Merged: Pel Air vs RFDS for the Air Ambulance contract in Australia
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Sounds ike a CHARLIE FOXTROT in the making to me.....will someone remember in about 3 years to bring this thread and this post to the surface............I may be wrong, but I think it will be a case of ........
Isn't the trend in the USA for regular crashes of EMT aircraft?
Reduction in the experience base must be world's best practice then...
Reduction in the experience base must be world's best practice then...
Okay I knew this would come out sooner or latter.
I'll add a bit here seeing as I am directly effected
Yes it's true the RFDS has been unsuccessful in the next contract in Melb.
Sydney unknown as yet but doesn't look good.
We have a great team down here, top management with the best C&T guys you will get in the business, pilots who can do the job with their eyes closed all well above the mins many in the 5000-10000 hr bracket. Engineers who are worth their weight in gold. The admin staff who really run the place we just do as we are told are terrific people:-)
The fact is that it's a Govt commercial contract & when Govts are involved anything is possible, anyone recall the Amann Aviation fiasco many years ago?
Pelair/Rex obviously have a lot of clout & I wish them well because it's not an easy contract to stay on top of. Anyone can fly a KingAir they are idiot proof that's not the issue it means making several quick decisions on the run under some very adverse conditions that counts, pilots need to be extraordinary at times, will be interesting to see if Pelair use this contract and others (if they win others) as a proving/training ground so to speak for their up & coming 'gringos'! Just an opinon that's all.
I have my doubts as to whether the currect drivers will take on the new employers if they do indeed get offered jobs as there is certaintly almost no chance of us getting our current hard fought T&C's, this will be the deciding factor for us older pilots, early retirment looks good:-)
So I hope that puts to rest some that might be thinking otherwise here. It's been a great ride for allmof us & there is still some fun times & great mateship to be had before we go under but all good things come to an end. The only saving grace might be the fact that 2 years in aviation ('till the end of the current contract) is a very long time, anything could happen & probably will.
ANSETT who? I always thought they where as safe as eggs, most did, but now?..............I rest my case!
cheers
Wmk2
I'll add a bit here seeing as I am directly effected
Yes it's true the RFDS has been unsuccessful in the next contract in Melb.
Sydney unknown as yet but doesn't look good.
We have a great team down here, top management with the best C&T guys you will get in the business, pilots who can do the job with their eyes closed all well above the mins many in the 5000-10000 hr bracket. Engineers who are worth their weight in gold. The admin staff who really run the place we just do as we are told are terrific people:-)
The fact is that it's a Govt commercial contract & when Govts are involved anything is possible, anyone recall the Amann Aviation fiasco many years ago?
Pelair/Rex obviously have a lot of clout & I wish them well because it's not an easy contract to stay on top of. Anyone can fly a KingAir they are idiot proof that's not the issue it means making several quick decisions on the run under some very adverse conditions that counts, pilots need to be extraordinary at times, will be interesting to see if Pelair use this contract and others (if they win others) as a proving/training ground so to speak for their up & coming 'gringos'! Just an opinon that's all.
I have my doubts as to whether the currect drivers will take on the new employers if they do indeed get offered jobs as there is certaintly almost no chance of us getting our current hard fought T&C's, this will be the deciding factor for us older pilots, early retirment looks good:-)
So I hope that puts to rest some that might be thinking otherwise here. It's been a great ride for allmof us & there is still some fun times & great mateship to be had before we go under but all good things come to an end. The only saving grace might be the fact that 2 years in aviation ('till the end of the current contract) is a very long time, anything could happen & probably will.
ANSETT who? I always thought they where as safe as eggs, most did, but now?..............I rest my case!
cheers
Wmk2
Sad day for the RFDS guys and girls at YMEN.
Brave move for the Victorian Government and in particular the Health Minister. With the RFDS being in the aeromedical business since 1928 and owning a large fleet of B200's, you thought they would have put in a very competive tender and had the expertise as well.
Hope its not another Amman Aviation in the making!
Little birdie told me that Pelair are planning to operate B350's on the Victorian and NSW contracts.
GAM will also feel the pinch as they do some of RFDS maintenance in YMEN.
Brave move for the Victorian Government and in particular the Health Minister. With the RFDS being in the aeromedical business since 1928 and owning a large fleet of B200's, you thought they would have put in a very competive tender and had the expertise as well.
Hope its not another Amman Aviation in the making!
Little birdie told me that Pelair are planning to operate B350's on the Victorian and NSW contracts.
GAM will also feel the pinch as they do some of RFDS maintenance in YMEN.
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Dissapointing for the rfds pilots with the conditions they have built up over time
Will there be PC-12s?
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FGD135
Unfortunately you are absolutely correct although it just means the same amount of jobs except the pilots now have to live on the breadline. My guess for aircraft is B200's or 350's.
Edit
Wally Mk2
You know, two years is a long time in aviation these days, you never can tell. Another pilot shortage?, a wages breakout?. REX/Pelair is an industry savvy ORG, there is just no way this could be used as a training ground, if anything they would need to use REX mainline as the training ground and I think they know that.
Unfortunately you are absolutely correct although it just means the same amount of jobs except the pilots now have to live on the breadline. My guess for aircraft is B200's or 350's.
Edit
Wally Mk2
You know, two years is a long time in aviation these days, you never can tell. Another pilot shortage?, a wages breakout?. REX/Pelair is an industry savvy ORG, there is just no way this could be used as a training ground, if anything they would need to use REX mainline as the training ground and I think they know that.
Last edited by PPRuNeUser0161; 7th Jul 2009 at 12:06.
Yr right guys (FGD) they are going to do it cheaper, no doubt about it. It simply cost the RFDS X amount of bucks to run the contract & they would have been too dear at the end of the day to match the winners. For our price you get quality, less doesn't always mean better:-(
You have a fairly level playing field when it comes to purchasing & the running costs regardless of airframes. The fuel will always be the same allowed for in anyones tender BUT the thing that can be kept cheap & controllable (at a human cost) is the people who work there, they are the ones you can screw down & make it work for peanuts (well try to anyway), the rest isn't negotiable. Remember this is a Govt contract with penalties attached for non conforming performances. It won't be a walk in the park for Pelair but I still wish their employees all the best when they do take over, afterall it's the guys on the ground (so 2 speak) that will make it work not the Mr 'El-cheapo' in SQ!.
"SN" It's only my opinion that the contract could be a training ground for their other operations. Very difference beast SP ops againts 2 crew RPT Ops mostly done during normal working hrs. The few guys that came to us from RPT 2 crew found it very hard at first to adjust, the other way round would be far easier.Top guys now though.
"OS" a tear ot two will flow the day we park them for the last time, we have had ( & still are) some great treatment from you guys, keep it up Med 1 works everytime even 1POB
(kidding)
"FGD" contract only allows for twins, that's the once saving grace that kept most of us there, the safety side of things. An option is for B350's but that brings a whole set of new problems for the current based ops requirements, we shall see.
Wmk2
You have a fairly level playing field when it comes to purchasing & the running costs regardless of airframes. The fuel will always be the same allowed for in anyones tender BUT the thing that can be kept cheap & controllable (at a human cost) is the people who work there, they are the ones you can screw down & make it work for peanuts (well try to anyway), the rest isn't negotiable. Remember this is a Govt contract with penalties attached for non conforming performances. It won't be a walk in the park for Pelair but I still wish their employees all the best when they do take over, afterall it's the guys on the ground (so 2 speak) that will make it work not the Mr 'El-cheapo' in SQ!.
"SN" It's only my opinion that the contract could be a training ground for their other operations. Very difference beast SP ops againts 2 crew RPT Ops mostly done during normal working hrs. The few guys that came to us from RPT 2 crew found it very hard at first to adjust, the other way round would be far easier.Top guys now though.
"OS" a tear ot two will flow the day we park them for the last time, we have had ( & still are) some great treatment from you guys, keep it up Med 1 works everytime even 1POB
(kidding)"FGD" contract only allows for twins, that's the once saving grace that kept most of us there, the safety side of things. An option is for B350's but that brings a whole set of new problems for the current based ops requirements, we shall see.
Wmk2
Wally, as another controller who deals with you guys every day I thoroughly agree with OS. We bugger you around when you aren't MED1 so we're square!
A Rolls-Royce service comes with a commensurate price tag I guess. Pelair has some very big shoes to fill.
A Rolls-Royce service comes with a commensurate price tag I guess. Pelair has some very big shoes to fill.
Wonder what the Pel-Air T&Cs for aeromed ops will be? - Pay for endorsement + a bond and I reakon all casuals hourly rate! Imagine the money that will save - paying those aeromed guys for that 'standby' time costs a fortune !
Very sad - where will cost cutting end in aviation ?
Very sad - where will cost cutting end in aviation ?
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The RFDS team at EN, were the best bunch I have ever worked with!
Sorry to hear that my friends are being displaced and Air Ambulance Victoria are loosing such a great team. I hope that all who fly with the ambulance Victoria may never know the difference.
Sorry to hear that my friends are being displaced and Air Ambulance Victoria are loosing such a great team. I hope that all who fly with the ambulance Victoria may never know the difference.
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Lester; maybe the RFDS were overpriced, who knows...but you have to wonder about the state of play in general when ambulance services are
?? Or is it just me?
in a commercial world
If 350's are being used, wouldn't it stand to reason that there will be quite a few strips now that will be inaccessible to them, due to being too short for a Balanced Field Length etc?
j3
j3
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RFDS relies heavily on donations for the aquisition of new aircraft.
The people of the bush (and the city)are aware of this and have got behind the RFDS since its inception. The RFDS has, over a long time, earnt the respect of these people - many of whom have seen loved ones helped if not saved. People who sleep well at night knowing that the "mantle of safety" is there if needed.
I doubt the same level of respect and support will be shown to a newcommer.
They are some big boots to fill.
Good luck!
The people of the bush (and the city)are aware of this and have got behind the RFDS since its inception. The RFDS has, over a long time, earnt the respect of these people - many of whom have seen loved ones helped if not saved. People who sleep well at night knowing that the "mantle of safety" is there if needed.
I doubt the same level of respect and support will be shown to a newcommer.
They are some big boots to fill.
Good luck!
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j3pipercub
The short answer is no. The 350 may may operate into any strip so long as it has been surveyed and the aircraft is at a weight that can comply with the balanced field requirements. Most strips in VIC have been surveyed by the RFDS over the years and i'm sure Pelair will do the same if indeed they are to operate the 350.
Illusion
Your name says it all!
The short answer is no. The 350 may may operate into any strip so long as it has been surveyed and the aircraft is at a weight that can comply with the balanced field requirements. Most strips in VIC have been surveyed by the RFDS over the years and i'm sure Pelair will do the same if indeed they are to operate the 350.
Illusion
Your name says it all!