Qantas Reduces LHR slip Time
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Qantas Reduces LHR slip Time
Qantas has now reduced LHR Slip Time to 38hrs for its Tech and Cabin Crew.
Minimum rest in this port is 36 hrs.If an inbound aircraft is late by more than two hours the crew must have this(36hrs) as a minimum.This means that the next service due to be operated by this crew will accordingly depart late.
Several years ago,in the northern winter,Qantas had 3 jumbos sitting at heathrow with no crew eligible to operate.
Having a local LHR base crew probably gets around this problem.
These new LHR patterns are now more arduous with many patterns now operating SYD/ADL/SIN and then onto LHR.
An already arduous trip has now become more so.Once the A380 starts operating SYD/LHR the trip will become incredibly physically and mentally demanding.
Sick leave and fatigue will increase exponentially.
The human body cannot cope with back to back to back trips of this nature.
Where is the duty of care?
How can crew provide an outstanding level of service when they are exhausted?
Who needs a name badge when you are just a number?
Minimum rest in this port is 36 hrs.If an inbound aircraft is late by more than two hours the crew must have this(36hrs) as a minimum.This means that the next service due to be operated by this crew will accordingly depart late.
Several years ago,in the northern winter,Qantas had 3 jumbos sitting at heathrow with no crew eligible to operate.
Having a local LHR base crew probably gets around this problem.
These new LHR patterns are now more arduous with many patterns now operating SYD/ADL/SIN and then onto LHR.
An already arduous trip has now become more so.Once the A380 starts operating SYD/LHR the trip will become incredibly physically and mentally demanding.
Sick leave and fatigue will increase exponentially.
The human body cannot cope with back to back to back trips of this nature.
Where is the duty of care?
How can crew provide an outstanding level of service when they are exhausted?
Who needs a name badge when you are just a number?
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If you don't want them back to back, don't bid for them.
They are not a junior trip and I'm sure plenty of the crew who are forced to do JoBerg back to back will take them off your hands.
They are not a junior trip and I'm sure plenty of the crew who are forced to do JoBerg back to back will take them off your hands.
Tech crew have had LHR slips around the 38/39hr mark for at least 4 years. The only requirement being that we have to operate 4 crew up and back (which rules out BKK during summer which is 3 crew).
Our min rest is much less than 36hrs up there. Around 20 from memory.
I guess with the LHR base crew operating the 31/32 once the 380 kicks off, something had to change with slip times.
Our min rest is much less than 36hrs up there. Around 20 from memory.
I guess with the LHR base crew operating the 31/32 once the 380 kicks off, something had to change with slip times.
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The agreed planning requirements for tech crew are 1 short slip per day plus a short slip for the shuttler.
The minimum slip is a combination of options but the limiting is usually flight + night. TL is spot on around 20 hours.
Once upline, the minimum requirements may be required.
The minimum slip is a combination of options but the limiting is usually flight + night. TL is spot on around 20 hours.
Once upline, the minimum requirements may be required.
So the question is, why do Tech Crew have a min rest of 20hrs and Cabin crew 36hrs? Our rules are covered by the Civil Aviation Orders, what dictates it for Cabin Crew?
Yes, the patterns shouldn't be planned to min rest, but during disruptions I don't think it's unreasonable.
Yes, the patterns shouldn't be planned to min rest, but during disruptions I don't think it's unreasonable.
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The cabin crew EBA requires the lesser of 2 local nights or 36hrs after a planned single sector TOD in excess of 14hrs.
This is reducible to the lesser of, 1 local or 18 hrs by majority vote.
This is reducible to the lesser of, 1 local or 18 hrs by majority vote.
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Twiggs..You Just dont Get It
The point is that they will become junior trips.Particularly the more arduous trips.
More junior crew will find more of these trips on their line ..back to back
A380 crew cant bid.
Do they have minimum rest requirements?
Twiggs you dont fly do you?
More junior crew will find more of these trips on their line ..back to back
A380 crew cant bid.
Do they have minimum rest requirements?
Twiggs you dont fly do you?
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Originally Posted by packrat
Once the A380 starts operating SYD/LHR the trip will become incredibly physically and mentally demanding.
Originally Posted by twiggs
The cabin crew EBA requires the lesser of 2 local nights or 36hrs after a planned single sector TOD in excess of 14hrs.
This is reducible to the lesser of, 1 local or 18 hrs by majority vote.
This is reducible to the lesser of, 1 local or 18 hrs by majority vote.
With punctuality in the region of 90% this looks like normal risk management. Some late arrivals will result in crew rest delayed departures - but not often.
If all of Northern Europe is clagged, that has been the case forever and the passengers understand.
I think packrat has over reacted to a minor change.
In my younger days I was told by a Senior QF Management pilot that optimum crew rest was 12 or 36 hours depending on preceding slips, because going to bed, getting up fresh and flying beat the heck out of resting for 12 and then wasting 12 hours waiting for the next flight 24 hour after the first. So 36 hours makes sense to me as a planning criterion.
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QCCA vs LHR Base
Why have a LHR base when you have QCCA?
QCCA are on the same Ts and Cs as the LHR base.
The administation costs in LHR are a duplication....
Rent,Admin staff wages and all the other ancilliary costs associated with the base.
If the LHR base was closed you would save these costs and still have the same crew cost.
Anyway just a thought
Some of those new LHR patterns are arduos though
QCCA are on the same Ts and Cs as the LHR base.
The administation costs in LHR are a duplication....
Rent,Admin staff wages and all the other ancilliary costs associated with the base.
If the LHR base was closed you would save these costs and still have the same crew cost.
Anyway just a thought
Some of those new LHR patterns are arduos though
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It looks like yet another straw has just been placed on the camel's back...
For the pilots reading this you have to understand the basic difference between the job satisfaction of pilots and cabin crew..
Pilots like to fly (preferably during the day) their aircraft,get their hours done and get home...
Cabin crew do not fly for the satisfaction of walking around an aluminium tube for 14 hours or so being hounded by passengers...
International Cabin Crew join or want to fly because of the lifestyle.That means travelling and seeing the world...
With the start of the LHR base there was an agreement that Australian based crew would still get one LHR trip per day leaving Australia.This meant that we could still get to LHR and do whatever you wanted to do.
That meant you could visit relatives,sightsee,shop....whatever.Now since the opening of the base, Australian based cabin crew have had this reduced again and again and now it's down to 38 hours...
It seems as though it does not matter how many things you give the company in terms of efficiency they will always want more...
For the pilots reading this you have to understand the basic difference between the job satisfaction of pilots and cabin crew..
Pilots like to fly (preferably during the day) their aircraft,get their hours done and get home...
Cabin crew do not fly for the satisfaction of walking around an aluminium tube for 14 hours or so being hounded by passengers...
International Cabin Crew join or want to fly because of the lifestyle.That means travelling and seeing the world...
With the start of the LHR base there was an agreement that Australian based crew would still get one LHR trip per day leaving Australia.This meant that we could still get to LHR and do whatever you wanted to do.
That meant you could visit relatives,sightsee,shop....whatever.Now since the opening of the base, Australian based cabin crew have had this reduced again and again and now it's down to 38 hours...
It seems as though it does not matter how many things you give the company in terms of efficiency they will always want more...
lowerlobe,
What you say, in theory, sounds correct, but I am astounded at the number of cabin crew who admit to spending entire slips in places like LHR, FRA and LAX in their room or venturing out only for a quick trip to the supermarket.
I would say that on the whole, tech crew are far more likely to be out having a beer, seeing the sights, enjoying good food etc.
Allowances form a much larger proportion of cabin crew pay and are therefore much more inclined to save it!!!
What you say, in theory, sounds correct, but I am astounded at the number of cabin crew who admit to spending entire slips in places like LHR, FRA and LAX in their room or venturing out only for a quick trip to the supermarket.
I would say that on the whole, tech crew are far more likely to be out having a beer, seeing the sights, enjoying good food etc.
Allowances form a much larger proportion of cabin crew pay and are therefore much more inclined to save it!!!
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Transition Layer...That may be the case today and especially with crew these days on less pay such as QCCA and BKK,AKL,LHR crew on much lower pay than original Australian based crew...
When I was flying we would do trips,hire cars etc....and it was a lifestyle more than a job.
Sitting in a room was not something we would do unless you were crook.In fact you almost needed a doctors certificate if you did not turn up for crew drinks....
I lost track of the number of times we would get back to the pub literally an hour or two before call...
Then again I also remember when it was tradition that the crew member on their first trip to the US would buy the rest of the crew a slab of beer.Then the suspects in the mushroom factory started telling crew that was wrong so it ended....
When I was flying we would do trips,hire cars etc....and it was a lifestyle more than a job.
Sitting in a room was not something we would do unless you were crook.In fact you almost needed a doctors certificate if you did not turn up for crew drinks....
I lost track of the number of times we would get back to the pub literally an hour or two before call...
Then again I also remember when it was tradition that the crew member on their first trip to the US would buy the rest of the crew a slab of beer.Then the suspects in the mushroom factory started telling crew that was wrong so it ended....
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Cabin crew do not fly for the satisfaction of walking around an aluminium tube for 14 hours or so being hounded by passengers...
So, being long haul cabin crew is purely a means to get you to a slip port.No wonder QF's on the nose with punters if that's the general attitude!
See youse! TDI
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see the job as a free ticket to their next shopping location
funbags and Co,I said lifestyle..... not shopping and seeing how you either cannot comprehend others posts or try to selectively twist words then a career in journalism could be for you.....
However,getting back to your post funbags...did you apply for a job as a pilot because you liked the idea of endless hours in sim sessions?....Or is there more to being a pilot than training in a simulator?
Funbags....I know this might be difficult for you to understand but there are a number of reasons people choose a career and lifestyle is one of them but it's nice to know that tech crew do not shop when they are overseas.....
Personally funbags,I did enjoy meeting people and that includes tech crew when I was flying and I'm glad that you do your job 100% for the benefit of the company and not for even the slightest enjoyment that you might otherwise derive....
Getting back to the thread it's obvious that the company as usual is doing their best to take away any enjoyment crew have in their job so that they stay for as little length of time as possible.
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Not even close speedbird.
We see flying as a career. Most of us have wanted to fly since we were little kids. Alot of us have spent tens of thousands getting a license so we can have that career. We have to do an annual medical to keep said license, and we like to have a few drinks at the other end. One "alcoholic binge" (as you put it) too many, and we could lose our job. But of course we like to have the odd big night. In fact it was lowerlobe who said that it was a crime for a cabin crew member not to turn up for crew drinks in the GOD's!
Remember, it was one of your own (lowerlobe) who said that cabin crew fly for a lifestyle. We fly aeroplanes because we love it, and for me, I want to be at home with the family more. Shorter slips (within reason), for me, are great. I couldn't give a toss about the allowances, I spend them anyway, usually on presents for the kids. That's why I agree with lowerlobes comment "Pilots like to fly (preferably during the day) their aircraft,get their hours done and get home...:
You might want to take up your opinions with lowerlobe. He apparently doesn't like the aeroplane bit of a flying career (because the passengers hound him). Cabin crew apparently are there for the lifestyle, and the crew drinks, and the sightseeing bit! I hope the passengers don't get in the way too much!
PS lowerlobe, I just caught your post. I learnt to fly because I like flying aeroplanes. I actually like going to work and the other stuff (crew drinks, travel, shopping etc) are a bonus, and not why I work for Qantas. Enjoy your retirement, realise times have changed, slips will get shorter and things aren't like they were 30 years ago.
We see flying as a career. Most of us have wanted to fly since we were little kids. Alot of us have spent tens of thousands getting a license so we can have that career. We have to do an annual medical to keep said license, and we like to have a few drinks at the other end. One "alcoholic binge" (as you put it) too many, and we could lose our job. But of course we like to have the odd big night. In fact it was lowerlobe who said that it was a crime for a cabin crew member not to turn up for crew drinks in the GOD's!
Remember, it was one of your own (lowerlobe) who said that cabin crew fly for a lifestyle. We fly aeroplanes because we love it, and for me, I want to be at home with the family more. Shorter slips (within reason), for me, are great. I couldn't give a toss about the allowances, I spend them anyway, usually on presents for the kids. That's why I agree with lowerlobes comment "Pilots like to fly (preferably during the day) their aircraft,get their hours done and get home...:
You might want to take up your opinions with lowerlobe. He apparently doesn't like the aeroplane bit of a flying career (because the passengers hound him). Cabin crew apparently are there for the lifestyle, and the crew drinks, and the sightseeing bit! I hope the passengers don't get in the way too much!
PS lowerlobe, I just caught your post. I learnt to fly because I like flying aeroplanes. I actually like going to work and the other stuff (crew drinks, travel, shopping etc) are a bonus, and not why I work for Qantas. Enjoy your retirement, realise times have changed, slips will get shorter and things aren't like they were 30 years ago.
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I couldn't give a toss about the allowances,
Now that's funny because one the more interesting and heated things I have read on Qrewroom was the thread about cabin crew getting more allowances than tech crew at times.....apparently not all your colleagues feel the same as you....
By the way,talking about meal allowances.What is the definition of a tech crew dinner in Narita....
A dozen or more beers and 6 Gyoza's.....
One "alcoholic binge" (as you put it) too many, and we could lose our job.
Speedbird....It looks like you hit a sore nerve with your comment ....So let's get off the anti cabin crew comments funbags and back to the thread about the slip being reduced in LHR.....
What's next....let's see,how about re-scheduling departure times by 5 minutes so that crew miss out on a dinner allowance...Hang on they've already done that....