Beating the Rex Bond
Very true UTR. A phyrric, and immoral, victory
BTW - have you got very long arms? I thought you'd be two orders of magnitude closer to your keyboard than you have listed.
BTW - have you got very long arms? I thought you'd be two orders of magnitude closer to your keyboard than you have listed.
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I believe that the AFAP picked up the tab on this one. I also have it on good authority that the case is NOT over, and REX are spending big $$$$ chasing the $7500, because they, like other airlines, do NOT want a precedent to be set.
When you live....
Stallie - you're the first in 4 years to notice (including me - if memory serves I was pissed when dreaming that up)! You must be even more bored than I am reading legal cases!
UTR.
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UTR.
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Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
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Very true UTR. A phyrric, and immoral, victory
Bottums Up
It is my understanding that if binding is covered by one's AWA/EBA, then it's enforceable. If bonding does not appear in said documents, but is a side contract, then its enforceability is more doubtful.
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the bond at this time was not in the rex eba but added later....
so clarke had every right to contest it......and won...
rex would have spent a packet on the QC and others (100k+) seeing on how long it went for....
suck ****e i say.....
maybe if they paid their f/o's / pilots what their worth, they would not have this problem in the first place!!
so clarke had every right to contest it......and won...
rex would have spent a packet on the QC and others (100k+) seeing on how long it went for....
suck ****e i say.....
maybe if they paid their f/o's / pilots what their worth, they would not have this problem in the first place!!
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And of course, the last paragraph in the EBA states "both parties agree that NO further claims will be entered into during the course of this EBA".... or words to that effect.
REX adding this to Mr Clarkes terms of employment constitutes a breach of EBA, therefore I wouldn't think that in this case, the extra clause would be enforceable at all.
The fact that it has SINCE been added to, and approved in the EBA makes it a tad harder.... but NOT impossible.
REX adding this to Mr Clarkes terms of employment constitutes a breach of EBA, therefore I wouldn't think that in this case, the extra clause would be enforceable at all.
The fact that it has SINCE been added to, and approved in the EBA makes it a tad harder.... but NOT impossible.
'who_cares' too true about the jet rating costs but I think when one gets to that level of flying that's it, there is not further to go other than perhaps a sideways shift & a couple of years bonding (if that's the case) goes quickly when you believe yr at the end of the line. At the regional level these days it appears to not be a life long career move for most hence if you can get out of the bond legally & move on as in this particular case then some will try.
Mr Clarke won in the eyes of the law, but as we all know sh1t sticks in the aviation business big time & it's like being on an Island, there's nowhere to hide.
WMk2
Mr Clarke won in the eyes of the law, but as we all know sh1t sticks in the aviation business big time & it's like being on an Island, there's nowhere to hide.
WMk2
When breaking a bond, some things you MUST do, for your own future's sake. Give the required notice. On or before final day, go into the boss's office with a cheque for the outstanding amount on the bond. Tell him you will exchange it for a clearance letter which clearly states that you are leaving of your own accord and have discharged the bond. Make sure your final paycheque is in the bank, with any accrued leave paid out, before clearing the cheque.
That way, you have ammunition if they later bag you with a poor reference. If you can prove that one, you could sue if any untrue statement had been made. It is also something to take to interview for when any future employer raises doubts about your integrity because of your short period of service after taking the type endorsement training (if they know their stuff they work all this out from your logbook).
But as others have said here and before - if you do a runner you screw those who would follow you. It happened so often in the past and that is why employers now bond. IMHO this is preferable to making the pilot pay up front for the training, but if we as a breed make a practice of snivelling on bonds every operator will require pre-paid training in future.
That way, you have ammunition if they later bag you with a poor reference. If you can prove that one, you could sue if any untrue statement had been made. It is also something to take to interview for when any future employer raises doubts about your integrity because of your short period of service after taking the type endorsement training (if they know their stuff they work all this out from your logbook).
But as others have said here and before - if you do a runner you screw those who would follow you. It happened so often in the past and that is why employers now bond. IMHO this is preferable to making the pilot pay up front for the training, but if we as a breed make a practice of snivelling on bonds every operator will require pre-paid training in future.
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"We're not going to pay you more, because you're all just going to go anyway".
Bonds
State Industrial laws have more protection for workers when a company has a training wage and a bond. It is plain rude and unfair to have an EBA/ Agreement which agrees to this. 
Certainly something that a good industrial lawyer points out when knocking up these agreements. It's one or the other, NOT both.
Usually the company walks away, as it is a waste of time and money for both parties. REX, will no doubt have an influx of experienced operators lining up at their doors, to be treated like a fool and paid chickens' feed, with all the good press they get for treating their workers soo well.
All the best beating them.
Certainly something that a good industrial lawyer points out when knocking up these agreements. It's one or the other, NOT both.Usually the company walks away, as it is a waste of time and money for both parties. REX, will no doubt have an influx of experienced operators lining up at their doors, to be treated like a fool and paid chickens' feed, with all the good press they get for treating their workers soo well.
All the best beating them.
I know little of REX other than what I glean here. However my impression is that if you jump bond they will hunt you down whatever the legal cost to themselves. In the greater scheme of an aviation business 100 grand or even double that for lawyers and court appearances is nothing. They are fully aware that the 'law' has financially broken more than one individual trying to defend a position - whether morally right or not - and WILL call your bluff. To do anything less would be loss of face. Ask anyone who ever tried to duck out on Singapore Airlines what happens to bond-breakers.
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This isn't entirely on topic, but why would anyone in their right mind pack up and move to sydney, to a job that you are bonded to, for 40k per year.
What is the average rent for a house/unit near YSSY? Add in possible loan repayments for your training and you end up eating the same 2 minute noodles that you were eating while bashing around the bush in a C206. No wonder he didn't pay back the bond, he would have been struggling enough just to buy groceries.
Is this what I have to endure when I finally have enough hours up to throw some resume's out there?. I am much better off in my current job, it is easy, I get paid 45k+ plus incentives and do not have to pay for internet/phones, let alone the privilege of getting my job in the first place.
I don't care about earning big bucks, I would be satisfied being able to tell my boss to "stick it, I'm going to fly aeroplanes" - But you have to be able to afford to live.
Apologies for ranting, but I have mates that left school at 16, did a trade and now own houses/BMW's/their own business. They got paid while doing thier training and love their jobs. I am still working in retail 4 years after finishing year 12 and all the money I get goes towards paying for flying training. After I finish training and get a job for a couple of years to get my hours up, I may be able to apply for a job at REX or the like and then proceed to get paid about the same as my mates were when they were 18. They will be 10 years in front of me.
Off to watch the cricket now before the men in white suits come to take me away.....
povopilot
What is the average rent for a house/unit near YSSY? Add in possible loan repayments for your training and you end up eating the same 2 minute noodles that you were eating while bashing around the bush in a C206. No wonder he didn't pay back the bond, he would have been struggling enough just to buy groceries.
Is this what I have to endure when I finally have enough hours up to throw some resume's out there?. I am much better off in my current job, it is easy, I get paid 45k+ plus incentives and do not have to pay for internet/phones, let alone the privilege of getting my job in the first place.
I don't care about earning big bucks, I would be satisfied being able to tell my boss to "stick it, I'm going to fly aeroplanes" - But you have to be able to afford to live.
Apologies for ranting, but I have mates that left school at 16, did a trade and now own houses/BMW's/their own business. They got paid while doing thier training and love their jobs. I am still working in retail 4 years after finishing year 12 and all the money I get goes towards paying for flying training. After I finish training and get a job for a couple of years to get my hours up, I may be able to apply for a job at REX or the like and then proceed to get paid about the same as my mates were when they were 18. They will be 10 years in front of me.
Off to watch the cricket now before the men in white suits come to take me away.....
povopilot
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I am still working in retail 4 years after finishing year 12 and all the money I get goes towards paying for flying training. After I finish training and get a job for a couple of years to get my hours up, I may be able to apply for a job at REX or the like and then proceed to get paid about the same as my mates were when they were 18. They will be 10 years in front of me.
wait til the bank sends you a letter "we are very dissapointed you have not kept your promise....) 
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Lester you’ve hit the nail on the head.
Whatever failings people may think the Rex recruitment process may have, one thing you couldn’t fault is the amount of detail provided re bond, pay, basings etc. All this info is provided before you have even been accepted. During my interview they spent 5-10min going through the EBA pay scale and the details of how the bond worked.
Penny, you signed your name on the dotted line, deal with it and don’t crap in the nest of those that follow.
As for cost of living in Sydney (which seems to get a run here regularly), there is no requirement to live there. When I joined, a Sydney base required some level of seniority, i.e. everyone that was in SY had chosen to move there. From my observations, the Sydney crews were generally the unhappiest, so much so that I ended up refusing to pax there and fill in when they were short of crew. Once again, you signed your name on the transfer request form, deal with the reality.
Whatever failings people may think the Rex recruitment process may have, one thing you couldn’t fault is the amount of detail provided re bond, pay, basings etc. All this info is provided before you have even been accepted. During my interview they spent 5-10min going through the EBA pay scale and the details of how the bond worked.
Penny, you signed your name on the dotted line, deal with it and don’t crap in the nest of those that follow.
As for cost of living in Sydney (which seems to get a run here regularly), there is no requirement to live there. When I joined, a Sydney base required some level of seniority, i.e. everyone that was in SY had chosen to move there. From my observations, the Sydney crews were generally the unhappiest, so much so that I ended up refusing to pax there and fill in when they were short of crew. Once again, you signed your name on the transfer request form, deal with the reality.
Beating the bond
As others have said, beating Rex (or any other employer) in exiting from your legally (or perhaps just ehically) binding contract is neither "clever" nor ethical.
Rex remained unique amongst the established players over the last 5 years, during which "pay to play" became industry standard. They did not follow Impulse, Jetstar or Virgin to that very low ebb.
Like QF mainline, Rex not only PAYS FOR your training but PAYS YOU to do it. It's a good deal.
EVEN QANTAS MAINLINE BONDS PILOTS.
As Dave Incognito pointed out, you knew the bargain when you went in... don't try to weasil out of it now.
When I grew up, a gentleman's word was his bond. Seems that honour is only measured in $50 notes these days
Rex remained unique amongst the established players over the last 5 years, during which "pay to play" became industry standard. They did not follow Impulse, Jetstar or Virgin to that very low ebb.
Like QF mainline, Rex not only PAYS FOR your training but PAYS YOU to do it. It's a good deal.
EVEN QANTAS MAINLINE BONDS PILOTS.
As Dave Incognito pointed out, you knew the bargain when you went in... don't try to weasil out of it now.
When I grew up, a gentleman's word was his bond. Seems that honour is only measured in $50 notes these days
Last edited by Horatio Leafblower; 18th Dec 2008 at 03:26.