Ohhhh dear...Not Again!!
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The 'Bat Cave' @ HLP in the Big Durian Indo
Age: 61
Posts: 781
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Owen,
I have to disagree that Australia is corrupt.
On the World forum Australia is pretty clean and the system works well in 99.9% of cases , there is a published procedure , pricing structure etc.
Try doing business in a developing country in Asia , Africa , South America etc then you'll see how good it is in Oz.
What does exist is 'backing up your mates' and in this case it sounds like some guys backed the wrong horse.
Hi Richard , is this the first time you have had a run in with this particular guy or is this a chapter in an on ongoing feud ? Reading between the lines I reckon there's some history here.
.
I have to disagree that Australia is corrupt.
On the World forum Australia is pretty clean and the system works well in 99.9% of cases , there is a published procedure , pricing structure etc.
Try doing business in a developing country in Asia , Africa , South America etc then you'll see how good it is in Oz.
What does exist is 'backing up your mates' and in this case it sounds like some guys backed the wrong horse.
Hi Richard , is this the first time you have had a run in with this particular guy or is this a chapter in an on ongoing feud ? Reading between the lines I reckon there's some history here.
.
Last edited by aseanaero; 27th Apr 2009 at 07:09. Reason: I can't spell ...
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have had dealings with The Commonwealth Ombudsman V CASA and a tactic of theirs is to get in before you with an "own motion" investigation that somehow shows they are being transparent. It also limits The Ombudsman in his terms of reference.
Any complaint to the Commonwealth Ombudsman usually depends on you suspending other avenues pending the outcome which can take years. (Read above para. Mine took over 12 months). The perpetrators in the meantime drift off into oblivion and as non CASA employees thereafter not subject to internal disciplinary action.
The Ombudsman has terms of reference that enable him to investigate "the" complaint against a Commonwealth entity which in this case should focus on the Commonwealth Police and a separate complaint against CASA. If the complaint is against CASA only, the coppers get off without having to explain themselves.
Put this in the political arena through your local member. This will guarantee someone higher than a Bureaucrat acts on the outcome be it as a sitting member or outraged opposition.
Any complaint to the Commonwealth Ombudsman usually depends on you suspending other avenues pending the outcome which can take years. (Read above para. Mine took over 12 months). The perpetrators in the meantime drift off into oblivion and as non CASA employees thereafter not subject to internal disciplinary action.
The Ombudsman has terms of reference that enable him to investigate "the" complaint against a Commonwealth entity which in this case should focus on the Commonwealth Police and a separate complaint against CASA. If the complaint is against CASA only, the coppers get off without having to explain themselves.
Put this in the political arena through your local member. This will guarantee someone higher than a Bureaucrat acts on the outcome be it as a sitting member or outraged opposition.
Ohhh dear...Not again!!. An Update.
For those that posted, esp Spotlight and Captn IO, and showed an interest in the delightful CASA MO regarding the sorry tail of the Wilga...latest news.
The CASA ICC came to the conclusion that ALL those CASA persons involved be dealt with by the AFP. Prior to his report I had put in my own brief to the AFP for action. Sorry too much: not enough staff and dollars to deal.!
Must have spent it all chasing a Bankcard.
CASAs action to ICC... NIL. Many months later, CASA 2IC, has taxpayer funded "brain-snap" and signs off on ANOTHER (Contracted out) "investigation"... but limited only to the Tarmac Trio... thus protecting the CB office wallies who.."thought they could make this stick".
A couple of months ago I got a whisper that the Comm. Ombudsman had become involved, so I queried this and asked if they could look into why CASA has taken NO action, punitive or legal, against their employees, who have clearly broken the Law, and are still "ops normal" on the public payroll.
Who will be their next victim I wonder?.
Ombudsman is investigating, and to date, have had NO response from CASA because..Dah, dah.!. (trumpets, drum roll!) CASA has bounced it on to the shiny new, CEO inspired, "Ethics & Conduct Committtee". !!
So its the same old, same old.. exactly: the Police "investigating" the Police.
In this day and age Oz Aviation Industry deserves way MUCH better.
But dont hold yr breath.!
The CASA ICC came to the conclusion that ALL those CASA persons involved be dealt with by the AFP. Prior to his report I had put in my own brief to the AFP for action. Sorry too much: not enough staff and dollars to deal.!
Must have spent it all chasing a Bankcard.
CASAs action to ICC... NIL. Many months later, CASA 2IC, has taxpayer funded "brain-snap" and signs off on ANOTHER (Contracted out) "investigation"... but limited only to the Tarmac Trio... thus protecting the CB office wallies who.."thought they could make this stick".
A couple of months ago I got a whisper that the Comm. Ombudsman had become involved, so I queried this and asked if they could look into why CASA has taken NO action, punitive or legal, against their employees, who have clearly broken the Law, and are still "ops normal" on the public payroll.
Who will be their next victim I wonder?.
Ombudsman is investigating, and to date, have had NO response from CASA because..Dah, dah.!. (trumpets, drum roll!) CASA has bounced it on to the shiny new, CEO inspired, "Ethics & Conduct Committtee". !!
So its the same old, same old.. exactly: the Police "investigating" the Police.
In this day and age Oz Aviation Industry deserves way MUCH better.
But dont hold yr breath.!
The thing is, if they are convicted of an offence involving dishonesty, the they are out of a job. Furthermore, how can they take any enforcement action against anybody if they have been convicted of an offence involving dishonesty? How can they even hold an ASIC?
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Permanently lost
Posts: 1,785
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ombudsman is investigating, and to date, have had NO response from CASA because..Dah, dah.!. (trumpets, drum roll!) CASA has bounced it on to the shiny new, CEO inspired, "Ethics & Conduct Committtee". !!
What surprises me is the AFP not getting involved in a case of a public servant misusing their legislatively granted power, committing perjury (it was a sworn affidavit) and conspiring to pervert the course of justice. Perhaps they are still stinging over the spanking they got after the debacle with that doctor on the Gold Coast.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Over the Rainbow
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you were wondering what the likely outcome of this will be, read on.
Insults and vilification cowardly - Director
John McCormick, Director of Aviation Safety
The Director of Aviation Safety has hit out at people who insult, denigrate and vilify CASA officers.
John McCormick told a Senate estimates committee hearing last week that self-serving and false attacks on CASA and its officers were wrong and unfair.
He said in some cases these types of attacks on CASA’s people were “downright cowardly”.
The Director said there is a big difference between candid and robust criticism which challenges CASA to lift its game and vindictive public disparagement of individual CASA officers by name and station.
“CASA is certainly no stranger to criticism, complaints and variably informed expressions of dissatisfaction with the things we do and the way we do them from the diverse industry we regulate, amongst others,” the Director told the Senate committee.
“I welcome this, as a responsible director of any regulatory authority should welcome balanced, reasonable and constructive advice about where we may have gone wrong, or where we may at least be seen by some to have gone wrong, or where we might do better.
“Well-meaning criticism can be helpful, even if it is wide of the mark, and it gives us a better understanding of the way our actions are perceived and experienced.
“So let me be clear: I have absolutely no interest in discouraging or dissuading our critics from drawing CASA’s actual or assumed shortcomings to my attention, to the government’s attention, or to the attention of the Australian public.
“As I said, I welcome and embrace this.
“At the same time, however, let me be equally clear in highlighting the very significant difference between candid, robust criticism of CASA’s actions as an organisation and what cannot fairly be characterised as other than mean-spirited, tendentiously self-serving and frequently false accusations about, and the vindictive public disparagement of, individual CASA officers by name and by station.
“This is wrong and unfair and, in some cases, I think it is downright cowardly.
“It does nothing to advance the interests of air safety or organisational improvement, and it almost certainly is not intended to do either.
“If left unaddressed, it impugns the reputations and integrity of committed, capable and professional individuals who are dedicated to the critical, and sometimes thankless, regulatory and other safety related tasks, and it takes a serious toll on the morale of the entire staff in ways that, I dare say, some of those who try to conceal what is often nothing more than demagogic vitriol behind the facade of a pointed revelatory critique could not begin to understand.”
I think its fairly obvious where he stands on the issue of accountability, he welcomes criticism but just dont mention any names or individuals might get upset ( or indeed held to account for breaking the law) and thats just not on, is it.
Insults and vilification cowardly - Director
John McCormick, Director of Aviation Safety
The Director of Aviation Safety has hit out at people who insult, denigrate and vilify CASA officers.
John McCormick told a Senate estimates committee hearing last week that self-serving and false attacks on CASA and its officers were wrong and unfair.
He said in some cases these types of attacks on CASA’s people were “downright cowardly”.
The Director said there is a big difference between candid and robust criticism which challenges CASA to lift its game and vindictive public disparagement of individual CASA officers by name and station.
“CASA is certainly no stranger to criticism, complaints and variably informed expressions of dissatisfaction with the things we do and the way we do them from the diverse industry we regulate, amongst others,” the Director told the Senate committee.
“I welcome this, as a responsible director of any regulatory authority should welcome balanced, reasonable and constructive advice about where we may have gone wrong, or where we may at least be seen by some to have gone wrong, or where we might do better.
“Well-meaning criticism can be helpful, even if it is wide of the mark, and it gives us a better understanding of the way our actions are perceived and experienced.
“So let me be clear: I have absolutely no interest in discouraging or dissuading our critics from drawing CASA’s actual or assumed shortcomings to my attention, to the government’s attention, or to the attention of the Australian public.
“As I said, I welcome and embrace this.
“At the same time, however, let me be equally clear in highlighting the very significant difference between candid, robust criticism of CASA’s actions as an organisation and what cannot fairly be characterised as other than mean-spirited, tendentiously self-serving and frequently false accusations about, and the vindictive public disparagement of, individual CASA officers by name and by station.
“This is wrong and unfair and, in some cases, I think it is downright cowardly.
“It does nothing to advance the interests of air safety or organisational improvement, and it almost certainly is not intended to do either.
“If left unaddressed, it impugns the reputations and integrity of committed, capable and professional individuals who are dedicated to the critical, and sometimes thankless, regulatory and other safety related tasks, and it takes a serious toll on the morale of the entire staff in ways that, I dare say, some of those who try to conceal what is often nothing more than demagogic vitriol behind the facade of a pointed revelatory critique could not begin to understand.”
I think its fairly obvious where he stands on the issue of accountability, he welcomes criticism but just dont mention any names or individuals might get upset ( or indeed held to account for breaking the law) and thats just not on, is it.
You might find that this person's son 'CASA airworthiness inspector' and this person 'Director of Aviation Safety' were airforce buddies who later both worked for Cx.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Over the Rainbow
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its also worth noting that he was part of the 'Star Chamber' that attempted to assist in the crucification of the 49ers. He is no stranger to dirty backroom dealings and then the coverup and denial of such illegal shennanigans.
If he was such an honest and upright person why didnt he march into that court room and tell the truth, he had YEARS to do just that. He and his ilk had no problems in doing to those unfortunates exactly what he is so loudly complaining about critics of CASA doing now.
Difference being, a court has ruled he and his cronys were in fact LIARS.
He now wont allow his 'boys' face the courts if he can avoid it, chances are VERY good the same sort of result would occur again. The cover ups and obfuscation will continue, count on it.
If he was such an honest and upright person why didnt he march into that court room and tell the truth, he had YEARS to do just that. He and his ilk had no problems in doing to those unfortunates exactly what he is so loudly complaining about critics of CASA doing now.
Difference being, a court has ruled he and his cronys were in fact LIARS.
He now wont allow his 'boys' face the courts if he can avoid it, chances are VERY good the same sort of result would occur again. The cover ups and obfuscation will continue, count on it.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Ethics & Conduct Committtee
The cover ups and obfuscation will continue, count on it
You might find that this person's son 'CASA airworthiness inspector' and this person 'Director of Aviation Safety' were airforce buddies who later both worked for Cx.
Ohhhh dear...Not Again!!
Just passed the 3rd anniversary of the dirty deed.. thought I'd give all you good folk, and others, an update on proceedings.
Having dealt with the Ombudsman twice and the AFP yet again, the final outcome there is nix, nought, nothing. AFP have a legal out. My plaint as an individual gets a run down their list,.. Case categorization and Prioritization... and drops off the bottom as a no-goer.
And I thought Perjury and Conspiracy to pervert the course of justice was pretty serious stuff, but apparently not,... silly old me to think so.
AFP either too busy or done all their dough on dud phone cards and bike repairs in Israel.
CASA, corruptly in my opinion, changed the thrust of the second external investigation of my allegations of criminality, into one of breach of their Code of Conduct. The 2 surviving AWIs got "administrative sanctions" imposed... but I can't know what that is.!! (Give you a)Serve & Protect (ourselves) is their motto, obviously.
The 4 page letter I got from CASA's shiny, new (Un) Ethical and (Mis) Conduct committee is worthy of a gold medal in bureaucratic obfustication and crappology. And the signatory noted, "signed by direction"... ie under duress. Not the author.
He who is about to get done over in court didnt have the balls to put his name to it.
Following that I sent a circular letter to aviation businesses in FNQ advising them that these people, are still out the and on the job.... and do take precautions so you dont get hit with a similar event.
As a result of that, I received a heavy duty "threat" letter from The Aust Solicitor General. Obviously been briefed untruthfully by CASA...because he stated.." there had been no evidence from any body of criminality".
Hullo ?.... the result of TWO (2) investigations have clearly shown gross wrongdoing and exactly that.
Once apprised of the facts, silence ensured.
After some initial legal advice, I have a couple of other things to follow up and
I intend to keep hammering away.
CASA is a "bureaucracy" (sic) that gives bureaucracy a bad name.
And I sincerely believe that We the people have entered the age of failing/failed? bureaucracies.
I'll keep you posted.
Having dealt with the Ombudsman twice and the AFP yet again, the final outcome there is nix, nought, nothing. AFP have a legal out. My plaint as an individual gets a run down their list,.. Case categorization and Prioritization... and drops off the bottom as a no-goer.
And I thought Perjury and Conspiracy to pervert the course of justice was pretty serious stuff, but apparently not,... silly old me to think so.
AFP either too busy or done all their dough on dud phone cards and bike repairs in Israel.
CASA, corruptly in my opinion, changed the thrust of the second external investigation of my allegations of criminality, into one of breach of their Code of Conduct. The 2 surviving AWIs got "administrative sanctions" imposed... but I can't know what that is.!! (Give you a)Serve & Protect (ourselves) is their motto, obviously.
The 4 page letter I got from CASA's shiny, new (Un) Ethical and (Mis) Conduct committee is worthy of a gold medal in bureaucratic obfustication and crappology. And the signatory noted, "signed by direction"... ie under duress. Not the author.
He who is about to get done over in court didnt have the balls to put his name to it.
Following that I sent a circular letter to aviation businesses in FNQ advising them that these people, are still out the and on the job.... and do take precautions so you dont get hit with a similar event.
As a result of that, I received a heavy duty "threat" letter from The Aust Solicitor General. Obviously been briefed untruthfully by CASA...because he stated.." there had been no evidence from any body of criminality".
Hullo ?.... the result of TWO (2) investigations have clearly shown gross wrongdoing and exactly that.
Once apprised of the facts, silence ensured.
After some initial legal advice, I have a couple of other things to follow up and
I intend to keep hammering away.
CASA is a "bureaucracy" (sic) that gives bureaucracy a bad name.
And I sincerely believe that We the people have entered the age of failing/failed? bureaucracies.
I'll keep you posted.
I have a prior history with CASA from a decade ago... got put out of business, as a photographer /aerial. Can do it ...but not for money. And the CAA act 1988 specifically states CASA is a "safety" regulator, NOT a commercial regulator. But you all know about the appalling Reg environment we have to suffer.
This recent episode... never seen before these 3 AWIs... "Senior", no less and who didnt even know wtf they were looking at.!!!
It was all bull**** revenge theatre because I told the one who had made a bad call to Foxtrot Oscar.
Why do they do it...Because they can.!
CASA has peed away mega taxpayers dollars in the process... but who cares. Efficiency and good goverenance.?? WTFs that?. Not from this mob.
Or the truth either.
This recent episode... never seen before these 3 AWIs... "Senior", no less and who didnt even know wtf they were looking at.!!!
It was all bull**** revenge theatre because I told the one who had made a bad call to Foxtrot Oscar.
Why do they do it...Because they can.!
CASA has peed away mega taxpayers dollars in the process... but who cares. Efficiency and good goverenance.?? WTFs that?. Not from this mob.
Or the truth either.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Greta
Age: 67
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CAA,CASA same ol same ol
The CAA played this game and it backfired on them. Anyone ever meet CAA investigator Gerry Commerford? Ex Fed cop. i sat in a wittness box and watched as the beak tore strips off him for lying.
Nothing has changed and never will. Ever.
Nothing has changed and never will. Ever.
Ohhhh dear... Not Again!!
Frank, I did write to Warren Truss,... as in bridge,girder...then Opposition Transport Shadow (!) Minister. Thought it might have been of political interest etc, (ha ha).
Got a nice letter back after X weeks telling me what a beaut safety record this wonderful country has etc, etc blah, blah.
Should have gone down to the Storey Bridge and banged my head on a steel stanchion, warren truss as in bridge girder. Same result.
Got a nice letter back after X weeks telling me what a beaut safety record this wonderful country has etc, etc blah, blah.
Should have gone down to the Storey Bridge and banged my head on a steel stanchion, warren truss as in bridge girder. Same result.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
Posts: 2,606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What about Bob katter. Are you in his electorate?
He would be one of the most powerful people in Australia today and is a good ambassador for GA in the bush.
He may not be in a position to do anything right now, but it will go on record.
PS, send a copy to CASA OLC for their records. It may just put them on edge a bit, given current events.
Cheers mate.
He would be one of the most powerful people in Australia today and is a good ambassador for GA in the bush.
He may not be in a position to do anything right now, but it will go on record.
PS, send a copy to CASA OLC for their records. It may just put them on edge a bit, given current events.
Cheers mate.
Map of Bob Katter's electorate.
http://www.bobkatter.com.au/kennedy.pdf
He can be rally suborn and lets say, maybe even 'pig headed' for a cause if he believes in it. I am no fan, but he can really dig in heals in when he wants to.
If he takes your case up of mis justice, it may go somewhere.
http://www.bobkatter.com.au/kennedy.pdf
He can be rally suborn and lets say, maybe even 'pig headed' for a cause if he believes in it. I am no fan, but he can really dig in heals in when he wants to.
If he takes your case up of mis justice, it may go somewhere.