Emergency Landing NW Victoria
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Emergency Landing NW Victoria
From NEWS Ltd Breaking News:
A LIGHT plane on its way back from a medical clinic has made an emergency landing in a paddock in north-western Victoria.
The pilot managed to land the plane safely in the paddock in Kalpienung, about 310km from Melbourne, before a wheel snapped off, causing the plane to flip on its roof.
Investigators have been told the two people in the plane were returning from Edenhope, about 395km north-west of Melbourne, after conducting a medical clinic, police said.
The pilot, a 54-year-old doctor from Mildura, and his passenger, a 58-year-old woman from Swan Hill, were treated for shock at the scene and taken to Swan Hill Hospital as a precaution.
Police said the plane started having engine troubles at 7500 feet and dropped to 3000 feet.
The pilot initially managed to rectify the problem and the plane climbed to a height of 3500 feet before again experiencing engine trouble.
Police said the pilot managed to land safely in a paddock at about 4.30pm (AEST) but as he was turning the plane the front wheel dug into the ground and snapped off, causing the plane to flip onto its roof.
"The pilot has done a great job in landing the plane safely," Senior Constable Matthew Jenkins said.
A LIGHT plane on its way back from a medical clinic has made an emergency landing in a paddock in north-western Victoria.
The pilot managed to land the plane safely in the paddock in Kalpienung, about 310km from Melbourne, before a wheel snapped off, causing the plane to flip on its roof.
Investigators have been told the two people in the plane were returning from Edenhope, about 395km north-west of Melbourne, after conducting a medical clinic, police said.
The pilot, a 54-year-old doctor from Mildura, and his passenger, a 58-year-old woman from Swan Hill, were treated for shock at the scene and taken to Swan Hill Hospital as a precaution.
Police said the plane started having engine troubles at 7500 feet and dropped to 3000 feet.
The pilot initially managed to rectify the problem and the plane climbed to a height of 3500 feet before again experiencing engine trouble.
Police said the pilot managed to land safely in a paddock at about 4.30pm (AEST) but as he was turning the plane the front wheel dug into the ground and snapped off, causing the plane to flip onto its roof.
"The pilot has done a great job in landing the plane safely," Senior Constable Matthew Jenkins said.
The aeroplane came down about 8nm ESE of Culgoa, which is on the Calder highway. Kerang and Swanhill are the biggest nearby regional centres and Swanhill hospital would've been the go. Fortunately both occupants of the aircraft are OK.
Now that is no way to treat a Bonanza!
And the moral of the story? Unless you are sure of the surface you are landing on - leave the gear up! This aircraft may well have suffered far less damage and would most likely have remained upright had it been put down on its belly!
Dr
And the moral of the story? Unless you are sure of the surface you are landing on - leave the gear up! This aircraft may well have suffered far less damage and would most likely have remained upright had it been put down on its belly!
Dr
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now now Dr we all know what Capt wally would say to yr words...'and the moral of the story'?
I guess from the air the ground appeared firm enough, but in hindsight a wheels up is best. But when making that decision as in still airborne faced with little time it would be a hard pill to swallow when you know that there will be damage to the plane landed wheels up as against a wheels down ldg where it might have been possible to get off scott free, obviously not in this case.
'Jaba' not a lot of spares for the Dr there, unless it has 4X GPS's then even that would top the Dr's
CW
we all know what Capt wally would say to yr words...'and the moral of the story'? I guess from the air the ground appeared firm enough, but in hindsight a wheels up is best. But when making that decision as in still airborne faced with little time it would be a hard pill to swallow when you know that there will be damage to the plane landed wheels up as against a wheels down ldg where it might have been possible to get off scott free, obviously not in this case.'Jaba' not a lot of spares for the Dr there, unless it has 4X GPS's then even that would top the Dr's
CW
in hindsight a wheels up is best. But when making that decision as in still airborne faced with little time it would be a hard pill to swallow when you know that there will be damage to the plane landed wheels up as against a wheels down ldg where it might have been possible to get off scott free
In my view, at the point when the engine stops delivering sufficient goods to keep me airborne, the insurance company owns the aeroplane - and I am totally commited to parking it in a manner that maximises my chances (and that of my pax) of walking away from it in one piece.
Dr
Grandpa Aerotart
God damn it he's trashed BOTH leading edge skins
I could use that right flap though
Most of the ribs prolly ok...I'll know if I need any of them in a few weeks.
Glad everyone is ok...yet another example of wheels up unless certain of the surface...look at how lush and green it is...good indication of soft surface...to soft for a Bo anyway.
I could use that right flap though
Most of the ribs prolly ok...I'll know if I need any of them in a few weeks.
Glad everyone is ok...yet another example of wheels up unless certain of the surface...look at how lush and green it is...good indication of soft surface...to soft for a Bo anyway.
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FTDK and CHUCK
Funny you should mention about landing gear up in an emergency.
At a Bonanza proficiency course I attended a few years ago, a well respected guest instructor from the States (and experienced others)advocated landing with the gear DOWN to dissipate energy. He also reckoned that directional control by the nose wheel on the initial ground contact could determine what you ran into! The view was that the gear should be lowered unless water or known soft surface would be encountered upon the forced landing. I often debate within myself, what would be be the best choice, if ever faced.
It would be hard to know what to do before the event. I don't think you could blame that guy for leaving the gear down. From the air, and in that situation, it probably looked a pretty good place to park.
Sad to see a nice Bo end up like that. I'd love to know what caused the engine problem
Funny you should mention about landing gear up in an emergency.
At a Bonanza proficiency course I attended a few years ago, a well respected guest instructor from the States (and experienced others)advocated landing with the gear DOWN to dissipate energy. He also reckoned that directional control by the nose wheel on the initial ground contact could determine what you ran into! The view was that the gear should be lowered unless water or known soft surface would be encountered upon the forced landing. I often debate within myself, what would be be the best choice, if ever faced.
It would be hard to know what to do before the event. I don't think you could blame that guy for leaving the gear down. From the air, and in that situation, it probably looked a pretty good place to park.
Sad to see a nice Bo end up like that. I'd love to know what caused the engine problem
At a Bonanza proficiency course I attended a few years ago, a well respected guest instructor from the States (and experienced others)advocated landing with the gear DOWN to dissipate energy.
How many people get hurt doing belly landings?
The only one I can think of is a guy in Fiji many years ago who stopped feathered the props on an Aztruck and tried to get them horizontal. Didnt get it right - Aztruck on its back, cabin crushed, pilot dead!
Dr
PS: That's why I steer clear of Bonanza proficiency courses!
The only one I can think of is a guy in Fiji many years ago who stopped feathered the props on an Aztruck and tried to get them horizontal. Didnt get it right - Aztruck on its back, cabin crushed, pilot dead!
Grandpa Aerotart
I know who you mean Beachy...he used to be against LOP operations too. He seems to have changed his tune on that.
So he expects the gear to rip off/collapse? The main gear on a Bo is VERY strong. Look above for one result. Watch that takeoff crash in the states that is on youtube for another example.
Um...nope can't get my head around that one...in fact I struggle to think of a quicker way to stress the nose gear
Anyone want to take a punt on what decision THIS pilot would make faced with another off airport forced landing in a retractable?
advocated landing with the gear DOWN to dissipate energy
He also reckoned that directional control by the nose wheel on the initial ground contact could determine what you ran into!
Anyone want to take a punt on what decision THIS pilot would make faced with another off airport forced landing in a retractable?
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Yeah, FTDK I scratched my head at the time, but it sure gets you thinking.
What choice would you make if there was only big timber and a fence line with timber posts?
... or
a narrow dirt road cut out of a tree canopy and a chanelled claypan
...or
pulled timber and a big gibber/boulder plain....
What do you do?
gear up or down?
All hypotheticals
Some have walked away from these situations in fixed gear machines and lived to tell the tail.. and some have not.
I'm sure the pilot involved here thought he was doing the best option
What choice would you make if there was only big timber and a fence line with timber posts?
... or
a narrow dirt road cut out of a tree canopy and a chanelled claypan
...or
pulled timber and a big gibber/boulder plain....
What do you do?
gear up or down?
All hypotheticals
Some have walked away from these situations in fixed gear machines and lived to tell the tail.. and some have not.
I'm sure the pilot involved here thought he was doing the best option
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In one of the best shows ever made for video........."what yr going in with the wheels down? I'd give anything not to but we'll never up again! oh I suppose not" Small prize for correct answer there as to whom said those clasic statements
I wouldn't mind betting that the happless pilot in this current event might be thinking exactly the same thing, I know I would have.
Hey Dr working anything out b4 hand in yr head is fine in the real world but we don't often live in the real world now do we buddy?
CW
Small prize for correct answer there as to whom said those clasic statementsI wouldn't mind betting that the happless pilot in this current event might be thinking exactly the same thing, I know I would have.
Hey Dr
working anything out b4 hand in yr head is fine in the real world but we don't often live in the real world now do we buddy?CW
working anything out b4 hand in yr head is fine in the real world but we don't often live in the real world now do we buddy?
It has kept me safe for 35 years flying in two countries, and saved my hide more times than I care to admit.
I was the low time VFR PPL who flew into IMC - and out again.
I was the new CPL who flew up a valley under a solid overcast with the cloud on the hills either side - and turned around while I still had enough room to do so.
I was the pilot who landed on a road when the fuel guages were both on the red line - and bumbed fuel from a station property.
etc etc etc
If the FTDK's engine ****s itself - its going in with the wheels up, unless there is an obviously clear hard long surface in front of me!
Dr
PS: ..... and I'll post the pics in here while waiting for the SES chopper to come pick me up!
Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 1st Sep 2008 at 13:59.
Grandpa Aerotart
When I was first learning to fly the WW2 era pilots were still (if just barely) the current crop of (really) old hands.
I think it would be fair to say there has never been in the history of aviation a bigger cohort of people with direct or indirect experience of this sort of thing...as in what % of service pilots hadn't experienced directly, or watched a squadron mate experience directly, a forced landing on an unprepared surface...and lets face it even the home bases weren't that well prepared sometimes.
1000s of pilots literally.
And the advice that came from that enormous experiential database?
If in any doubt - wheels up.
Somewhere in the last 20 years, and I cannot put my finger on exactly where/why, that rule changed.
There is yet another example of this change in attitude that led to a less than optimal outcome. In the last year or so there was an article in the ABS (American Bonanza Society) mag where a chap experienced a catastrophic engine failure and force landed into a mature corn field. He decided to put the gear down 'to absorb the impact' and tore his aeroplane up badly. He didn't flip but did at least as much damage as you see in the sad picture above.
Why?
I would take bets that he was told it was a good idea on a BPPP refresher training course that are so popular with my fellow ABS members. I have never been to one and won't be going to one anytime soon. I asked John Deakin if he'd ever been to one as I had my doubts about them. He admitted to having been to one once - and asked for a refund before leaving early.
Now if this chap had gone into the corn wheels up it is highly likely he would have done virtually no damage to his aircraft. The Bonanza has a built up keel that runs down the bottom from the nose bowl to the rear of the cabin...they are REALLY STRONG. Beechcraft built them that way because they KNEW plenty of their aircraft were gong to end up on their bellies one way or another. Imagine how gentle it would be sliding into 10' high corn and slowing down crushing the stuff under you as you went...you'd probably never actually touch the ground.
Instead he REALLY tore up a lovely V35B.
Few, if any, pilots are capable of being spontaneously clever. If you don't think through scenarios in the quiet of your living room, and read critically every article you can get your hands on about other peoples experiences, you have no hope of making the 'best' choice in the heat of the moment. That is why those of us flying professionally spend so much time in simulators - to condition the 'best' response in us to the point of it being automatic and devoid of emotion.
I am VERY firmly with FTDK on this subject - I can think of remarkably few scenarios where I will put my Bonanza down off airport with the wheels down. The edge of a dried salt pan is one - a sealed road another - and that is about it.
In every other case you're really asking for a minor miracle. How many dirt roads are without scary potholes? How many otherwise beautiful grass paddocks are without a log laying in the grass, or a drainage trench, old rabbit warrens...or soft surface/areas. I once ripped the nosewheel out of an Islander taxiing on a soft dirt strip in PNG. I wasn't going fast and everyone who came past on other flights while I was awaiting rescue looked at what I had taxied over and the result and said "That....caused that?" Yup
There was the case earlier this year when some chap put an A36 down in a paddock with the wheels down and he got away with it. Did he make the 'best' decision or was he merely very lucky?
I would suggest, unless he owned the paddock and knew it intimately, that he was mostly lucky. If I am ever faced with the reality discussed in this thread I will be putting it down wheels up and if I slide to a halt on a beautifully smooth, firm paddock I will still say that I made the 'best' decision because that beautifully smooth firm paddock was pure fluke.
I think it would be fair to say there has never been in the history of aviation a bigger cohort of people with direct or indirect experience of this sort of thing...as in what % of service pilots hadn't experienced directly, or watched a squadron mate experience directly, a forced landing on an unprepared surface...and lets face it even the home bases weren't that well prepared sometimes.
1000s of pilots literally.
And the advice that came from that enormous experiential database?
If in any doubt - wheels up.
Somewhere in the last 20 years, and I cannot put my finger on exactly where/why, that rule changed.
There is yet another example of this change in attitude that led to a less than optimal outcome. In the last year or so there was an article in the ABS (American Bonanza Society) mag where a chap experienced a catastrophic engine failure and force landed into a mature corn field. He decided to put the gear down 'to absorb the impact' and tore his aeroplane up badly. He didn't flip but did at least as much damage as you see in the sad picture above.
Why?
I would take bets that he was told it was a good idea on a BPPP refresher training course that are so popular with my fellow ABS members. I have never been to one and won't be going to one anytime soon. I asked John Deakin if he'd ever been to one as I had my doubts about them. He admitted to having been to one once - and asked for a refund before leaving early.
Now if this chap had gone into the corn wheels up it is highly likely he would have done virtually no damage to his aircraft. The Bonanza has a built up keel that runs down the bottom from the nose bowl to the rear of the cabin...they are REALLY STRONG. Beechcraft built them that way because they KNEW plenty of their aircraft were gong to end up on their bellies one way or another. Imagine how gentle it would be sliding into 10' high corn and slowing down crushing the stuff under you as you went...you'd probably never actually touch the ground.
Instead he REALLY tore up a lovely V35B.
Few, if any, pilots are capable of being spontaneously clever. If you don't think through scenarios in the quiet of your living room, and read critically every article you can get your hands on about other peoples experiences, you have no hope of making the 'best' choice in the heat of the moment. That is why those of us flying professionally spend so much time in simulators - to condition the 'best' response in us to the point of it being automatic and devoid of emotion.
I am VERY firmly with FTDK on this subject - I can think of remarkably few scenarios where I will put my Bonanza down off airport with the wheels down. The edge of a dried salt pan is one - a sealed road another - and that is about it.
In every other case you're really asking for a minor miracle. How many dirt roads are without scary potholes? How many otherwise beautiful grass paddocks are without a log laying in the grass, or a drainage trench, old rabbit warrens...or soft surface/areas. I once ripped the nosewheel out of an Islander taxiing on a soft dirt strip in PNG. I wasn't going fast and everyone who came past on other flights while I was awaiting rescue looked at what I had taxied over and the result and said "That....caused that?" Yup
There was the case earlier this year when some chap put an A36 down in a paddock with the wheels down and he got away with it. Did he make the 'best' decision or was he merely very lucky?
I would suggest, unless he owned the paddock and knew it intimately, that he was mostly lucky. If I am ever faced with the reality discussed in this thread I will be putting it down wheels up and if I slide to a halt on a beautifully smooth, firm paddock I will still say that I made the 'best' decision because that beautifully smooth firm paddock was pure fluke.
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 1st Sep 2008 at 15:34.