Merged: Willy ATCO's get 4 weeks holiday, meanwhile CAGRO At Newcastle saves the day!
No they are not. Haven't you checked lately the full cost of a uniformed member? Why do you think DMO hire "Professional Service Providers" such as Engineers at a rate of $220,000+ . (That's what they pay the companies providing the individual).
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Tell me the last move at YWLM related to an Operation in the last 50 years,
ASA are far more flexible and willing to provide a service at short notice for non-scheduled moves. They'll just bill you for it.
However ASA have been more flexible than the RAAF.
move the guys to other bases so that they can man for operational moves such as those performed by the AP-3C's.
(sometimes you have to accept higher risk in ADF [obviously])) for operational purposes
(Mind you - as if they'd let you interrupt their Friday 3pm BBQ and drinks).
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Elperro,
Clearly no one will ever change your mind. Like I said mate, I'm not the boss, I do as I'm told and for the record I don't work at Wlm anymore.
Which unit has been fully manned, with controllers with all ratings, during the last 15 yrs ? None that I have worked at. A new kid of course with SMC and ACD ratings doesn't help the manning out that much.
You also need to dig a bit deeper on the cost issue. A RAAF Fltlt ATC costs $142K pa with super, med, dental and housing. APS controller is $93K and an FPC Asa controller in SYD is $145K plus super and any overtime AD's etc.
Go and research the bid AsA put in for Ric, it was $5 million PA. AsA charge for the service provided not just the individual wages. Go have a look at the contract for Pea, its on the 44wg site. The cost alone is just to use the Asa machine and their building.
It was actually last week, Tue actually, when two of us stayed back after FLIP hours for 3hrs to support a C17 Move. Ring Ausfic if you need to check the Notams. By the way the two staff were APS. We also stayed after hours to vector an arrival for ILS in **** weather the previous Fri.
Anyway I'm on leave and not about to waste anymore time. I'm going fishing, if you want to discuss anything next year, PM me and I'll provide you with my work e-mail and number. Happy to talk about any of the above. Believe it or not, some of us would actually like to improve things.
Merry X-mas.
Clearly no one will ever change your mind. Like I said mate, I'm not the boss, I do as I'm told and for the record I don't work at Wlm anymore.
Why would other FEGs support you when you consistently provide no service. Including when you were fully manned.
You also need to dig a bit deeper on the cost issue. A RAAF Fltlt ATC costs $142K pa with super, med, dental and housing. APS controller is $93K and an FPC Asa controller in SYD is $145K plus super and any overtime AD's etc.
Go and research the bid AsA put in for Ric, it was $5 million PA. AsA charge for the service provided not just the individual wages. Go have a look at the contract for Pea, its on the 44wg site. The cost alone is just to use the Asa machine and their building.
As I asked: When was the last time you specifically change the FLIP hours for an operational move? You accommodate the operational move when it fits in with the local training flights.
Anyway I'm on leave and not about to waste anymore time. I'm going fishing, if you want to discuss anything next year, PM me and I'll provide you with my work e-mail and number. Happy to talk about any of the above. Believe it or not, some of us would actually like to improve things.
Merry X-mas.
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A RAAF Fltlt ATC costs $142K pa with super, med, dental and housing.
It was actually last week, Tue actually, when two of us stayed back after FLIP hours for 3hrs to support a C17 Move
Originally Posted by GunDog
2 years spent flying there and not once did i knock off before 4 on a friday. Pull your head in.
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Dick - fancy ruining anyone else's Christmas??
Air traffic controllers clear Santa for landing
Posted 5 hours 19 minutes ago
ABC news reports.....
Air Services Australia says it is making preparations for a special flight into Australian air space tonight.
Spokesman Rob Walker says they are expecting Santa late tonight, and staff are ready to track him on radar.
"He's actually going to head down the international dateline before making a big right hand turn and heading across the Pacific towards Australia," he said.
"We're expecting him to make landfall in Australia somewhere after midnight.
"He's not been too precise at this stage obviously letting us know that he needs to keep a little bit of magic and secrecy about what he's doing."
Go on Dick - get on Sunrise and raise doubts over his documentation or something!!!
Posted 5 hours 19 minutes ago
ABC news reports.....
Air Services Australia says it is making preparations for a special flight into Australian air space tonight.
Spokesman Rob Walker says they are expecting Santa late tonight, and staff are ready to track him on radar.
"He's actually going to head down the international dateline before making a big right hand turn and heading across the Pacific towards Australia," he said.
"We're expecting him to make landfall in Australia somewhere after midnight.
"He's not been too precise at this stage obviously letting us know that he needs to keep a little bit of magic and secrecy about what he's doing."
Go on Dick - get on Sunrise and raise doubts over his documentation or something!!!
Thread Starter
AH Ruby,
The person you speak 'ill' of doesn't really mean 'ill' to the Industry...his heart is actually in the 'best' place.
It is just that it is not actually in the RIGHT place. He just doesn't really comprehend the 'subtleness' of the situation(s). (IMHO...)
In time,... ALL will be revealed..........
(An OLD 'Retired' FSO...)
The person you speak 'ill' of doesn't really mean 'ill' to the Industry...his heart is actually in the 'best' place.
It is just that it is not actually in the RIGHT place. He just doesn't really comprehend the 'subtleness' of the situation(s). (IMHO...)
In time,... ALL will be revealed..........
(An OLD 'Retired' FSO...)
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ElPerro, where did you get scrubbed mate? 76 or OCU?
GF5 at BFTS.
Apparently my debriefs were not long enough.
Good news, nothing in the papers about incidents at WLM. Then again, why would there be? Any operators had the pleasure of flying thru the airspace give us a heads up on how it is running?
To the guys and girls manning the radio up there
Thanks from the ungrateful for your forced duty.
To the guys and girls manning the radio up there
Thanks from the ungrateful for your forced duty.
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Back at work
All very quiet with this thread. 
Now that Willy ATC are back at work, were there any dramas during the stand down whilst Cagrs was provided?
How about Willy controllers? How did it all go?
Anybody else out there, RPT or GA pilots?
I wonder if this will happen again come December 09 ?
Now that Willy ATC are back at work, were there any dramas during the stand down whilst Cagrs was provided?
How about Willy controllers? How did it all go?
Anybody else out there, RPT or GA pilots?
I wonder if this will happen again come December 09 ?
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Personally i think the CAGRO service was fantastic.
The guys really knew what they were doing. They were clear, precice and relaxed.
They didn't give you traffic you had already talked to, and only offered advice if necessary.
Runway lights were activated for you and given wind check on final.
No ATC delays, and no idiots trying to kill you!
Cancel the ATC and make the CAGRO perminent I say.
The guys really knew what they were doing. They were clear, precice and relaxed.
They didn't give you traffic you had already talked to, and only offered advice if necessary.
Runway lights were activated for you and given wind check on final.
No ATC delays, and no idiots trying to kill you!
Cancel the ATC and make the CAGRO perminent I say.
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CASA Post Event Report
CASA has just released its Post Event Review on the CAGRS services provided by the RAAF at Willy (Go to: Office of Airspace Regulation)
Considering that Dick Smith made such a big issue of the fact that radar information would be available to supplement the CAGRS provided by the RAAF controllers whereas it would not be available if NAL provided the CAGRS, it is interesting to note the following comment from CASA:
and the other part I like:
Gee, why would you need a radar for that when you consider Broome and Ayers Rock are safety handling many more aircraft per hour on frequency than that?
All of this points to the fact that the move to have the RAAF continue to provide CAGRS was a typical knee jerk reaction from Dick Smith with little regard or respect for the background work done previously by CASA, the RAAF or NAL to ensure CAGRS could be provided safely by NAL's provider - with stakeholder agreement (Yes, Dick stakeholders were consulted). I'm sure the RAAF controllers (and their families) who had their leave cancelled at the last minute would be very thankful for your well considered intervention, Dick, particularly as your ill considered intervention was much ado about nothing.
Considering that Dick Smith made such a big issue of the fact that radar information would be available to supplement the CAGRS provided by the RAAF controllers whereas it would not be available if NAL provided the CAGRS, it is interesting to note the following comment from CASA:
The fact that the Defence CA/GRS operated without a radar display for a quarter of the POS, without any increase in safety incidents or other impacts, indicate that a NAL CA/GRS would have been equally acceptable as a solution over the POS
Reports from the CA/GRS operators indicated that there were seldom more than three aircraft on frequency at any one time
All of this points to the fact that the move to have the RAAF continue to provide CAGRS was a typical knee jerk reaction from Dick Smith with little regard or respect for the background work done previously by CASA, the RAAF or NAL to ensure CAGRS could be provided safely by NAL's provider - with stakeholder agreement (Yes, Dick stakeholders were consulted). I'm sure the RAAF controllers (and their families) who had their leave cancelled at the last minute would be very thankful for your well considered intervention, Dick, particularly as your ill considered intervention was much ado about nothing.
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More likely not displaying any evidence of self analysis/critique or prospect of improvement.
ElPerro, it was a hurdle for all of us. The best advice I was given was to sit tight and learn something, and only speak about things you know about (as opposed to confirming the opposite).
Some people don't understand sarcasm do they..
Always funny.. question the status quo and you must have been scrubbed.
