Bankstown Closed 4 Ccts
You will NOT be able to jump over the Safety barrier/wall labelled "jobs for the boys"
Our Govt is & has always been top heavy in all sectors of governing, aviation is just but one part of the rought.
Now that we have 'shinny Kev' at the helm all you ill get out of him is talk!
Just a little thread drift so relax TID
Did anybody see the stint on TV recently (this morning here in ML) about how many times the Lab Govt ministers have said the word..........'silver bullet'?, ya gotta wonder who's writing all this crap.........the lab Govt are just a joke
ATC do a great job under extreme lack of resource. I love my local crew at the twr, after nearly 30 yrs I gotta go visit 'em, can ya do that these days with all the crap security rubbish?
Wmk2
Our Govt is & has always been top heavy in all sectors of governing, aviation is just but one part of the rought.
Now that we have 'shinny Kev' at the helm all you ill get out of him is talk!
Just a little thread drift so relax TID
Did anybody see the stint on TV recently (this morning here in ML) about how many times the Lab Govt ministers have said the word..........'silver bullet'?, ya gotta wonder who's writing all this crap.........the lab Govt are just a jokeATC do a great job under extreme lack of resource. I love my local crew at the twr, after nearly 30 yrs I gotta go visit 'em, can ya do that these days with all the crap security rubbish?
Wmk2
Thanks 'HH' I've tried a few times to go visit but the doors always locked, they never answer their phone & the lights are off when I come knockin', hmmmmmm do ya 'tink they are trying to tell Wmk2 sumfin'?
Wmk2
Wmk2
max1
Is that list of managers fairdinkum? I dont doubt your integrity, but hell man, there appears to be a manager of everything. No wonder aviation in Oz is so god damm expensive.
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Bankstown 1/2 Closed 4 CCTS
It looks like during the 9:30 to 10:30 and 3:30 to 4:30 time slots we can now have 4 A/C in the Southern Circuit (normally 6-8)and 1 in the northern cct on an adhoc situation, things improving? I don't think so. I know there is 1 ATC who is busting his balls to get to YSBK and give Melb the big "A" they cannot tell him when he can come, same cluster different day.
They have NFI what's happening.
Kickatinalong.
They have NFI what's happening.
Kickatinalong.
If Camden is to reopen Monday to Friday, then BK/CN staffing would need to increase to at least 18.
There is a whole new section of ASA that is looking at recruiting experienced ATCs and working through the various staff transfers/movements that need to occur to get the nunbers right at each location.
The overall management of BK Tower has recently changed from a Canberra based manager to a Sydney based manager who might be able to extract the necessary resources from elsewhere in the organisation.
It will be years before there are sufficient staff. The only thing that might save ASA is a severe economic downturn that significantly curtails aviation activity.
I'm sure that the boys and girls at BK TWR appreciate the kind words posted.
There is a whole new section of ASA that is looking at recruiting experienced ATCs and working through the various staff transfers/movements that need to occur to get the nunbers right at each location.
The overall management of BK Tower has recently changed from a Canberra based manager to a Sydney based manager who might be able to extract the necessary resources from elsewhere in the organisation.
It will be years before there are sufficient staff. The only thing that might save ASA is a severe economic downturn that significantly curtails aviation activity.
I'm sure that the boys and girls at BK TWR appreciate the kind words posted.
Last edited by sunnySA; 8th Feb 2009 at 10:22. Reason: editorial
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There is a whole new section of ASA that is looking at recruiting experienced ATCs and working through the various staff transfers/movements that need to occur to get the nunbers right at each location.
The overall management of BK Tower has recently changed from a Canberra based manager to a Sydney based manager who might be able to extract the necessary resources from elsewhere in the organisation.
The overall management of BK Tower has recently changed from a Canberra based manager to a Sydney based manager who might be able to extract the necessary resources from elsewhere in the organisation.
In the only job I ever held, working as a Control Desk Operator, kind of like an ATC, just different industry, at the premier performance space in Australia, we had 150 tech crew including casuals and 400 administrative.
That is our Govenment-Labor, or Liberal or anything else. Truth is none of them, Federal or State have the guts to clean up the most powerful organised crime unit in this country-The Public Service.
the most powerful organised crime unit in this country-The Public Service
Guess who ? The ever dwindling number of productive working people, and small business. The previously mentioned groups operate together to maintain the status quo. Heaven help anyone who tries to rock their boat.
The way Australia is run I'm surprised there is only one army. Surely each state and territory should have it's own with different training, tactics, uniforms, weapons and equipment. Instead of one commander there would be eight with a good salary and nice retirement package.
Schofields
Wartime strip for sale - Local News - News - General - Blacktown Sun
Does anyone here know why it was closed as a GA airport? I know it's close to YSRI but they don't do much any more and its not exactly surrounded by suburbia yet.
Does anyone here know why it was closed as a GA airport? I know it's close to YSRI but they don't do much any more and its not exactly surrounded by suburbia yet.
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ArnoldE,
That list is probably incomplete. Quite a number of those mentioned only purpose is to liaise with others and get updates,collate stuff and put out memos to others, have meetings,etc.
They want to be kept updated on what is happening, do presentations to each other, fly to meetings and come out with reports that love using words like client-centric, end-to-end, vision, focus worlds best practice, key stakeholders, delivering the future, building going forward.
Meanwhile the poor bugger who is trying to develop the project is caught up in endless meetings, keeping these people 'informed' and trying to get the resources to move things forward, whilst trying to justify their existence. These managers see their mission as getting accountability from the people actually doing things, and don't see the irony of what employing them and flying them around the country actually costs the bottom line.
A good example would be the Flight Plan Conflict Probe. This piece of separation software would allow 'free flight' and has been promised to the airlines for years, unfortunately the very smart individual has had to fight to get the time and money to get the development done. There has been no lack of money to fly managers up for meetings, overnighters,etc. They then return to Canberra with glossy reports and promises to industry that it is just around the corner, after having been told by the individual that he needs controllers to test it, and modifications done by the software writers. None of which seem to be available. Development of RNP approaches are another good example, something the airlines want, that the individual concerned is forever having to fight for.
In regards to Bankstown, a recently retired Brisbane controller (who went early after having had enough) who was an ex-SATC, checkie at Tamworth was asked if he would come back and go to Tamworth. This would allow a TW
controller to be released to a job he had won 18 months ago to BK.
Said retiree said he would go as long as they paid him the top level(12) at TW, he really didn't want to come back but agreed to help out. They agreed but then said they would only pay level 10. He said we agreed to Level 12, after mucking him about , they said Level 11. He said we agreed to Level 12 and if they were going to muck him about (again) they could forget it. The difference in money is about $80p.w. For this $80 p.w. ($4k p.a.) the TW controller could have finally been released to a job he won a promotion to, and TW and BK would not have been left short.
This was all going on shortly after the Waypoint conference, paid for by ASA ( the industry), a 2 day nosh-up for ASA managers to tell industry how well they are going or earnestly apologise for how well they are not going.
ASA spent $500k on rental cars last year.
I would guess the yearly airfare bill would be somewhere way North of this. Several managers commute on a weekly basis from around Australia to Canberra (airfares and accomodation paid by ASA i.e. you) to assist in managing their work/life balance.
The HR manager went to a conference in Portugal for Christs sake. The running joke is also how much time TFN spends attending industry conferences around the globe. BTW I believe they get to keep all their frequent flyer points.
No wonder they couldn't come up with $80p.w. to get an extra controller at Bankstown. Controllers believe we are there to serve industry, management have a somewhat different view.
That list is probably incomplete. Quite a number of those mentioned only purpose is to liaise with others and get updates,collate stuff and put out memos to others, have meetings,etc.
They want to be kept updated on what is happening, do presentations to each other, fly to meetings and come out with reports that love using words like client-centric, end-to-end, vision, focus worlds best practice, key stakeholders, delivering the future, building going forward.
Meanwhile the poor bugger who is trying to develop the project is caught up in endless meetings, keeping these people 'informed' and trying to get the resources to move things forward, whilst trying to justify their existence. These managers see their mission as getting accountability from the people actually doing things, and don't see the irony of what employing them and flying them around the country actually costs the bottom line.
A good example would be the Flight Plan Conflict Probe. This piece of separation software would allow 'free flight' and has been promised to the airlines for years, unfortunately the very smart individual has had to fight to get the time and money to get the development done. There has been no lack of money to fly managers up for meetings, overnighters,etc. They then return to Canberra with glossy reports and promises to industry that it is just around the corner, after having been told by the individual that he needs controllers to test it, and modifications done by the software writers. None of which seem to be available. Development of RNP approaches are another good example, something the airlines want, that the individual concerned is forever having to fight for.
In regards to Bankstown, a recently retired Brisbane controller (who went early after having had enough) who was an ex-SATC, checkie at Tamworth was asked if he would come back and go to Tamworth. This would allow a TW
controller to be released to a job he had won 18 months ago to BK.
Said retiree said he would go as long as they paid him the top level(12) at TW, he really didn't want to come back but agreed to help out. They agreed but then said they would only pay level 10. He said we agreed to Level 12, after mucking him about , they said Level 11. He said we agreed to Level 12 and if they were going to muck him about (again) they could forget it. The difference in money is about $80p.w. For this $80 p.w. ($4k p.a.) the TW controller could have finally been released to a job he won a promotion to, and TW and BK would not have been left short.
This was all going on shortly after the Waypoint conference, paid for by ASA ( the industry), a 2 day nosh-up for ASA managers to tell industry how well they are going or earnestly apologise for how well they are not going.
ASA spent $500k on rental cars last year.
I would guess the yearly airfare bill would be somewhere way North of this. Several managers commute on a weekly basis from around Australia to Canberra (airfares and accomodation paid by ASA i.e. you) to assist in managing their work/life balance.
The HR manager went to a conference in Portugal for Christs sake. The running joke is also how much time TFN spends attending industry conferences around the globe. BTW I believe they get to keep all their frequent flyer points.
No wonder they couldn't come up with $80p.w. to get an extra controller at Bankstown. Controllers believe we are there to serve industry, management have a somewhat different view.
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Camden re opening?
If Camden re opens during the week they drag their controllers from Bankstown, this would only make it worse at Bankstown.
I think the best thing they could do is buy back Hoxton, rerole & reseal the runway and tell BAL to bite their Bums. The cost would be bugger all really, BAL can't sell any factory space or hangars anyhow.
Kickatinalong.
I think the best thing they could do is buy back Hoxton, rerole & reseal the runway and tell BAL to bite their Bums. The cost would be bugger all really, BAL can't sell any factory space or hangars anyhow.
Kickatinalong.
Sorry, I may have missed it. Where is this promulgated? ERSA or NOTAM? Or is this closure just a local procedure that outsiders (like myself) would only find out about if we arrived at BK and were told "sorry, come back in an hour"?
Thanks
Thanks
When I was last down at my flying club the Notam was up, that would be 2 weekends ago. Don't see why they would cancel it between now and then... having said that don't see how you can let staff shortages get this bad 
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Why does it take so train an ATC?
Is controlling (I use the term loosely) mostly light GA traffic at a small secondary airport in the suburbs in a microscopic control zone, where aircraft are responsible for their own separation, that difficult?
Surely, they could get a supervised junior up to speed in a few months?
Why do they ALL need to be so highly qualified and paid so much?
There's no radar and only about 5 things they can actually do in a GAAP!
Surely, they could get a supervised junior up to speed in a few months?
Why do they ALL need to be so highly qualified and paid so much?
There's no radar and only about 5 things they can actually do in a GAAP!
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What a trip down memory lane this thread has been......ccts at Bankstown, Hoxton and Camdem in a few marks of Pitts during the early 90's.
I always found the ATC chaps at Bankstown and Camden (Hox was uncontrolled IIRC) were ALWAYS professional, helpful, courteous and had a wonderful sense of humour.
On yer guys
I always found the ATC chaps at Bankstown and Camden (Hox was uncontrolled IIRC) were ALWAYS professional, helpful, courteous and had a wonderful sense of humour.
On yer guys
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Clearedtoenter,
It wouldn't take so long if you were happy with a couple of mistakes a day.
GA controlling has to be about the hardest job in ATC. Dealing with inexperienced pilots, differing aircraft speeds, language difficulties with foreign students,etc.
It is easier controlling the major controlled airspace. On the whole we deal with experienced pilots whose first language is English, and in the approach phase we don't have to deal with huge discrepancies in aircraft speed.
Maybe visit a GAAP tower for a visit, and experience a 'day in the life' first hand.
It wouldn't take so long if you were happy with a couple of mistakes a day.
GA controlling has to be about the hardest job in ATC. Dealing with inexperienced pilots, differing aircraft speeds, language difficulties with foreign students,etc.
It is easier controlling the major controlled airspace. On the whole we deal with experienced pilots whose first language is English, and in the approach phase we don't have to deal with huge discrepancies in aircraft speed.
Maybe visit a GAAP tower for a visit, and experience a 'day in the life' first hand.
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Thanks Max.. have visted BK Tower and can only say I'm impressed with the level of competence, qualifications and ability of the controllers. Have also visted other places in the world where they don't have such highly qualified chaps but do have high workloads working high intensity small aircraft operations - and it works at least as well as BK, (although perhaps without the same level of highly developed humour and sarcasm!) Of course, CN now with its very high levels of traffic, works without any controllers at all - at least it does until the inevitable happens.
All I'm suggesting is that if there is a staff shortage leading to the currently unsafe situations at both CN and BK, maybe its time to look at some sort of fast track training, even if it does lead to a less qualified and cheaper controller, it has to be better than what we have now. Of course lesser qualified is not really the issue is it? Cheaper? we could not possibly do this fairly simple (but intense) low end ATC operation cheaper AND safer could we? Certainly not whilst we have the current management/union monopolistic bum protecting culture in ASA anyway!
All I'm suggesting is that if there is a staff shortage leading to the currently unsafe situations at both CN and BK, maybe its time to look at some sort of fast track training, even if it does lead to a less qualified and cheaper controller, it has to be better than what we have now. Of course lesser qualified is not really the issue is it? Cheaper? we could not possibly do this fairly simple (but intense) low end ATC operation cheaper AND safer could we? Certainly not whilst we have the current management/union monopolistic bum protecting culture in ASA anyway!