Emergency Landing NW Victoria
Understand that all was going ok, until the fence in the picture prompted a turn when the nosewheel dug in and that was it. Chances are that it would have stopped by the fence, but even hitting it a slow speed would not have been as bad.
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Instead he REALLY tore up a lovely V35B.
On a serious not, the notion of being able to steer with the is crazy, if its anything but smooth hard dirt or bitumen the nosewheel will not give much steerage at all. In fact at just after touching down the rudder (ruddervators) will be far more effective until the speed drops.
J
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At this time of year down south you'd be looking to put the wheel up for sure on grass, it's just too darn wet to consider a successful out-landing. I had an outlanding on a proper grass airstrip and still ran into trouble!
Based on my recent bad out-landing experience I'll be aiming for a road of any kind for atleast the next couple of months, then back onto grass, as long as it's not round hay bale season though!
Based on my recent bad out-landing experience I'll be aiming for a road of any kind for atleast the next couple of months, then back onto grass, as long as it's not round hay bale season though!
Grandpa Aerotart
Beachy one wing tip is bent up and one down. I'd say he went over on the nose and right wing tip and then the left wing tip was damaged as the aircraft settled on its roof.
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?fuel -
the pilot " quickly switched fuel tanks and the plane climbed to 3500 feet before the engine failed again. He managed to land the plane safely in a barley paddock, but as he turned the plane the front wheel dug into the ground and snapped off, flipping the plan over."
the pilot " quickly switched fuel tanks and the plane climbed to 3500 feet before the engine failed again. He managed to land the plane safely in a barley paddock, but as he turned the plane the front wheel dug into the ground and snapped off, flipping the plan over."
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I'm still not convinced that this guy did the wrong thing here by landing wheels down. Take a close look at the surface just in front of the up turned plane. Looks firm enough, hardly any deep ruts there. Take a close look at the wheels/tyres on the actual plane, esspecially the nose assembly, dry as a chip ! no mud nothing to show that he just landed in anything other than slightly long grass under a reasonable firm surface. it's still classified droubt out that way despite the recent rain.
Now this is theroy of course & we are ALL entitled to an opinion 'till the truth is known but perhaps the pilot 'plonked' the bird down hard (heavens knows he was under stress at the time, we could all do likewise) & the nose wheel collapsed under extreme force sending the prop into the earth which is soft enough to dig in & a flip was the result. Theroy only but seeing as the ground looks firm enough it might be plausable. Further as someone suggested the wing tips are damaged, fence or another obstruction perhaps?
Just as a comparison I once landed an A36 under duress (stress of wx) at Coonabarabran x-strip, long story in very heavy black wet soil. the plane stopped within a few meters & was covered in muck, enough to bog a duck !
No sign of it going over although I thought it would the way we slowed so rapidly.
Thoughts anyone other than being nasty?
CW
Now this is theroy of course & we are ALL entitled to an opinion 'till the truth is known but perhaps the pilot 'plonked' the bird down hard (heavens knows he was under stress at the time, we could all do likewise) & the nose wheel collapsed under extreme force sending the prop into the earth which is soft enough to dig in & a flip was the result. Theroy only but seeing as the ground looks firm enough it might be plausable. Further as someone suggested the wing tips are damaged, fence or another obstruction perhaps?
Just as a comparison I once landed an A36 under duress (stress of wx) at Coonabarabran x-strip, long story in very heavy black wet soil. the plane stopped within a few meters & was covered in muck, enough to bog a duck !
No sign of it going over although I thought it would the way we slowed so rapidly.Thoughts anyone other than being nasty?
CW
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Just as a comparison I once landed an A36 under duress (stress of wx) at Coonabarabran x-strip, long story in very heavy black wet soil. the plane stopped within a few meters & was covered in muck, enough to bog a duck !
No sign of it going over although I thought it would the way we slowed so rapidly.
No sign of it going over although I thought it would the way we slowed so rapidly.
you flew a single......... in bad weather....... and maybe even VFR
Cheers!
J
Grandpa Aerotart
I have stayed away from describing the pilot's actions as wrong, bad or any other such negative terms because I don't think his actions deserve such criticism. It was very likely his first real engine failure/forced landing and he is alive to talk about it, as is his passenger.
To put a heavy, fast aeroplane, with relatively small high pressure tires, like a Bonanza down on an unknown surface successfully requires more luck than I like to rely on. He made a decision to lower the gear that I would not have for the reasons I have given...thats all. I'd be very interested to hear from him whether he would make the same decision again in light of this experience.
As I said before, one wingtip is bent up and one down. Someone suggested he turned to avoid the fence in the background...he certainly was still traveling at a fair speed because the aircraft ended up on it's back. If you think about the geometry of a tricycle undercarriage it is very much more difficult (but not impossible) to flip end over end even if the nosewheel fails. If you turn at high speed though, and something digs in, it becomes a different story altogether. I think the aircraft went over on its back on the prop hub and right wingtip and the left wingtip was damaged as it came to rest inverted.
Wally I tend to think if the entire field, or a goodly proportion was mud, a different result is likely. You slide in mud, even going sideways mud has 'give'...at least until it piles up...ask me how I know
To put a heavy, fast aeroplane, with relatively small high pressure tires, like a Bonanza down on an unknown surface successfully requires more luck than I like to rely on. He made a decision to lower the gear that I would not have for the reasons I have given...thats all. I'd be very interested to hear from him whether he would make the same decision again in light of this experience.
As I said before, one wingtip is bent up and one down. Someone suggested he turned to avoid the fence in the background...he certainly was still traveling at a fair speed because the aircraft ended up on it's back. If you think about the geometry of a tricycle undercarriage it is very much more difficult (but not impossible) to flip end over end even if the nosewheel fails. If you turn at high speed though, and something digs in, it becomes a different story altogether. I think the aircraft went over on its back on the prop hub and right wingtip and the left wingtip was damaged as it came to rest inverted.
Wally I tend to think if the entire field, or a goodly proportion was mud, a different result is likely. You slide in mud, even going sideways mud has 'give'...at least until it piles up...ask me how I know
Grandpa Aerotart
You don't do 'rhetorical' real well do ya doc?
I bin down a couple of strips sideways
Sometimes sooty's desire to receive 'stuff' overcame his ability to accurately describe the weather/condition of the airstrip.
I bin down a couple of strips sideways
Sometimes sooty's desire to receive 'stuff' overcame his ability to accurately describe the weather/condition of the airstrip.
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Forkie you showin yer age agin - bin a LONG ime since SES had anythin to do wiv helicopters in Qld 
Chuck - giday bloke! Your beast any closer to being back in one piece?
Off topic - Gawd I hate the media sh!te about unijured people being "treated for Shock"
- or worse yet being "rushed to hospital"
.
Shock (from trauma) is a clinical condition with a 20% + fatality rate and is associated with significant blood loss, NOT with having your nerves rattled by an injury-free near-death experience. Similarly, in near 20 years of emergency medicine I can count on one hand the number of times I saw anyone "rushed" to hospital.
Back to topic - so the Doctor Killer strikes again hey! Good to see they got away with it anyhow, discussions on the relative merits of forced landing configurations notwithstanding.
Chuck - giday bloke! Your beast any closer to being back in one piece?
Off topic - Gawd I hate the media sh!te about unijured people being "treated for Shock"
- or worse yet being "rushed to hospital". Shock (from trauma) is a clinical condition with a 20% + fatality rate and is associated with significant blood loss, NOT with having your nerves rattled by an injury-free near-death experience. Similarly, in near 20 years of emergency medicine I can count on one hand the number of times I saw anyone "rushed" to hospital.
Back to topic - so the Doctor Killer strikes again hey! Good to see they got away with it anyhow, discussions on the relative merits of forced landing configurations notwithstanding.
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'Cc' you bring good points into this chat. I agree if the surface was known to be muddy wheels up ldg for sure everytime but am sure the pilot believed as most would given the current climate that the surface was 'doable' wheels down. At the end of the day his choice, we all have choices as to how we handle an individual emergency despite basic training. I believe I would have done the same thing as he did on that particular day into that particular piece of dirt
'Jaba' please 4give me for flying a SE but me thinks I didn't do ALL of my training in a multi turbo prop Looking back on my SE training I think, sheeeeeez the things I/we did ! That particular day was very stressful, funny now when I look back on it but it involved a RAAF herc, an out of date ERSA & some very ordinary wx with the usual work pressures on top of that, oh & a 'green' pilot, ME
This guy bent his plane big time, hopefully it was insured, he has learnt something from the event am sure & we can benifit from his misshap also.
he's lucky he was in a retractable A/C, some are not so lucky with choice
Debate is a healthy thing, we can all learn from others
CW
'Jaba' please 4give me for flying a SE but me thinks I didn't do ALL of my training in a multi turbo prop
Looking back on my SE training I think, sheeeeeez the things I/we did ! That particular day was very stressful, funny now when I look back on it but it involved a RAAF herc, an out of date ERSA & some very ordinary wx with the usual work pressures on top of that, oh & a 'green' pilot, METhis guy bent his plane big time, hopefully it was insured, he has learnt something from the event am sure & we can benifit from his misshap also.
he's lucky he was in a retractable A/C, some are not so lucky with choice
Debate is a healthy thing, we can all learn from others
CW
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As much as it's possible to judge from the photo it does not appear that the surface of the paddock would preclude a gear down landing ie seems firm enough. Technique can make a difference, as in keep the weight off the nose wheel. Making an off airport landing is always going to entail a measure of risk and spent a lot of my youth operating out of wheat paddocks with stumps, rocks, furrows, stubble etc to contend with. Mate dead sticked his A36 after running out of fuel near Griffith during an air race. Landed gear down in a paddock (he too was wheat paddock checked ) and would have been successful had a ditch not torn out the nose wheel at the end of the run, very little damage all told and soon put back in the air - didn't turn on its back though.
) and would have been successful had a ditch not torn out the nose wheel at the end of the run, very little damage all told and soon put back in the air - didn't turn on its back though.
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I treat my nose wheel like I would an 18yr old virgin. It amazes me how many a pilot I've flown with leaves it hard on the ground through the complete takeoff run. Whilst I know raising it will slow down the takeoff roll, a careful balance is required. Same goes for landing. Plonking it down straight away may result in what we are talking about here. The correct technique would be to leave it off as long as possible. Hard I know in an emergency but I'd rather run into a fence nose high than nose low.
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I treat my nose wheel like I would an 18yr old virgin.
J
Grandpa Aerotart
As much as it's possible to judge from the photo it does not appear that the surface of the paddock would preclude a gear down landing ie seems firm enough.
The fact remains the aircraft is upside down and written off.
Your mate was indeed very lucky that the trench was near the end of his landing roll not the beginning or he likely would have ended up like the subject of this thread.
Different story in a precautionary search and landing type scenario where you can do several slow/low flybys and have time to weigh options. A Bonanza glides a bit like an aerodynamically efficient manhole cover even with the gear up - gear down it is more house brick...compared to a Cessna anyway. Throw the gear out and you have to lower the nose quite dramatically to maintain speed (90kts recommended glide - configured) and the round out and flare just became MUCH more critical.
You have maybe 30 seconds to judge a surfaces condition from 1nm away as you turn final. Pretty big call unless you're a farmer. Looking down from 2-3000' above tells you, essentially, nothing but the colour.
- so the Doctor Killer strikes again hey!
I suspect the pilot harboured a secret ambition to fly a V-tail ( as everybody does) and this was his way of moving closer to that by modifying the tail of the A36 somewhat!
Pity about the co-latteral damage!
Dr
