Where have all the jobs gone?
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Ralph I understand where you're coming from re Gen Y.
They think the world owes them a job these days.
Young Flo has got a bit of attitude as well, no doubt he could'nt hack the cattle station gig....aahh well there's always stacking shelves at woollies.
They think the world owes them a job these days.
Young Flo has got a bit of attitude as well, no doubt he could'nt hack the cattle station gig....aahh well there's always stacking shelves at woollies.
Ralph,
Dem's is wise words, I completely agree and I am Gen Y.
However.....
There are those of us in Gen Y who are whinging, whining little rats like Florider, who believe the whole words owes them everything now, even if they haven't done the work to earn it. I want want want....
And then there are those of us in Gen Y who marvel at the words of those before us, and much wiser, who worked for their careers, had fun and have earnt what they now have. We then go out and try and do the same, get some life experience, and do the hard yards. After all, you only live once, why not try and make it a unique experience. Rather than doing the same thing everyone else does.
I like to think I fit into the latter of the two. I went north, did some 18 months in the Territory flying around in singles, loving the work, and then a further 12+ months in QLD flying twins. Even that time was relatively short compared to what our elders have done. I thought I was extremely lucky to be flying a twin with just under 1,200hrs, and even more lucky to be flying a turbine with just over 2,000hrs!
Florider, suggest you either go back to NZ, or take on the great advice from people like Ralph. They're not in the positions they are in now, because they've simply winged it the whole way and not had any advice themselves.
And I am with the times. However, I don't demand, I don't want want want right now, and I'm willing to earn the respect of those above me in the industry. That will get me further than just the hours in the book.
Rant over
morno
Dem's is wise words, I completely agree and I am Gen Y.
However.....
There are those of us in Gen Y who are whinging, whining little rats like Florider, who believe the whole words owes them everything now, even if they haven't done the work to earn it. I want want want....
And then there are those of us in Gen Y who marvel at the words of those before us, and much wiser, who worked for their careers, had fun and have earnt what they now have. We then go out and try and do the same, get some life experience, and do the hard yards. After all, you only live once, why not try and make it a unique experience. Rather than doing the same thing everyone else does.
I like to think I fit into the latter of the two. I went north, did some 18 months in the Territory flying around in singles, loving the work, and then a further 12+ months in QLD flying twins. Even that time was relatively short compared to what our elders have done. I thought I was extremely lucky to be flying a twin with just under 1,200hrs, and even more lucky to be flying a turbine with just over 2,000hrs!
Florider, suggest you either go back to NZ, or take on the great advice from people like Ralph. They're not in the positions they are in now, because they've simply winged it the whole way and not had any advice themselves.
And I am with the times. However, I don't demand, I don't want want want right now, and I'm willing to earn the respect of those above me in the industry. That will get me further than just the hours in the book.
Rant over
morno
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First of all, thanks to those of you who have had constructive things to say. I will most definately take it on board.
Second of all, I left the bush because I had to attend to a deteriorating family situation back home. It wasn't my intent to leave so soon. I am in no way whinging about anything but people who make false assumptions about who I am (rather rudely I might add).
The general response from companies has been to try again feb/march time whe they hire! thanks again.
Second of all, I left the bush because I had to attend to a deteriorating family situation back home. It wasn't my intent to leave so soon. I am in no way whinging about anything but people who make false assumptions about who I am (rather rudely I might add).
The general response from companies has been to try again feb/march time whe they hire! thanks again.
The general response from companies has been to try again feb/march time whe they hire!
It might mean you'll have to stack the shelves at Woolies or work in a bar for a while, but you'll be there and ready to go when they need someone.
Silly Old Git
And remember not to use a red pen for written comments on a check
Ashley may need counselling.
Ashley may need counselling.
When i saw that on the idiot box last night i cacked myself silly!
The youth of today have become as soft as Nannas scones
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Valid points Ralph,
I did like the Gen Y comment (as in, why haven’t I got my command yet) classic!
but let’s not generalise too much hey, were not all like that Corey tosser!
I did like the Gen Y comment (as in, why haven’t I got my command yet) classic!
but let’s not generalise too much hey, were not all like that Corey tosser!
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Maybe the challenge for Baby Boomers is to find ways of dealing with a generation that seems to expect everything on a plate and has no patience.
Throwing tantrums has been the means by which they have got where they are. And us baby boomers had a hand in that. Loved your "crotchety old c$%^& " Ralph. Was regarded as one, but hope they learned some think. 
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Would like to take a moment to thank the always present Pprune grumpy old farts who posted the last few posts. You added nothing! Feel good to get that off your chests though?
Flo, 20yrs old with 400 hours! Sounds like a good situation to be in! My suggestion, like many others, would be fly up to Broome/Kunnas in Jan, see the operators, base yourself there. Would be surprised if you didn't have a flying gig within months. Plenty of good backpacker accom or similarly placed pilots wanting to rent together. Also many a pub, coles etc to earn cash while waiting. A car would help, but can get a car/scooter up there.
Feel free to PM me for more details of operators up there if youre interested. And do your best to ignore the grumpy old pilot attitide. They'll be gone soon enough.
Flo, 20yrs old with 400 hours! Sounds like a good situation to be in! My suggestion, like many others, would be fly up to Broome/Kunnas in Jan, see the operators, base yourself there. Would be surprised if you didn't have a flying gig within months. Plenty of good backpacker accom or similarly placed pilots wanting to rent together. Also many a pub, coles etc to earn cash while waiting. A car would help, but can get a car/scooter up there.
Feel free to PM me for more details of operators up there if youre interested. And do your best to ignore the grumpy old pilot attitide. They'll be gone soon enough.
Florider,
Some hard advice. Clam up and get on with flying. 440hrs is almost zero experiance in the big world.
It also amazes me some of the attitudes that gen Y have, particulaly junior grade3's. Arguing the point and rying to boss grade1's around. In my day it was yes sir, no sir. First job after flight school in a big city and on salary, that sort of stuff wasnt around when I finished my CPL. The young sprogs just dont know about hard times.
Some hard advice. Clam up and get on with flying. 440hrs is almost zero experiance in the big world.
It also amazes me some of the attitudes that gen Y have, particulaly junior grade3's. Arguing the point and rying to boss grade1's around. In my day it was yes sir, no sir. First job after flight school in a big city and on salary, that sort of stuff wasnt around when I finished my CPL. The young sprogs just dont know about hard times.
"crotchety old c$%^& " are the exact people I have learnt the most from and now I am probably one too.
I had one of these old timers that had his "golden rules"
No questions before 8am
Limit of 4 questions per hour
No questions between 12 & 2 pm
No questions after 8pm
Live by the rules and life was sweet, his attitude was watch and learn, which we did and gradually the need for questions faded.
He was one of the best guys to learn from and now when I pushing a burner around in the soup with a mel laundry list I can see him grinning at me and shades of Gann "lighting the matches in front of your face on approach".
"crotchety old c$%^& " indeed but his input has helped me get to where I am today and made me a better person & pilot.
Toughen the F#$% up Gen Y, you appear to have very little appreciation of those that tired to make life better for you as a whole.
Respect and learn and the doors will open for you in ways that you may never have thought possible because its these "crotchety old c$%^& " that for the time being do actually control your career destiny no matter how much you may disagree.
The toes you piss on today may belong to the arse you have to kiss tomorrow.
I had one of these old timers that had his "golden rules"
No questions before 8am
Limit of 4 questions per hour
No questions between 12 & 2 pm
No questions after 8pm
Live by the rules and life was sweet, his attitude was watch and learn, which we did and gradually the need for questions faded.
He was one of the best guys to learn from and now when I pushing a burner around in the soup with a mel laundry list I can see him grinning at me and shades of Gann "lighting the matches in front of your face on approach".
"crotchety old c$%^& " indeed but his input has helped me get to where I am today and made me a better person & pilot.
Toughen the F#$% up Gen Y, you appear to have very little appreciation of those that tired to make life better for you as a whole.
Respect and learn and the doors will open for you in ways that you may never have thought possible because its these "crotchety old c$%^& " that for the time being do actually control your career destiny no matter how much you may disagree.
The toes you piss on today may belong to the arse you have to kiss tomorrow.
You know all youse guys are sooooo right. Us Gen Y's have NEVER had it hard, none of us have ever been paid a pittence or been treated like cr@p.
My first job my boss hired me straight out of flying school to fly his C208 and asked if I thought I could handle a King Air command with just 500 hours!! I told him that I'm a Gen Y and if he wanted to keep me he'd have to do better than that.
So really sucks to be you guys cos I've had an awesome career, never had to wash planes or fly those ****ty piston twins!! I've also told my new boss unless I get the GV command within 3 months I'll go elsewhere.
Do you older guys really think that ALL guys/girls my age and younger are complete f*ckwits? Come on, please I beg of you, have some common sense, or don't and continue to carry on with your stereotypical bullsh1t.
j3
My first job my boss hired me straight out of flying school to fly his C208 and asked if I thought I could handle a King Air command with just 500 hours!! I told him that I'm a Gen Y and if he wanted to keep me he'd have to do better than that.
So really sucks to be you guys cos I've had an awesome career, never had to wash planes or fly those ****ty piston twins!! I've also told my new boss unless I get the GV command within 3 months I'll go elsewhere.
Do you older guys really think that ALL guys/girls my age and younger are complete f*ckwits? Come on, please I beg of you, have some common sense, or don't and continue to carry on with your stereotypical bullsh1t.
j3
Ralph,
With respect I don't think I missed the point, Florider was the subject with 440hrs and I agree with everyone else on the forum that 440 hours is just out of school.
I was not referring to the star metro pilots that get pissed off cos they don't get thier jet command. Anyhow, wouldn't these guys be a bit older than Gen Y? I'm 25, the upper limit of Gen Y and I've only just started flying twin turboprops and I consider myself extraordinarily lucky. Are you seriously saying that there are 25 year olds in airlines that are upset they haven't got thier commands?? If that is indeed the case, I'm amazed and shocked.
However, and I have said this before, anger at individuals shouldn't descend into broad brush insulting of everyone in an age bracket. It is insulting and childish, especially as I and other guys and girls have done everything in my power to distance myself from that mentality and worked hard without whingeing to get where we are
I may have over-exageratted but it was to demonstrate a point. Twotbags and nomorecatering generalised like crazy EG.
Toughen the F#$% up Gen Y, you appear to have very little appreciation of those that tired to make life better for you as a whole.
It also amazes me some of the attitudes that gen Y have, particulaly junior grade3's.
How do you respond to those two gems?
j3
With respect I don't think I missed the point, Florider was the subject with 440hrs and I agree with everyone else on the forum that 440 hours is just out of school.
I was not referring to the star metro pilots that get pissed off cos they don't get thier jet command. Anyhow, wouldn't these guys be a bit older than Gen Y? I'm 25, the upper limit of Gen Y and I've only just started flying twin turboprops and I consider myself extraordinarily lucky. Are you seriously saying that there are 25 year olds in airlines that are upset they haven't got thier commands?? If that is indeed the case, I'm amazed and shocked.
However, and I have said this before, anger at individuals shouldn't descend into broad brush insulting of everyone in an age bracket. It is insulting and childish, especially as I and other guys and girls have done everything in my power to distance myself from that mentality and worked hard without whingeing to get where we are
I may have over-exageratted but it was to demonstrate a point. Twotbags and nomorecatering generalised like crazy EG.
Toughen the F#$% up Gen Y, you appear to have very little appreciation of those that tired to make life better for you as a whole.
It also amazes me some of the attitudes that gen Y have, particulaly junior grade3's.
How do you respond to those two gems?
j3
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Interesting thread and some sage words throughout.
J3CUB :"Us Gen Y's have NEVER had it hard..." (I'll overlook the sarcasm) That's right "...CUB" - you haven't but you will. I don't need to give you a heads-up additional to the previous.
Worth noting that your demanding attitude with you boss (if true and not just big-noting), goes well beyond his business fence! You've just shat in your own nest pal. Naive for you to think he doesn't speak to major players in the Industry elsewhere... where you may wish to go.
You miss the point also: ..."those ****ty piston twins" are the very aircraft you would have learnt mistakes on, scared yourself on and have you first incident with. As it stands now, you are more dangerous on bigger/faster airframes, assuming you haven't had you first big "lesson".
Something to ponder, further to Ralphs' words above, is the fact that a major percentage of "top-gun" F/O's going for their Command upgrades are failing, in many Airlines...!
(Arh Standby I see you response...looks like we've mis-understood your words... and Yes - 25 year olds in airlines that are upset they haven't got thier commands?? The 4 x 2 is needed for a big reality check, I can assure you
)
J3CUB :"Us Gen Y's have NEVER had it hard..." (I'll overlook the sarcasm) That's right "...CUB" - you haven't but you will. I don't need to give you a heads-up additional to the previous.
Worth noting that your demanding attitude with you boss (if true and not just big-noting), goes well beyond his business fence! You've just shat in your own nest pal. Naive for you to think he doesn't speak to major players in the Industry elsewhere... where you may wish to go.
You miss the point also: ..."those ****ty piston twins" are the very aircraft you would have learnt mistakes on, scared yourself on and have you first incident with. As it stands now, you are more dangerous on bigger/faster airframes, assuming you haven't had you first big "lesson".
Something to ponder, further to Ralphs' words above, is the fact that a major percentage of "top-gun" F/O's going for their Command upgrades are failing, in many Airlines...!
(Arh Standby I see you response...looks like we've mis-understood your words... and Yes - 25 year olds in airlines that are upset they haven't got thier commands?? The 4 x 2 is needed for a big reality check, I can assure you
)
I love reading the stories about the guys sitting in the pointy ends of jets at my age! (28).. I wonder what else they are going to aspire to before they retire at 65! I think that 37 years of watching a jet fly itself somewhere might get mighty boring!
I don't get the rush to get there, because I'm finding the journey to my jet command is great fun, and learning heaps along the way - its not all about flying either, but all the other skills that need to be developed along the way that help with the command.
I'll leave all those people who rushed through their careers to retire at 45 because the job wasn't all that they seemed, or got bored and moved on. Meanwhile, I'm enjoying flying around the area I work, and flying the various types I can fly too.
I don't get the rush to get there, because I'm finding the journey to my jet command is great fun, and learning heaps along the way - its not all about flying either, but all the other skills that need to be developed along the way that help with the command.
I'll leave all those people who rushed through their careers to retire at 45 because the job wasn't all that they seemed, or got bored and moved on. Meanwhile, I'm enjoying flying around the area I work, and flying the various types I can fly too.
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You want specifics?
I can tell you about a bloke who applied for a chief pilot's job for a small piston charter outfit. Late in the process it was discovered that his resume was false (just a small error) and the company had to shell out for an endorsement for him. He said he had an endorsement he did not have. He lasted about three months and tantrums were not uncommon. He offered to hand in the keys once too often.
His next step was to go overseas and spend about $150,000 on further training A couple of years later he was still unhappy.
His next step was to go overseas and spend about $150,000 on further training A couple of years later he was still unhappy.
Chocks,
Thanks for seeing the extreme sarcasm in my post. I was merely trying to make an example. I have family in GA who have been there for over 30 years. I have experienced, if not fully understood what GA has been like most of my life.
I respect that there is a downturn here and I am fully aware that someone 15years ago with my hours would be lucky to be polishing a 310. With that in mind I realise what an absolute gift the current climate has been up until a month or two ago. As a result I worked my ar5e off and got into a nice secure job, and I intend to stay here for quite some time, I won't be demanding an upgrade or getting pissed cos the airlines aren't hiring, I'll be enjoying the journey and the flying, just like I always have.
j3
Thanks for seeing the extreme sarcasm in my post. I was merely trying to make an example. I have family in GA who have been there for over 30 years. I have experienced, if not fully understood what GA has been like most of my life.
I respect that there is a downturn here and I am fully aware that someone 15years ago with my hours would be lucky to be polishing a 310. With that in mind I realise what an absolute gift the current climate has been up until a month or two ago. As a result I worked my ar5e off and got into a nice secure job, and I intend to stay here for quite some time, I won't be demanding an upgrade or getting pissed cos the airlines aren't hiring, I'll be enjoying the journey and the flying, just like I always have.
j3
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Gen Y are born into a world where property prices are 7 x the household income (and appreciating at 20% pa) and unskilled workers are in demand at 100k per year. The world is moving fast and they don’t know any different. This might be about to change, but maybe they are driven by the feeling of necessity? Not so long ago you could actually buy a decent house on a (piston) GA wage.