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Jacobson Flare

Old 25th Mar 2009, 12:13
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Jacobson Flare

This was brought to my attention, The Jacobson Flare. At my flying school I have enquired / mentioned it and, very interestingly, got polarised reactions!
It's fantastic! It's rubbish! OK... black or white views, interesting.
Any topic (aviation or otherwise) where there are these extreme opposite views from what I deem as intelligent, educated, experienced people gets my attention.
What are your thoughts on this, have you heard of it?
Do you instruct or use this technique yourself?
IS it pilot/aircraft portable?

The Jacobson Flare

Love to hear your thoughts....
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Old 26th Mar 2009, 00:05
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Hi 2211,

I personally believe it's a good thing to use. Just read through it and go in the aircraft and try it for a couple of times and see for yourself.

I guess the best way to describe it is that it takes the guess work out of the equation. If you line yourself up on a 4 degree descent path (if you are flying something GA like a C172 or PA28) on final (eg, 550ft at 1.3-1.4nm from the threshold) and use the techniques of Jacobson flare, you should have pretty good landings.

Hope that helps and happy landings.
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Old 26th Mar 2009, 04:46
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I like the Lodown Flare myself. "Pull back before hitting the ground too hard." Works for all different descent paths and aircraft; long, slow approaches, steep glides, curved approaches around the trees, flapless, power on, power off, nosewheel, tailwheel, single, multi, dodging termite mounds and cattle, skipping over the boundary fence and avoiding mud puddles. Gets the passengers imprinting their fingernails on the armrests at times, but I haven't injured one yet.

Not saying it's good or bad, but if you use the Jacobson flare all the time in a GA job at 550' and a 1.4 mile final for a 4 degree approach, you'll be out of a job after a few weeks and straight into the airlines.

...intelligent, educated, experienced people...
You're at the wrong web address for this.

Last edited by Lodown; 26th Mar 2009 at 04:56.
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Old 26th Mar 2009, 04:51
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I just watch the Captain and when he flinches I flare.
Havent figured out what to do by myself yet. Will you keep you posted.
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Old 26th Mar 2009, 06:48
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Unbelievable

I find it hard to believe that so much scientific jargon can be written about a manouvere that is simple to execute if you have a stabilised approach and the correct speed at the threshold. Does the guy that wrote it work for CASA ????? Thought I would ask because they always write a book when one short phrase will do it.

Groggy
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Old 26th Mar 2009, 07:20
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Complicated means better doesn't it??? Flown the smallest to the biggest and never thought too damn hard about it. Gives inadequate instructors a clinical reason as to why they can't teach you how to land properly.
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Old 26th Mar 2009, 08:16
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New DVD on landing!!

Yes Lodown,
I'm also releasing a book called "The Skywagon bounce" I rabbit on about "longitudinal position (pedal you bastard)" etc and a paragraph or two about "runway occupancy times" these occupancy times initially vary between 1 and 0.5 sec but increase as the the aircraft proceeds down the runway .
The cover shows a photo of me ,smiling ,inside the "bus" with the glass cockpit HUD etc in the background.
It's also available on DVD and if you order within the hour you get a free SIDs expired 404 (pick up only).
MC
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Old 26th Mar 2009, 08:45
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Good in theory, not so practical. In a lighty perhaps it is OK, but in a jet, the "picture" out the front changes too much and too fast to be able to use the JF as the sole means of "arriving". Keeping on the slope (3, by the way, not 4!) means the windscreen point that is on the aimpoint won't be for very long, esp in gusty/bumpy conditions.
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Old 26th Mar 2009, 08:49
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Good grief...who is this dill?

Somehow I manage to go from B767-Bonanza-C185 without this treatise and you know why?

The same time honoured technique works in all of them.
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Old 26th Mar 2009, 08:52
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I not only use it but had the privilage to be taught by the man himself. It works very well on everything I have flown from C152 to the MD83..including a few years flying into PNG airstrips..never once have I thought of the mathematics of it..thats for the classroom..Constant aim point..throttles for speed..Flare when aim point is out of view..new aim point horizzon..result = aeroplane lands itself..I have taught this to many young pilots and everyone comes away happy and more confident.

And for those that dont know Capt Jacobson is a very experienced Airline Training captain..

Now all you GA experts can pull my comments to pieces if you like but the facts remain the same..
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Old 26th Mar 2009, 10:04
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well Dave will be happy to know he has become another aviation acronym, JF.

met him and had it demoed years ago, i respect it and appreciate the effort he has made on the JF. after all an autoland although different shows that it is about numbers and science.

myself, i'm more in touch with my creative side, so an approach,landing and rollout is an art form!
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Old 26th Mar 2009, 11:17
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Chimbu, me too. Never mattered to me whether it's was a DC3, C310 or hang glider (and yes I have flown all sometimes on the same day) the flare height is simple. Whatever the half wing span - which you can usually see by simply focussing on the wingtip for a few seconds somewhere down final approach - is the height to think about flaring. There is nothing magic about the flare - simply reduce the rate of descent to something that the gear and passengers can stand while simultaneously removing power/thrust. Most aeroplanes are pretty good at landing themselves if not over-controlled. Watch an auto-land sometime - the automatics seem to do very little other than level off and chop the power.
And all this bullsh!t about looking at the far end of the runway? Instead try applying the first principle of motor-cycling i.e. 'you go where you look'. So if you look at where you intend to touch down, that's where you will touch down. Unless you are going too fast or do something silly in the flare like pull the stick back into your guts.
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Old 26th Mar 2009, 11:48
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Keeping on the slope (3, by the way, not 4!)
A closer study of what he said was that four degrees is for light singles. In fact, a powered approach in a Cessna 150 with 1200 rpm and full flap is more like six degree angle with a glide approach in a Tiger Moth (no flaps)at idle throttle about the same. Mr Jacobson's theory on flare technique was designed to be applicable to jet transports as well as lighties and nothing to do with the actual angle of approach. Three degrees is purely an ILS angle and used by heavier types.
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Old 26th Mar 2009, 12:20
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Bottom line it works.

You just have to spend the time to read and understand the technique. Having already mastered the art of landing, then the normal human tendency to resist change will probably not embrace learning something new (unless you take the time to work thru it). The author is a very experienced Airline Captain and has presented his paper at many aviation gatherings, tho' I have not seen him about recently.
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Old 26th Mar 2009, 12:36
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What a come-down

A personally invaluable technique (day only) is to overdevelop the flare into a balloon.

When the flare hits the balloon, the latter explodes, the bottom drops out and a landing "arrival" results. It's quite reliable. I learnt the technique early during my prop-swinging Tiger-Schmidt days. That way I got to call: "CONTACT" both at the beginning and end of each mission. For some reason that was very important to me then ...... and I have been developing my aviation contacts ever since.

"Day only" because the flares at night are quite disorienting - particularly when they interact with the hydrogen-filled balloons. It's only recently that I've been applying thick lube to the spaces between the tyre-treads in an attempt to refine my arrival technique into smooth "greasers".

Everybody thinks that the ever thickening black deposits at each end of the average runway is tyre rubber. In point of fact I believe that it is grease being deposited by some very unoriginal people who are pirating my grease-it-on technique (including John Travolta - the ultimate "greaser").

The technique works equally well with nosewheel and tailwheel, land or seaplane, blimp, dirigible, sailplane, hang-glider or balloon.

The only hazard appears to be when the flare misfires and the balloon deflates, resulting in a divergent phugoid that starts with the nosewheel and develops quite porpoisefully.

For that reason I am thinking of swapping my flare for flair. Please refer to my technique as the Master Chef's flare - only because it is frequently under-cooked, sometimes medium rare and never well-done.
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Old 26th Mar 2009, 13:02
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Constant aim point..throttles for speed..Flare when aim point is out of view..new aim point horizzon..result = aeroplane lands itself
When I've had the instructors hat on, that's exactly the way I've taught students to land the aeroplane. A couple of things though.
The new aim point isn't the horizon, it's the end of the runway. You don't have a horizon as such anymore, so that's the reference point (end of the runway) as you holding off/flaring the aircraft.

And all this bullsh!t about looking at the far end of the runway?
Where else are you going to look? You're not going to be looking at the top of the cowl which might be around six feet in front of you and you're certainly not going to be looking out of the side window.
If you fly a constant attitude apprach with the aim point sitting nicely in the windscreen (in the same spot hopefully), you can't arrive at anything else but the aim point at roundout height.
Once the aim point dissapears under the nose, the aircraft is rounded out to someting like the S & L attitude and you are now looking down at the end of the runway.
And what are we all looking for? ATTITUDE. The aircraft lands in a certain attitude. Just like it climbs in a certain attitude, flys S & L in a certain attitude, it lands in a particular attitude.
Getting that bit right is the key to any successful landing. You get the attitude right and everything else falls into place.
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Old 26th Mar 2009, 13:39
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Where else are you going to look?
Well, actually I have caught myself at times trying to look as far around the left hand side of the cowl at the ground as I can and other times directly out to the side out of necessity. There are many, many visual cues and peripheral vision and aircraft feel and sound is just as important to me as the aim point disappearing under the nose, horizons and the end of the runway. That said, there are 1001 ways to land an aeroplane. Somehow or another, pilots appear to be about 99.999999999% successful at putting the parts of an aircraft that are meant to come in contact with the ground onto the runway prior to any of the other parts of the aircraft.

Jacobson has a valid discussion and has been presenting his technique for years now. It works and it's safe. I just think it's overanalyzing a small, but important part of a relatively straightforward manouevre and ignoring many other cues that other pilots may use for successful landing techniques, but that's how some people like it. I have a friend who can't tell you the time without explaining how the watch works. He would embrace the Jacobson flare with gusto.

Last edited by Lodown; 26th Mar 2009 at 14:17.
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Old 26th Mar 2009, 14:12
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Looking down and then along at the end of the runway

I can still hear one of my very first instructors telling me to stretch the nose to the end of the runway upon flaring after looking down,down,down at the runway on the approach and that view slowly changing to looking along at the runway, a very strong landing cue.

I have taught this to my students ever since with little problem however I am open to new ways to skin the landing cat. For example I could flare the Airtourer rather high and it would be forgiving but if I tried the same with a C152 Cessna bounce would likely develop or a heavy landing, aptly demonstrated by a certain MD11 earlier this week although I believe conditions were 'iffy' for that one....

I still feel this is something to be eyeballed and the 'Jacobson technique' in question is likely to be more succesful with slightly larger aircraft than a basic trainer. However I am a 'junior' instructor and open to correction although anything offered/suggested will be discussed at length with my CFI.

RPP
 
Old 26th Mar 2009, 23:21
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The Jacobson flare, sounds easy ....
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Old 26th Mar 2009, 23:37
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Principal flare technique, keep your eyes open, hit the ground gently and as slowly as possible.
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