Bankstown Closed 4 Ccts
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Bankstown Closed 4 Ccts
YSBK is now closed for circuits for 1 hour in the morning and 1 hour in the afternoon at the peak times. What an absolute cluster, what did they think was going to happen when they closed Hoxton Park people were not going to fly?
There was a big meeting and the reopening of Schofields and Hoxton were both spoken about.
The reason for closing YSBK, not enough controllers ATC. What did they think when they were not training enough for years?
Some people astound me , really.
Kickatinalong
There was a big meeting and the reopening of Schofields and Hoxton were both spoken about.
The reason for closing YSBK, not enough controllers ATC. What did they think when they were not training enough for years?
Some people astound me , really.
Kickatinalong
Yes they always stopped the circuit for IFR traffic but now it is closed at other times (an extra two hours). Which is crazy and annoying! Yet another example of AsA not providing the service they are meant to. This is what happens when you have a monopoly on something. Look at the U.S.S.R.
Closed 4 ccts?
Those extra two keystrokes to write "for" must have been too much effort.
I must be getting old, I don't see the point in this Gen Y shorthand dribble!
Those extra two keystrokes to write "for" must have been too much effort.
I must be getting old, I don't see the point in this Gen Y shorthand dribble!
Oh boy another Mod in the making here
'RG' good pick up there
Is it such a bad thing that circuit training is stopped for the busy period?
It's most likely as a few have said here due lack of ATC but if that is the case do we need to see yet another mid-air if push came to shove?
As they say, safety comes at a cost.
Wmk2
'RG' good pick up there
Is it such a bad thing that circuit training is stopped for the busy period?
It's most likely as a few have said here due lack of ATC but if that is the case do we need to see yet another mid-air if push came to shove?
As they say, safety comes at a cost.
Wmk2
I think it is because they are short staffed. They dont want to stop people coming and going. They can regulate the workload by limiting circuits. If they had enought staff I think this would not be happening.
Hoxton closure has affected Camden, especiallly during the week. They will need to revive ATC on weekdays at Camden soon (or will it require an accident first?). Last Sunday Camden was turning away arrivals for circuits (possibly from Bankstown).
Hoxton closure has affected Camden, especiallly during the week. They will need to revive ATC on weekdays at Camden soon (or will it require an accident first?). Last Sunday Camden was turning away arrivals for circuits (possibly from Bankstown).
I understand why they did it but we should never be in the situation where we need to close due to staff shortages. AsA need a good kick in the butt. We are paying them to provide a service and they can't even do that. Yes tough times, yes there will be periods where there is a staff shortage but surely they can't be this short.
BK is a Training (among other things) Airport, how would you like it if your business couldn't complete some of it's bread and butter tasks (circuit training) for two hours a day?
BK is a Training (among other things) Airport, how would you like it if your business couldn't complete some of it's bread and butter tasks (circuit training) for two hours a day?
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Aviation is an essential part of national infrastructure. ATC is treated like a call-centre operation. Until someone does an awareness-building, 4 corners-type expose that manages to get the PM to put a rocket up the clueless minister to get the house in order, the time until repairs can be made will lengthen. That means, from the time they wake up, it will still be years before anything is fixed.
Threads exist on pprune from 4 years ago (and earlier) warning exactly this would happen.
Lots of money to be thrown at infrastructure, it seems (stimulus packages). Except as far as aviation is concerned. "Selling the farm", piece by piece, only works for so long. It appears that day has come.
Threads exist on pprune from 4 years ago (and earlier) warning exactly this would happen.
Lots of money to be thrown at infrastructure, it seems (stimulus packages). Except as far as aviation is concerned. "Selling the farm", piece by piece, only works for so long. It appears that day has come.
I would like to point out, the guys are Bankstown are amazing, I recognise everyone by voice and each manages to balance professionalism, being pissed off at wankers who can't fly properly (and students who make honest mistakes) and fun. I will never forget after my first solo circuit where I made a shocking landing, upon switching to ground the controller contacts me and says 'XXX, Congratulations on your first solo, well done. We have just sent someone out to collect the bits of landing gear you left on the runway!'
If any of you read this, I am sure everyone who flys out of BK feels for you.
If any of you read this,
I am sure everyone who flys out of BK feels for you.
Haha, RG, nice one!!!
I should have a breathalyser linked to my keyboard before posting sometimes!
I should have a breathalyser linked to my keyboard before posting sometimes!
Have a bit of sympathy guys, try sequencing 3 C150s doing 80kts in the circuit with arriving turbo props doing 150kts. Remember you have YSSY controlled airspace right next to you. I know from experience going in there uncontrolled, that having even two much slower aircraft in the circuit could make for a very difficult arrival if they were spaced out sufficiently.
It may not be lack of controllers, things may simply have got too busy for a safe operation. Remember a mid air last year ?
It may not be lack of controllers, things may simply have got too busy for a safe operation. Remember a mid air last year ?
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we were grounded at YSBK due to circuit closure, a right pain in the arse.....
opening YHOX is out, the runway no longer exists, but Schoeis is still in tact..
as said before, and operating out of bankstown, the guys in the tower dont get paid enough! they do a brillaint job, especially with our tecnams, tiger moths, and a Citation all in the air at the same time...and the usual liberty crowd.
now labour is back in, how about a ATC and GA pilot strike.. demanding the opening of schofields! in the interests of safe flight training and improved ATC and pilot conditions...
opening YHOX is out, the runway no longer exists, but Schoeis is still in tact..
as said before, and operating out of bankstown, the guys in the tower dont get paid enough! they do a brillaint job, especially with our tecnams, tiger moths, and a Citation all in the air at the same time...and the usual liberty crowd.
now labour is back in, how about a ATC and GA pilot strike.. demanding the opening of schofields! in the interests of safe flight training and improved ATC and pilot conditions...
Sprucegoose
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with arriving turbo props doing 150kts.
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This from another post on D&G Reporting points, we don't have enough controllers, but we've got managers by the bucketload. A selection below.
These are senior managers, there are the 'other' managers below, and then the other managers below them. Plus the executive above the senior managers
We have 480 people working in the Alan Woods Building in Canberra diligently looking after your interests. We have a total staff of @3000. There are just over 800 operational controllers around Australia.
Don't worry they have just 'restructured' the recent management restructure, and the restructures will continue until things are structured.
I am sure this will give you a warm feeling as you are sitting delayed on the ground, burning fuel, and paying for aircraft hours that you can't put to a productive use. The current CEO was told of the impending staff shortages in 2005 and streamlined (gutted)the training area, to save money. He has since spent his productive time restructuring and disparaging his controllers in the media. If you go to Eurocontrol, Germany, Ireland and the Middle East you will find quite a few of the 'missing' controllers.
It will get worse before it gets better, as we are now playing a long game of catch-up.
Manager ATM Planning & Capability
Manager, Ernst & Young
ATM Capability Manager - National ATC
NOC Optimisation Manager
Business Support Manager
Resource Planning and Rostering Manager
Manager, Business Support
National Operations Centre and CTMS Manager
Program Manager, National Operations Centre (NOC)
Manager, Upper Air Weather Service
NTMP Project Manager
Regional AIM Manager
Manager, Operations Support
National Manager AIS
ATC Projects Implementation Manager
Tower ATC Support and Procedures Manager
National ATC Systems Manager
Operations Manager – Systems
Manager AusFIC
Standards Improvement Manager, ECS
Standards Improvement Manager UAS/RS
Manager, Regional Airports
Relationship Manager
Manager ASEAN Relations
Manager, Contract Management & OCR Accounts
Contracts Manager
Group Operations Manager
Business Services Manager
Manager - Marketing & Relationship Development
Bids and Analysis Manager
Northern Asia / GNSS Sales Manager
National / Defence Sales Manager
PNG Country Program Manager
ITSAP Project Manager
Manager Neighbourhood Capability Development
Project Management & Aviation Solutions Manager
Manager Project Delivery and Aviation Solutions
GBAS Project Manager
Minor Projects Service Delivery Manager
Defence Technical Contract Manager
Product Commercialisation & Aviation Solutions Manager
Enterprise Risk Integration Manager
Manager, Compliance
Manager, National Property
Property and Infrastructure Manager
Facilities Manager
Manager, Property Management
Manager Property Operations
Property Manager
Manager, Security
Manager, Shared Services
Credit Manager
Manager, Operations and Initiatives
Records Management Unit Manager
Manager Airline Relations
Manager, Airport Relations
Defence Relationship and Planning Manager
Defence Relationship Manager
Manager - Environment and Climate Change
Manager Public Affairs
Manager for Regulatory Reform and Business Information
Environment Manager
Manager Business Integration
Accounting Operations – Manager
Business Performance Manager
Manager Corporate Accounting & Policy
Accounting Operations Manager
Financial Accounting & Policy Manager
Manager, Treasury
Manager Taxation
Treasury Operations Manager
Manager Financial Strategy
Strategic Support Manager
Corporate Planning Manager
Business Analysis Manager
Business Planning Manager
Manager Pricing and Revenue
Manager Group Finance
Finance Manager - Corporate Initiatives
Finance Manager – ARFF
Finance Manager – ATC
Finance Manager - Head Office
Finance Manager - Performance Improvement
Finance Manager – TAS
Manager, Procurement & Corporate Efficiency
Advisory Team Manager
Manager, Change Management
Manager Training
Delivery Manager
Design Manager
Planning & Forecasting Manager
Simulator and Support Manager
Manager, People Services
Manager, People Strategy
Human Factors Manager, Operations
Manager Human Factors and Analysis
Human Factors Manager - Research and Design
Manager, Crisis and Continuity Planning
Manager Safety Enhancement and Development
Safety System Manager
Operational Risk System Manager
Workplace System Manager
Manager Safety Programs / CEO Airservices Pacific
Safety Analysis Manager
Northern Safety Programs Manager
Safety Program Identification & Development Manager
Safety Promotions Manager
Southern Safety Programs Manager
Manager, Safety Services
Documentation Services Manager
Northern Safety Services Manager
Southern Safety Manager
Branch Manager, Service Integrity
Engineering Integrity Manager
National Document Manager
Operational Integrity Manager
Regulatory Services Manager
Regulatory Compliance Manager
National Licensing Manager
Manager Strategic Planning
Manager, Intellectual Property
Manager Priority and Coordination
Manager, Business Strategy
Manager Strategy
Branch Manager - Aviation Business Systems
Airways Information Technology Manager
Business Systems Manager
Eurocat Manager – ABS
Infrastructure Services Manager
Test Manager
Manager, Facilities Management Services
Manager, Adelaide FMS
FMS Manager Brisbane Region
Manager, Canberra FMS
FMS Regional Manager Cairns
Manager, Melbourne FMS
Manager, Perth FMS
Manager, Sydney FMS
Technical Manager
Manager, Technical Support FMS
Branch Manager, Planning and Integration
Manager, Asset Lifecycle
Manager, Communications PI
Frequency Spectrum Manager
Manager Information Technology
Manager, Infrastructure
Manager Navigation & Surveillance
Operations Manager, Planning and Integration
Manager, Planning PI
Manager: Information Communication Technology (ICT) Planning
Installation Manager
Procurement and Contracts Manager
Engineering Manager Electronics & Communication
Manager, Project Delivery
Project Manager NTP
Program Manager, Airports and Surveillance
Contracts Project Manager
Project Manager – TEDP
Senior Project Manager - NationalTowers Program
Manager, Resourcing Capability and Asset Services
Laboratory Manager
NTP - Tower Technology Project Manager
Manager, Contract Support
Manager, Contracts
Project Manager, Software and DDID Services
Project Manager – Communications
Business Analyst/Project Manager
Project Manager - TINR Satellite Project
Project Manager TiNR Pilot Network
Manager, TAS Support
Branch Manager, System Operations
Quality Systems Manager
Business Engagement Manager
SO Operations Manager
Service Desk Manager
Manager, Project Performance and Review
each by what, 160k?
These are senior managers, there are the 'other' managers below, and then the other managers below them. Plus the executive above the senior managers
We have 480 people working in the Alan Woods Building in Canberra diligently looking after your interests. We have a total staff of @3000. There are just over 800 operational controllers around Australia.
Don't worry they have just 'restructured' the recent management restructure, and the restructures will continue until things are structured.
I am sure this will give you a warm feeling as you are sitting delayed on the ground, burning fuel, and paying for aircraft hours that you can't put to a productive use. The current CEO was told of the impending staff shortages in 2005 and streamlined (gutted)the training area, to save money. He has since spent his productive time restructuring and disparaging his controllers in the media. If you go to Eurocontrol, Germany, Ireland and the Middle East you will find quite a few of the 'missing' controllers.
It will get worse before it gets better, as we are now playing a long game of catch-up.
Manager ATM Planning & Capability
Manager, Ernst & Young
ATM Capability Manager - National ATC
NOC Optimisation Manager
Business Support Manager
Resource Planning and Rostering Manager
Manager, Business Support
National Operations Centre and CTMS Manager
Program Manager, National Operations Centre (NOC)
Manager, Upper Air Weather Service
NTMP Project Manager
Regional AIM Manager
Manager, Operations Support
National Manager AIS
ATC Projects Implementation Manager
Tower ATC Support and Procedures Manager
National ATC Systems Manager
Operations Manager – Systems
Manager AusFIC
Standards Improvement Manager, ECS
Standards Improvement Manager UAS/RS
Manager, Regional Airports
Relationship Manager
Manager ASEAN Relations
Manager, Contract Management & OCR Accounts
Contracts Manager
Group Operations Manager
Business Services Manager
Manager - Marketing & Relationship Development
Bids and Analysis Manager
Northern Asia / GNSS Sales Manager
National / Defence Sales Manager
PNG Country Program Manager
ITSAP Project Manager
Manager Neighbourhood Capability Development
Project Management & Aviation Solutions Manager
Manager Project Delivery and Aviation Solutions
GBAS Project Manager
Minor Projects Service Delivery Manager
Defence Technical Contract Manager
Product Commercialisation & Aviation Solutions Manager
Enterprise Risk Integration Manager
Manager, Compliance
Manager, National Property
Property and Infrastructure Manager
Facilities Manager
Manager, Property Management
Manager Property Operations
Property Manager
Manager, Security
Manager, Shared Services
Credit Manager
Manager, Operations and Initiatives
Records Management Unit Manager
Manager Airline Relations
Manager, Airport Relations
Defence Relationship and Planning Manager
Defence Relationship Manager
Manager - Environment and Climate Change
Manager Public Affairs
Manager for Regulatory Reform and Business Information
Environment Manager
Manager Business Integration
Accounting Operations – Manager
Business Performance Manager
Manager Corporate Accounting & Policy
Accounting Operations Manager
Financial Accounting & Policy Manager
Manager, Treasury
Manager Taxation
Treasury Operations Manager
Manager Financial Strategy
Strategic Support Manager
Corporate Planning Manager
Business Analysis Manager
Business Planning Manager
Manager Pricing and Revenue
Manager Group Finance
Finance Manager - Corporate Initiatives
Finance Manager – ARFF
Finance Manager – ATC
Finance Manager - Head Office
Finance Manager - Performance Improvement
Finance Manager – TAS
Manager, Procurement & Corporate Efficiency
Advisory Team Manager
Manager, Change Management
Manager Training
Delivery Manager
Design Manager
Planning & Forecasting Manager
Simulator and Support Manager
Manager, People Services
Manager, People Strategy
Human Factors Manager, Operations
Manager Human Factors and Analysis
Human Factors Manager - Research and Design
Manager, Crisis and Continuity Planning
Manager Safety Enhancement and Development
Safety System Manager
Operational Risk System Manager
Workplace System Manager
Manager Safety Programs / CEO Airservices Pacific
Safety Analysis Manager
Northern Safety Programs Manager
Safety Program Identification & Development Manager
Safety Promotions Manager
Southern Safety Programs Manager
Manager, Safety Services
Documentation Services Manager
Northern Safety Services Manager
Southern Safety Manager
Branch Manager, Service Integrity
Engineering Integrity Manager
National Document Manager
Operational Integrity Manager
Regulatory Services Manager
Regulatory Compliance Manager
National Licensing Manager
Manager Strategic Planning
Manager, Intellectual Property
Manager Priority and Coordination
Manager, Business Strategy
Manager Strategy
Branch Manager - Aviation Business Systems
Airways Information Technology Manager
Business Systems Manager
Eurocat Manager – ABS
Infrastructure Services Manager
Test Manager
Manager, Facilities Management Services
Manager, Adelaide FMS
FMS Manager Brisbane Region
Manager, Canberra FMS
FMS Regional Manager Cairns
Manager, Melbourne FMS
Manager, Perth FMS
Manager, Sydney FMS
Technical Manager
Manager, Technical Support FMS
Branch Manager, Planning and Integration
Manager, Asset Lifecycle
Manager, Communications PI
Frequency Spectrum Manager
Manager Information Technology
Manager, Infrastructure
Manager Navigation & Surveillance
Operations Manager, Planning and Integration
Manager, Planning PI
Manager: Information Communication Technology (ICT) Planning
Installation Manager
Procurement and Contracts Manager
Engineering Manager Electronics & Communication
Manager, Project Delivery
Project Manager NTP
Program Manager, Airports and Surveillance
Contracts Project Manager
Project Manager – TEDP
Senior Project Manager - NationalTowers Program
Manager, Resourcing Capability and Asset Services
Laboratory Manager
NTP - Tower Technology Project Manager
Manager, Contract Support
Manager, Contracts
Project Manager, Software and DDID Services
Project Manager – Communications
Business Analyst/Project Manager
Project Manager - TINR Satellite Project
Project Manager TiNR Pilot Network
Manager, TAS Support
Branch Manager, System Operations
Quality Systems Manager
Business Engagement Manager
SO Operations Manager
Service Desk Manager
Manager, Project Performance and Review
each by what, 160k?
Last edited by max1; 8th Feb 2009 at 02:10.
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Only in Australia!
Max1,
2200 staff to support 800 controllers!
If those figures you've quoted are correct, then that is a discrace!
That is the kind of figure that Civil Air should be making public, IMHO!
DIVOSH!
2200 staff to support 800 controllers!
If those figures you've quoted are correct, then that is a discrace!
That is the kind of figure that Civil Air should be making public, IMHO!
DIVOSH!
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Di Vosh,
To be fair, there are around 600 firies, plus Ausfic, Techs, etc.
ASA need to look at who works 24/7/365 and then work out how many people they need to support the core business. We have around 50 people in 'Corporate Relations' aka the Department of Spin.
It is the empire builders of Canberra who need to be looked at closely. I would think we would probably have in the order of 2000 people involved in the delivery of service, plus we need a healthy training area.
To be fair, there are around 600 firies, plus Ausfic, Techs, etc.
ASA need to look at who works 24/7/365 and then work out how many people they need to support the core business. We have around 50 people in 'Corporate Relations' aka the Department of Spin.
It is the empire builders of Canberra who need to be looked at closely. I would think we would probably have in the order of 2000 people involved in the delivery of service, plus we need a healthy training area.