report. This may not result in any change to the Qantas Sops but it will at least require them to investigate the issue.
In the past (admittedly about 8 years ago) I had a problem with something I observed on a Qantas flight. When I tried to report it at the arrival airport I was faced with complete indifference at the counter. I persisted and contacted the safety department in Sydney and got a very positive response with appropriate follow up. They even requested that I make a additional report about the difficulty that I had trying to make the report at the airport. Also received an open invitation to visit the safety department when next in Sydney. Overall I felt that the report was welcomed.
I believe that the safety reporting system of any operator will welcome reports from any responsible reporter if they are made with genuine intent.
At the very least you should file a report with ATSB if you really feel this is a safety issue. Even if nothing is done the report is on file and if more people also report this as a problem it may prompt an investigation and maybe some action.
Just because the lights "policy was introduced last year as a result of recommendations made by Eurocontrol, the FAA and Airservices Australia" does not necessarily make it right.
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See and be seen. How often does ATC ask us, whilst on approach, to spot an aircraft rolling or another joining final during converging runway operations. Until siad aircraft is spotted a visual approach instruction is rarely issued. The more lights and reflections the better. Obviously a bit painful on the ground but you don't have time to switch them on when you select gear up.
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The process is:
Some ace in management decides putting these lights on is a great idea.
A Flight standing order goes out to the troops telling them to do it because its "worlds best practice."
Many troops may disagree but their voices fall on deaf ears.
There is a belief in management that because you are selected to a managerial role you automatically become more intelligent than your fellow pilots, many of whom have been in aviation a lot longer, have much better skills, and have more knowledge than you will ever have. " Worlds best practice" is actually a phrase meaning "in my opinion." However managers opinion wins over line pilots opinion.
I suggest if this practice is causing problems complain to QF and submit safety reports via the available systems.
Some ace in management decides putting these lights on is a great idea.
A Flight standing order goes out to the troops telling them to do it because its "worlds best practice."
Many troops may disagree but their voices fall on deaf ears.
There is a belief in management that because you are selected to a managerial role you automatically become more intelligent than your fellow pilots, many of whom have been in aviation a lot longer, have much better skills, and have more knowledge than you will ever have. " Worlds best practice" is actually a phrase meaning "in my opinion." However managers opinion wins over line pilots opinion.
I suggest if this practice is causing problems complain to QF and submit safety reports via the available systems.
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Airmanship !!
Hey, whatever happened to Airmanship??
Yes, I know it is not taught at flying schools these days and maybe not considered by folk that put out such instructions.
The PIC must always have the option to consider what effect lights (or anything else for that matter) may have on other aircraft. Don't have a problem with lights on crossing rwy's etc, but at the holding point where there are a/c close together in the line or on the runway then some discretion is in my view is just good airmanship.
I remember a 767 pulling up behind me a few times and just his taxi light was enough to kill what night vision I had at the time. If you are in a Metro, Dash or Saab then you eye-level is where it hurts most.
Was it not the commercial dept that said it was best to have the cabin lights to dim for take-off and landing so the punters could enjoy the view or not be woken up on descent? Never mind that QF was one of the few carriers having a policy (up till then) of having the cabin lights on so as to make the a/c easier to see at night. Never mind the cabin safety advantages of having the lights on at that stage of flight! Just keep the punters happy!!!
What’s that word again??? Ah yes..."AIRMANSHIP"
Yes, I know it is not taught at flying schools these days and maybe not considered by folk that put out such instructions.
The PIC must always have the option to consider what effect lights (or anything else for that matter) may have on other aircraft. Don't have a problem with lights on crossing rwy's etc, but at the holding point where there are a/c close together in the line or on the runway then some discretion is in my view is just good airmanship.
I remember a 767 pulling up behind me a few times and just his taxi light was enough to kill what night vision I had at the time. If you are in a Metro, Dash or Saab then you eye-level is where it hurts most.
Was it not the commercial dept that said it was best to have the cabin lights to dim for take-off and landing so the punters could enjoy the view or not be woken up on descent? Never mind that QF was one of the few carriers having a policy (up till then) of having the cabin lights on so as to make the a/c easier to see at night. Never mind the cabin safety advantages of having the lights on at that stage of flight! Just keep the punters happy!!!
What’s that word again??? Ah yes..."AIRMANSHIP"
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For info gents,
The lights "policy was introduced last year as a result of recommendations made
by Eurocontrol, the FAA and Airservices Australia"
Regards,
BH.
The lights "policy was introduced last year as a result of recommendations made
by Eurocontrol, the FAA and Airservices Australia"
Regards,
BH.
Cheers
Geez, I always considered some of my fellow countrymen to be anal in matters pertaining to aviation, but this is bloody ridiculous. If the f...ing lights annoy you, don't look at them!