Have I made a big mistake??????
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Have I made a big mistake??????
Not sure if this is the right forum - let me know if I should go somewhere else (I'm used to being told where to go!!!!
)
Anyway, I have just applied to ASA for their next ATC intake (I may not even get in but that is another story). I was quite excited about the possibility of being in that elite(????) group, doing a really interesting & challenging job. I thought I would probably make it my last job (15-20 years to go). That was until I saw the discontent on these pages
. Surely it can't be all bad - there must be some good points too.
I am hoping that somebody could tell me about the good points of being an ATC. It must still be a great (& hopefully satisfying) job to do. I would just love to hear some good points to keep my enthusiasm going. I have read about bad stuff - what about the GOOD!!!
Yours in disillusionment
)Anyway, I have just applied to ASA for their next ATC intake (I may not even get in but that is another story). I was quite excited about the possibility of being in that elite(????) group, doing a really interesting & challenging job. I thought I would probably make it my last job (15-20 years to go). That was until I saw the discontent on these pages
. Surely it can't be all bad - there must be some good points too.I am hoping that somebody could tell me about the good points of being an ATC. It must still be a great (& hopefully satisfying) job to do. I would just love to hear some good points to keep my enthusiasm going. I have read about bad stuff - what about the GOOD!!!
Yours in disillusionment
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disillusioned
mate these posts would turn anyone off, turned me off for sure. but you have to make the decision for yourself. you can try it, if its not for you then
leave after your bond.
in this industry you will get alot of advice from all sorts of people, take it on board to help you make your decision, but you only live once so i think its best to make up your mind on based on what you experience.
all the best
ps yeh i dont kinow if its the best place to post
leave after your bond.
in this industry you will get alot of advice from all sorts of people, take it on board to help you make your decision, but you only live once so i think its best to make up your mind on based on what you experience.
all the best
ps yeh i dont kinow if its the best place to post
Join Date: Dec 2005
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As fixa said the job is the best there is but ASA is probably one of the worst ANSPs going around. Having said that ASA is probably no different to most of the other companies going around, it is incredibly profit driven and is filled with middle managers who were not very good at their job telling people who are what to do.
My advice:
Go for it, the job mostly outweighs all the c*ap that goes along with it. Keep your head down during training, work hard. When you hopefully get to the field, listen to what your training officers tell you and once you get rated, go in, do the job, go home.
I have just quit ASA to go to Ireland and will miss the people I work with but not the oxygen thieves who masquerade as supervisors.
If you can handle it for 5 years, the whole world awaits you, there will never be enough ATCs.
Good luck!
My advice:
Go for it, the job mostly outweighs all the c*ap that goes along with it. Keep your head down during training, work hard. When you hopefully get to the field, listen to what your training officers tell you and once you get rated, go in, do the job, go home.
I have just quit ASA to go to Ireland and will miss the people I work with but not the oxygen thieves who masquerade as supervisors.
If you can handle it for 5 years, the whole world awaits you, there will never be enough ATCs.
Good luck!
I am in the job now (having finished in the college or academy now just over 12months ago) and love it. Give the testing a go and see how you go, if you need some advice with the testing PM me, though bear in mind I did it about 3 years ago now.
It is a great job and it will be interesting to see how the CA goes (being my frist one) but ignoring that it is a great job!
It is a great job and it will be interesting to see how the CA goes (being my frist one) but ignoring that it is a great job!
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Wot-the - the job itself is the only reason that we keep doing it in spite of all the crap we put with from the oxygen thieves.
that said, just in case nobody has told you yet, unless things change in the forthcoming EBA, you'll train on about $35K for 12 months (if you're lucky and not asked to do a fill-in job until they can slot you on a course) more field training on $53K (about 6 months) and then if you a good little soldier and jump through all the hoops, it will take you 13 years to get to the top increment of $135K.
these days, there are better paying jobs in lots of places (especially out west in the mines) so you'd better have an interest in aviation to keep you going.
and actually seperating airplanes and keeping things safe is very rewarding on an intrinsic level.
that said, just in case nobody has told you yet, unless things change in the forthcoming EBA, you'll train on about $35K for 12 months (if you're lucky and not asked to do a fill-in job until they can slot you on a course) more field training on $53K (about 6 months) and then if you a good little soldier and jump through all the hoops, it will take you 13 years to get to the top increment of $135K.
these days, there are better paying jobs in lots of places (especially out west in the mines) so you'd better have an interest in aviation to keep you going.
and actually seperating airplanes and keeping things safe is very rewarding on an intrinsic level.
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Nobody else can tell you whether you've made a mistake. What would be a mistake is making a decision based on anonymous contributions riddled with self-interest. Just do it. If you don't like it, so be it. How many people love their job anyway? Most of them don't get well paid either.
It beats the crap out of digging holes in the road for the council, I can assure you of that.
It beats the crap out of digging holes in the road for the council, I can assure you of that.
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Given you are having doubts even though you have not been offered a role speaks of a thousand words!!
I think that we have to acknowledge to ourselves, that like life, no matter where we work or what we do, things don't always go as perhaps we would like. I'd like to get a new plasma telly...can't afford it, but that doesn't mean I'm going to leave the wife so that I can.
As a former Prime Minister once quipped "life wasn't meant to be easy"
I think that we have to acknowledge to ourselves, that like life, no matter where we work or what we do, things don't always go as perhaps we would like. I'd like to get a new plasma telly...can't afford it, but that doesn't mean I'm going to leave the wife so that I can.
As a former Prime Minister once quipped "life wasn't meant to be easy"
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wot-the, as others have stated, ultimately the decision is yours.
Just like doing ATC.
If I were you, I'd definitely have a go. If you want others to make the decision for you, it is probably not the job for you anyway.
Like most Aviation related jobs, if you can learn quickly, recognise your own strengths and weaknesses, look for continual improvement and make decisions, this is a job for you.
If you can ignore advice, look after yourself to the detriment of others, curry favour, and spin your mistakes to make it others fault, maybe a managerial position would be better.
The level of dismay at the moment is due mainly to the bad decision making, and profit driven focus that the organisation has been trundling along for years. Airspace closures need never have happened if communication up and down the organisation had actually worked. They are not known as Lipservices for nothing.
Having said that, you'll never know if you never have a go.
Just like doing ATC.
If I were you, I'd definitely have a go. If you want others to make the decision for you, it is probably not the job for you anyway.
Like most Aviation related jobs, if you can learn quickly, recognise your own strengths and weaknesses, look for continual improvement and make decisions, this is a job for you.
If you can ignore advice, look after yourself to the detriment of others, curry favour, and spin your mistakes to make it others fault, maybe a managerial position would be better.
The level of dismay at the moment is due mainly to the bad decision making, and profit driven focus that the organisation has been trundling along for years. Airspace closures need never have happened if communication up and down the organisation had actually worked. They are not known as Lipservices for nothing.
Having said that, you'll never know if you never have a go.
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I think the main drag about the fact that there is a shortage of ATCs is that Management will ask you to do plenty of overtime shifts.
This is all well and good if you like the extra $ and don't mind the extra time at work. Otherwise you just don't answer your phone on days off : )
This is all well and good if you like the extra $ and don't mind the extra time at work. Otherwise you just don't answer your phone on days off : )
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Only mistake is to not have a go. Have a back up plan in case it doesn't work out or you don't like.
You may love it and think all the BS is worth it or you might hate it but there is only one way to find out.
You will always wonder !!!
You may love it and think all the BS is worth it or you might hate it but there is only one way to find out.
You will always wonder !!!
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Wot-the,
If you want to get through the selection process keep one major thing at the forefront of your mind:
Don't even hint at looking at PPRUNE in your interviews, let alone posting on it.
If you want to get through the selection process keep one major thing at the forefront of your mind:
Don't even hint at looking at PPRUNE in your interviews, let alone posting on it.
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I applied a few years ago - I love aviation & technology so I figured this could be a great way to combine them. I was very aware of the crap going on but wanted to give it a whirl. All the ATC folks I've known through working in aviation or hanging out reckoned I'd do well and to come on in and splash in the pool.
I'm 30+ and ASA had some concerns about how I hadn't studied since Uni but my results were high enough to get me in. Unfortunately, I washed out on the psych test for the following reasons:
1) I do not respect authority unless it is earned
Whoops - you can see how that could be a bad thing in ASA
2) I do not like being "just" a cog in a machine
ATC folks are wonderful cogs working in the structure that has been set up - they do an amazing job but they have to be able to stay in place and do their cog-work properly for the system to work. One cog not turning properly upsets the lot (that type of thing).
3) I will bend the rules if necessary to get a job done
I'm a great fan of process & procedures but prefer lean to heavy and am willing to bend things a bit here & there (usually with buy-in from those involved). This is not a good trait in a controller.
NOTE: They probably figured this one from answers in the psych test related to "I'll exceed the speed limit if in a hurry"
4) I like to keep myself busy
ATC has large periods of quiet in between the times of extreme insanity. ASA were worried that I'd get bored if there wasn't something happening - apparently more ATC incidents happen during quiet times than busy.
NOTE: this was a few years back - given the lack of staff, I doubt there's much "quiet time" right now
5) I'm always seeking to improve things
I always want to make life better - this is great as a project manager in IT development work but lousy for ATC where processes & procedures are developed by "those who know" and the rest of us just have to do what's required.
So, basically, thanks to the above the HR folks at ASA were concerned that I'd go stir crazy and wouldn't even last the first 5 years in the job. So, they sent me a "Sorry, you're not suitable and please never apply again in future" letter. I had to call back and talk to an HR rep to get the details regarding my psych profile, etc.
So, I guess I'll be using ATC but not working in it. C'est la vie and all that.
(Amusing aside: I passed this information on my father and he cracked up - he'd just had a psych eval during recruitment for a senior exec position which revealed the same stuff - kinda explains the hassles he had in the Air Force)
I'm 30+ and ASA had some concerns about how I hadn't studied since Uni but my results were high enough to get me in. Unfortunately, I washed out on the psych test for the following reasons:
1) I do not respect authority unless it is earned
Whoops - you can see how that could be a bad thing in ASA
2) I do not like being "just" a cog in a machine
ATC folks are wonderful cogs working in the structure that has been set up - they do an amazing job but they have to be able to stay in place and do their cog-work properly for the system to work. One cog not turning properly upsets the lot (that type of thing).
3) I will bend the rules if necessary to get a job done
I'm a great fan of process & procedures but prefer lean to heavy and am willing to bend things a bit here & there (usually with buy-in from those involved). This is not a good trait in a controller.
NOTE: They probably figured this one from answers in the psych test related to "I'll exceed the speed limit if in a hurry"
4) I like to keep myself busy
ATC has large periods of quiet in between the times of extreme insanity. ASA were worried that I'd get bored if there wasn't something happening - apparently more ATC incidents happen during quiet times than busy.
NOTE: this was a few years back - given the lack of staff, I doubt there's much "quiet time" right now
5) I'm always seeking to improve things
I always want to make life better - this is great as a project manager in IT development work but lousy for ATC where processes & procedures are developed by "those who know" and the rest of us just have to do what's required.
So, basically, thanks to the above the HR folks at ASA were concerned that I'd go stir crazy and wouldn't even last the first 5 years in the job. So, they sent me a "Sorry, you're not suitable and please never apply again in future" letter. I had to call back and talk to an HR rep to get the details regarding my psych profile, etc.
So, I guess I'll be using ATC but not working in it. C'est la vie and all that.
(Amusing aside: I passed this information on my father and he cracked up - he'd just had a psych eval during recruitment for a senior exec position which revealed the same stuff - kinda explains the hassles he had in the Air Force
)
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Great job, terrible company. Make sure you give consideration to the shift work too. You may prefer it but at times I go 4 days without seeing the wife other than in passing.
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Okay...
I'm 11 years with ASA/CAA being Flight Service, ATC with Twr App ratings, enroute.....and I agree with pretty much all of the posts along the lines of .....great job...but full of oxygen theives....
8 years later....Capt on B737 with VB....it's still a bit the same....but if flying is your passion, don't piss about with ATC..it will drive you and your family nuts....just go flying..you will make it...and love it...
I'm 11 years with ASA/CAA being Flight Service, ATC with Twr App ratings, enroute.....and I agree with pretty much all of the posts along the lines of .....great job...but full of oxygen theives....
8 years later....Capt on B737 with VB....it's still a bit the same....but if flying is your passion, don't piss about with ATC..it will drive you and your family nuts....just go flying..you will make it...and love it...
