CASA initial grade 3 FIR
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CASA initial grade 3 FIR
Myself and a friend are rapidly approaching our initial grage 3 flight instructors rating. CASA are now doing all the inital grade 3 ratings and I am wondering if anyone has been tested, or knows anyone who has been tested?
It is hard to get the information out of CASA themselves, on what to expect on the "big day"!!!
We have just received the bill for the flight test and we are looking at $830 each for the day plus the hire of the aircraft!!! Maybe a little bit stiff!!?? Certainly a little bit excessive for a public service!!
As you would agree, we don’t want to fail due to the price of the test and also the having to go through the stress again!!
If anyone has any tips on what to expect from CASA it would be very much appreciated!!
Cheers.
It is hard to get the information out of CASA themselves, on what to expect on the "big day"!!!
We have just received the bill for the flight test and we are looking at $830 each for the day plus the hire of the aircraft!!! Maybe a little bit stiff!!?? Certainly a little bit excessive for a public service!!
As you would agree, we don’t want to fail due to the price of the test and also the having to go through the stress again!!
If anyone has any tips on what to expect from CASA it would be very much appreciated!!
Cheers.
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Make sure you've completed the syllabus your flying school has in their ops manual, with nothing left out. If your instructor has graded anything as not to standard, make sure it is fixed and documented before the test. They are very particular about making sure the course has actually been completed. They are also looking to see some direct involvement of the CFI in your training, so at least get him/her to listen to some briefs and go for a fly with you.
CASA have said the majority of people being tested are passing, however a good deal of people are not actually attempting the test because in the eyes of the examiner, they haven't completed the course.
CASA have said the majority of people being tested are passing, however a good deal of people are not actually attempting the test because in the eyes of the examiner, they haven't completed the course.
I'm surprised that the people running your instructor course haven't told you "what to expect".
Have a look at the back of the flight test form, and know your Day VFR syllabus inside out would be a good start. Also know your legal obligations, limitations and responsibilites.
Good luck.
Have a look at the back of the flight test form, and know your Day VFR syllabus inside out would be a good start. Also know your legal obligations, limitations and responsibilites.
Good luck.
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Hahaha too true Owen!!
We are the first to do FIR at my school with CASA. Our CFI would have done the test but CASA insist on now doing it.
He is unsure on how much detail they will go into various subjects in regards to the underpinning knowledge or even just random questions.
Thanks for all your help. Any more tips would be great!!
We are the first to do FIR at my school with CASA. Our CFI would have done the test but CASA insist on now doing it.
He is unsure on how much detail they will go into various subjects in regards to the underpinning knowledge or even just random questions.
Thanks for all your help. Any more tips would be great!!
Yep......
Warm up properly about half an hour before to start...
Grabbing your ankles should be the required degree of flexibility
Warm up properly about half an hour before to start...
Grabbing your ankles should be the required degree of flexibility
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Heard of two. One didn't make it past the briefing, the other failed due to a preflight issue. Not sure what happened about their $800 fees. I wonder if CASA have reliable data to show that 'improving' the standard beyond what a few well qualified (and much cheaper) ATO's could do will improve training standards.
Certain tests, eg Initial Issue GR3 and GR1, META Approvals, will require 7 day notification instead of 1 and will either be conducted by a CASA officer, Core ATO if none are available and so on down to the regular ATOs (as far as I understand) in an effort to raise the quality of successful applicants.
Some people (rightfully so) are sick of seeing GR3 instructors who can't perform in x-winds or at AoB's greater than 45deg.
Some people (rightfully so) are sick of seeing GR3 instructors who can't perform in x-winds or at AoB's greater than 45deg.
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I just finished my GR3 rating in Melb. I had to do the flyt test with a CASA ATO. I have no complaints.
I got asked on all the IR requirements and limitations, a few questions on Aerodynamics and had to give a mass brief on S&L, and pre-flight brief on Climbing and D. The weather forcecast said expected thunderstorms, winds gusting upto 35kts, x-wind upto 20kts. I got told by the ATO that I could do my flight on some other day. I told him, I wouldn't take my student up in this weather, but I will give it a shot. The flight went well n I got through.
I am against the rule that if CASA can't find an ATO to conduct the flight test, the CFI can conduct it. I think the student should wait for a CASA ATO to conduct it.
I got asked on all the IR requirements and limitations, a few questions on Aerodynamics and had to give a mass brief on S&L, and pre-flight brief on Climbing and D. The weather forcecast said expected thunderstorms, winds gusting upto 35kts, x-wind upto 20kts. I got told by the ATO that I could do my flight on some other day. I told him, I wouldn't take my student up in this weather, but I will give it a shot. The flight went well n I got through.
I am against the rule that if CASA can't find an ATO to conduct the flight test, the CFI can conduct it. I think the student should wait for a CASA ATO to conduct it.
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I understand that CASA gives new G3s a copy of their book Flight Instructor Manual (Aeroplanes) after obtaining the rating. It contains detailed description of all the sequences to CASA standard. A copy is downloadable from CASA's website.
Follow that to the letter and they can't fault you for the air exercises at least.
Follow that to the letter and they can't fault you for the air exercises at least.
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Originally Posted by flyboy_nz
I am against the rule that if CASA can't find an ATO to conduct the flight test, the CFI can conduct it. I think the student should wait for a CASA ATO to conduct it.
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CASA Testing Tough
Now, you see, foreign students jutst want to have a "smooth" pass and thereafter, leave Australia.
The flight testing standard is going to be tougher than ever especially to those candidates tested by CASA! And is going to make students life miserable and pressursing.
The flight testing standard is going to be tougher than ever especially to those candidates tested by CASA! And is going to make students life miserable and pressursing.
Droste,
does a smooth pass mean a substandard instructor???
These people have to be able to COMPETENTLY pass on experience to a student. I have seen way too much of instructors who can't physically perform the sequence themselves. On my first job one of the other new instructors wasn't allowed to teach x-wind landings due to his lack of ability. I flew with him and he tried to take-off with the windscreen fogged over!
WHY WAS THIS PERSON GIVEN AN INSTRUCTOR RATING??????
I seem to remember Mick Toller (?) went to Fiji and said every Australian trained instructor working there required retraining in some area.
If we are to train students properly the instructor's standard must be high.
Not saying everyone need to come out with a grade 1 skill level, but you cannot give someone the rating just because they paid the money.
Are you happy with the thought your instructor mightn't be able perform what he's trying to teach???
Personally I like the rotary system. No Grade 3's and 400 hrs command time required.
does a smooth pass mean a substandard instructor???
These people have to be able to COMPETENTLY pass on experience to a student. I have seen way too much of instructors who can't physically perform the sequence themselves. On my first job one of the other new instructors wasn't allowed to teach x-wind landings due to his lack of ability. I flew with him and he tried to take-off with the windscreen fogged over!
WHY WAS THIS PERSON GIVEN AN INSTRUCTOR RATING??????
I seem to remember Mick Toller (?) went to Fiji and said every Australian trained instructor working there required retraining in some area.
If we are to train students properly the instructor's standard must be high.
Not saying everyone need to come out with a grade 1 skill level, but you cannot give someone the rating just because they paid the money.
Are you happy with the thought your instructor mightn't be able perform what he's trying to teach???
Personally I like the rotary system. No Grade 3's and 400 hrs command time required.
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Droste, the FI rating is no easy walkover. I think you need to be psychologically prepared for this. It's not a rating for accumulating hours or showing off. You really need to have a temperament to care for students. If you're a picky or apathetic type of person, you should think twice before spending money on the rating.
MakeItHappenCaptain, rotary FI ratings require 400 hrs total (not command). The rules say you can apply for the rating when you have 400 hrs total while the rating itself requires a minimum of 40 hours. Most students therefore start learning their rating at 360 hrs total.
MakeItHappenCaptain, rotary FI ratings require 400 hrs total (not command). The rules say you can apply for the rating when you have 400 hrs total while the rating itself requires a minimum of 40 hours. Most students therefore start learning their rating at 360 hrs total.
Minor point, RF rolleyes: PS 400 command would be even better anyway.
I'm not a rotary pilot but the principle being presented was that the instructor actually has some experience before they start teaching. It's hardly going to be 250 hours of dual flying in those hours now, is it?
I see many pilots who can't even interpret CAO 40.1 properly and it comes from people who teach from a textbook with no practical experience.
Perfect example: if you do two stints of duty 7-10am and 4-7pm just because you had 6 hours off in between doesn't mean you don't leave those out of the total. IT IS A 12 HOUR TOTAL.
Not saying every new Gr3 is like this, everybody has to start somewhere, but if you are purely hour building before you go airlines, find another stream of aviation. An instructor will pass 80% of what they know onto a student and if they don't top up their own knowledge base, 80% of 80% starts to mean not much is actually being taught.
In short, my advice to new instructors is keep studying!
Get some more advanced aerody books. Ask questions of senior instructors. Understand your topic and take pride in producing a higher and more importantly safer standard of student.
Back on topic, all the best for your test anyhoo!
I'm not a rotary pilot but the principle being presented was that the instructor actually has some experience before they start teaching. It's hardly going to be 250 hours of dual flying in those hours now, is it?
I see many pilots who can't even interpret CAO 40.1 properly and it comes from people who teach from a textbook with no practical experience.
Perfect example: if you do two stints of duty 7-10am and 4-7pm just because you had 6 hours off in between doesn't mean you don't leave those out of the total. IT IS A 12 HOUR TOTAL.
Not saying every new Gr3 is like this, everybody has to start somewhere, but if you are purely hour building before you go airlines, find another stream of aviation. An instructor will pass 80% of what they know onto a student and if they don't top up their own knowledge base, 80% of 80% starts to mean not much is actually being taught.
In short, my advice to new instructors is keep studying!
Get some more advanced aerody books. Ask questions of senior instructors. Understand your topic and take pride in producing a higher and more importantly safer standard of student.
Back on topic, all the best for your test anyhoo!
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"I see many pilots who can't even interpret CAO 40.1 properly and it comes from people who teach from a textbook with no practical experience.
Perfect example: if you do two stints of duty 7-10am and 4-7pm just because you had 6 hours off in between doesn't mean you don't leave those out of the total. IT IS A 12 HOUR TOTAL."
Make it happen captain. You are flaming someone for not understanding the regs regarding the flight & duty limits. You even gave them a wrong reference, flight and duty limits are CAO 48 or company ops manual if the said company has a dispensation.
Looks like someone needs to go back and relearn and restudy to understand the CAO's!
300
Perfect example: if you do two stints of duty 7-10am and 4-7pm just because you had 6 hours off in between doesn't mean you don't leave those out of the total. IT IS A 12 HOUR TOTAL."
Make it happen captain. You are flaming someone for not understanding the regs regarding the flight & duty limits. You even gave them a wrong reference, flight and duty limits are CAO 48 or company ops manual if the said company has a dispensation.
Looks like someone needs to go back and relearn and restudy to understand the CAO's!
300
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I precess this reply by saying that I do not have any fixed wing experience but as a Grade 1 Helicopter instructor I have always wondered how much value a F/W student is getting from someone who, with all due respect, possibly has minimal experience themselves, before gaining a F/W Grade 3?
I guess the Gr 3 system has been going awhile so if it was an issue it would have been addressed some time earlier.
Feedback welcome.
I guess the Gr 3 system has been going awhile so if it was an issue it would have been addressed some time earlier.
Feedback welcome.
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PS 400 command would be even better anyway.
I'm not a rotary pilot but the principle being presented was that the instructor actually has some experience before they start teaching. It's hardly going to be 250 hours of dual flying in those hours now, is it?
I'm not a rotary pilot but the principle being presented was that the instructor actually has some experience before they start teaching. It's hardly going to be 250 hours of dual flying in those hours now, is it?
Helicopters are unstable in all axes, and it's extremely easy to fatally damage a two-bladed rotor system with mis-handled controls. Without significant time on the controls, it's very possible that a new instructor would find themselves in an unrecoverable situation when they let new students fly. Add pattering into the mix, and watch things get interesting.
Conversely, most training aeroplanes are stable in all axes (up to a few degrees of roll), so the workload is quite manageable and the student's ability to kill you is fairly limited. Pattering while letting a trimmed aeroplane fly itself is not outrageously challenging.
While it is very important that instructors have skills & knowledge to pass on to students, let's be realistic about how much flight experience is needed to teach someone to fly straight & level. Bugger all.
(Yes, I am currently instructing on both)