Engineers risking my job!
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Quote: "Engineers do a great job but no more than those working in the office for much less"
I suppose office workers don't need years of training, aren't up at all times of the day and night, in all types of weather, aren't respondsible for keeping the pilots arses as safe as possible, don't kill 500 people when they stuff up their office job, and do't go to jail for doing so.
Obviously you, and the many others you talk of, are ill informed or ignorant, learn about what the engineers actually do, then comment or try and fly a broken plane without wishing you had an engineer there to fix it for you.
I suppose office workers don't need years of training, aren't up at all times of the day and night, in all types of weather, aren't respondsible for keeping the pilots arses as safe as possible, don't kill 500 people when they stuff up their office job, and do't go to jail for doing so.
Obviously you, and the many others you talk of, are ill informed or ignorant, learn about what the engineers actually do, then comment or try and fly a broken plane without wishing you had an engineer there to fix it for you.
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Just for the record, having experienced, long and short haul and GA, the description "beats working for a living" you young fool is often muttered with in sarcastic tones in long haul in a nod to
1) Debilitating fatigue after long haul flying
2) Being a stranger in your own life
3) Missing half your kids birthdays
4) Spending half your life with total strangers.
etc etc etc.
So please learn the facts before you mouth off total bolocks.
You pick the career path that suits you in flying and if you want the one where the big money is....then bloody well work to get there.
As another learned man said, "Work smarter not harder" but often personal lifestyle choice and priorities make the position of lesser paid but more normal life regional pilot the perfect job.
Grow up.
I think you'll finbd that 99.9999% of 3% ers (all QF employees) are at one with the enginees and damn proud that they have had the balls to speak up where we all have been cowed by fear and/or history.
You sir (the author of this thead).... are a disgrace.
1) Debilitating fatigue after long haul flying
2) Being a stranger in your own life
3) Missing half your kids birthdays
4) Spending half your life with total strangers.
etc etc etc.
So please learn the facts before you mouth off total bolocks.
You pick the career path that suits you in flying and if you want the one where the big money is....then bloody well work to get there.
As another learned man said, "Work smarter not harder" but often personal lifestyle choice and priorities make the position of lesser paid but more normal life regional pilot the perfect job.
Grow up.
I think you'll finbd that 99.9999% of 3% ers (all QF employees) are at one with the enginees and damn proud that they have had the balls to speak up where we all have been cowed by fear and/or history.
You sir (the author of this thead).... are a disgrace.
Last edited by ejectx3; 5th Jul 2008 at 15:26.
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While Inandout is obviously a troll, you would be surprised how close to the truth he is. I was quite shocked at talking to a fellow QF employee who works at Geoff's business travel agency. She said you'd be hard pressed to find just one person in support of the engineers. The main problem is that they all think that if they only got 3%, why should anyone else get more. And they believe GD's doom and gloom. As far as they are concerned, you all get 130k a year, and got 7% bonus last year.
There isn't a lot of logic in their thinking. In fact they get hammered every day at work because they can never get enough people. They keep recruiting but no body stays. The reason? They don't pay enough, and have ridiculous procedures dreamed up by people with no experience in dealing with the job. It hasn't quite dawned on them the irony between this, and their lack of support with the engineers!
I've actually emailed their union to get some more information out to them to balance the misinformation up a bit.
There isn't a lot of logic in their thinking. In fact they get hammered every day at work because they can never get enough people. They keep recruiting but no body stays. The reason? They don't pay enough, and have ridiculous procedures dreamed up by people with no experience in dealing with the job. It hasn't quite dawned on them the irony between this, and their lack of support with the engineers!
I've actually emailed their union to get some more information out to them to balance the misinformation up a bit.
Yeah, we all should accept less than inflation pay "rises" so that our wonderful management and CEO's can go on destroying the company by removing more and more irreplaceable staff while using the reduced costs to increase their bonuses, ignoring the fact that this will severely impact the long term sustainability of the company. Doesn't matter to them though, they've got their bonuses.
WE ALL SUPPORT THE ENGINEERS
GOOD ON YOU, GUYS...DON'T GIVE UP
yes I've been disrupted by their action, but what choice did they have when 18 months of negotiation got the same disgraceful response from 'management'? What use is negotiation when the other party refuses to negotiate? What recourse is left then?
You'll never hear one of us making that stupid PA ("your delay is the engineers fault"). More like "the delay is the fault of management for offering only a pay cut and refusing to negotiate".
Inandout...nice one, TROLL. Interesting trying to ID the pilots who agree with the engineers, when its ALL OF US!!
WE ALL SUPPORT THE ENGINEERS
GOOD ON YOU, GUYS...DON'T GIVE UP
yes I've been disrupted by their action, but what choice did they have when 18 months of negotiation got the same disgraceful response from 'management'? What use is negotiation when the other party refuses to negotiate? What recourse is left then?
You'll never hear one of us making that stupid PA ("your delay is the engineers fault"). More like "the delay is the fault of management for offering only a pay cut and refusing to negotiate".
Inandout...nice one, TROLL. Interesting trying to ID the pilots who agree with the engineers, when its ALL OF US!!
inandout - hopefully you can understand this: Inflation is currently running at 4.2% and trending upwards. Average earnings in the private sector for the 12 months ended Feb 08 increased by 5.0% (source:ABS). The 5% claim by engineers is perfectly reasonable in the circumstances. Nurses, teachers and police in various States have received substantially more than this very recently.
Thread Starter
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I understand many in the work force have received more than 3%, however that does not justify Engineers getting more than their fellow workers at Qantas who got 3 %. Many of those in the so called office work much longer hours for less than an engineer and many do have degrees with years of study to get to that position and they had to earn their increase, it was not just given to them. What I am saying is if we are not carefull none of us will have a job because costs will over take income and that relationship is now in motion. Whist many pilots on this site do support the engineers most employees at Qantas do not and further want to keep their job. The situation is getting really bad and soon it will start to effect many. Qantas can not operate at a loss. Those of you here supporting them are in the minority and they may just cost you your job. When fuel hits $150 Qantas will no longer be able to run as it does and the model will change and maybe it will no longer require many peoples services.
Last edited by inandout; 5th Jul 2008 at 21:37.
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Green Gorilla,
Which Q pilot are you referring to? I was pretty sure this bloke wasn't a pilot, in fact he doesn't even seem to work for Qantas, he works in the "industry". Just trying to keep the facts straight, not fair to pigeon hole.
Which Q pilot are you referring to? I was pretty sure this bloke wasn't a pilot, in fact he doesn't even seem to work for Qantas, he works in the "industry". Just trying to keep the facts straight, not fair to pigeon hole.
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Inandout,
If your mates in the office are crucial to the company, they would never get rid of them. If your dedicated, highly-trained, long-hour working office staff fulfil some irreplaceable function, and management realise the role of that function you have nothing to worry about.
Fortunately you will be the last to go as those skills you talk about are not easily replaced. The rest of the workforce should toe the line and only ask for what your mates are able to get in the open market.
If your mates in the office are crucial to the company, they would never get rid of them. If your dedicated, highly-trained, long-hour working office staff fulfil some irreplaceable function, and management realise the role of that function you have nothing to worry about.
Fortunately you will be the last to go as those skills you talk about are not easily replaced. The rest of the workforce should toe the line and only ask for what your mates are able to get in the open market.
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Mates?
"The rest of the workforce should toe the line and only ask for what your mates are able to get in the open market."
Hmmmmmm Don't think he has too many now.
Hmmmmmm Don't think he has too many now.
Last edited by flying-spike; 6th Jul 2008 at 02:59. Reason: Added Quotation marks
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When fuel hits $150 Qantas will no longer be able to run as it does and the model will change and maybe it will no longer require many peoples services.
Alot of people are doing it tough now, but all the engineers have really done is stopped working O/T. Oh, and did you know the 4hr stoppages are because Qantas wouldn't let their union have feedback meetings on the base, and the company chooses to dock them 4hrs pay regardless of how long a meeting actually takes place for, so would you go back to work before that 4hrs was up and work for nothing...really.
Did you know that the engineers can't take leave to spend time with thieir families, are getting their pays docked, are being harassed by management, and are actually working harder now than ever to do their jobs using the system put in place by that management, they are just tired of trying to make a broken system work, and are tired of trying to highlight that to an ignorant management.
Have you heard of the XPT clause, overtime bank and many other things included in the EBA that are meant to erode working conditions. These are also the reasons why the EBA was rejected by the engineers.
This is so much bigger than 5% in the broader picture, it's about quality of life. Look if you are happy with 3%, fine, I hope you got it, but when someone asks for more, think of why first before speaking.
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Inandout, if the cost of fuel hits $150 or higher it will make little difference to the company what the engineers got in terms of a pay rise...... although you must bear in mind that with the sell off of the frequent flyer programme they will have covered their fuel bill for the next year, and payed themselves a nice juicy bonus to boot. Dixon coming out and stating that "executive wages have been frozen" is a nothing statement. As someone has already pointed out, they all just recieved a raise in December. The Qantas unions should be calling for a bonus freeze. Now that would cetrainly be interesting.
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inandout
I understand many in the work force have received more than 3%,
however that does not justify Engineers getting more than their fellow workers at Qantas who got 3 %.
Seeing there's nothing to do now during this truce? period,
I might as well feed the troll too. He could even re-name this
thread "FEED THE TROLL" for more hits.
http://www.asu.asn.au/data_man/qantasunions/index.htm
ALL qantas workers are behind the lame claim,
ALL qantas workers should be getting more than 3%
Like most QF policy, the 3% policy should be scrapped.
I understand many in the work force have received more than 3%,
however that does not justify Engineers getting more than their fellow workers at Qantas who got 3 %.
Seeing there's nothing to do now during this truce? period,
I might as well feed the troll too. He could even re-name this
thread "FEED THE TROLL" for more hits.
http://www.asu.asn.au/data_man/qantasunions/index.htm
ALL qantas workers are behind the lame claim,
ALL qantas workers should be getting more than 3%
Like most QF policy, the 3% policy should be scrapped.
Sprucegoose
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Why should they get 5% when most others in the company only get 3 %
Where I work we recently got 4% over 3 years, along with two seperate additional increases of $5000 and $10,000 respectively!
These increases recognise the considerable increase in the cost of living and recognition of skills.
however that does not justify Engineers getting more than their fellow workers at Qantas who got 3 %.
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oh FFS
inandout
Is the work that you do at Q directly related to safety ?
will people die if you stuff up ?
All organisations requires various skills, but those who are directly responsible for safety issues should always get paid more than others.
So, I have no problem with LAMEs, pilots, doctors, nurses, et all, being paid (very) well.
And as has been stated many times already, the execs get very hefty bonuses that far exceed the rate of inflation.
A pox on you.
Is the work that you do at Q directly related to safety ?
will people die if you stuff up ?
All organisations requires various skills, but those who are directly responsible for safety issues should always get paid more than others.
So, I have no problem with LAMEs, pilots, doctors, nurses, et all, being paid (very) well.
And as has been stated many times already, the execs get very hefty bonuses that far exceed the rate of inflation.
A pox on you.
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Dixon bangs on about creating 6-8000 new jobs...........where are they? Certainly not at the bloody coal face. Engineering has gone backwards by around 600jobs in recent years. Gawd knows how many in catering/porters/ground equip staff etc have been lost.
Way too many analysts, number crunchers and middle managament. Like ice on a ship; too top heavy and bound to capsize eventually.
We need a good cull to save the company and keep it the right way up..........
D4
Way too many analysts, number crunchers and middle managament. Like ice on a ship; too top heavy and bound to capsize eventually.
We need a good cull to save the company and keep it the right way up..........
D4
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I've an "office job" @ Qantas and on retrenchment notice.
Like said on the other thread, I've also been doing stuff outside/above my award for a few years and not paid for it. Accepted it as was not in a position like ALAEA members.
Looking at the Careers One site at the minimum average wage for my award position, I'm about 12% lower than THE MINIMUM.
I hope LAME's, you get your 5%.
Shrug.
Like said on the other thread, I've also been doing stuff outside/above my award for a few years and not paid for it. Accepted it as was not in a position like ALAEA members.
Looking at the Careers One site at the minimum average wage for my award position, I'm about 12% lower than THE MINIMUM.
I hope LAME's, you get your 5%.
Shrug.