ATPL Flight Planning Tricks, Short Cuts etc
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Just passed the Flight Planning exam!! Found many of the hits and advice in this thread useful
Cheers Guys.
I started with the hard questions first, basically worked backwards through the exam. Thought this worked well as by the time you get near the end and you have had enough after over 2 n half hours you only have little 1-2 markers left! You do have to work relatively fast as the 3 hours goes quick, the time allocations per questions posted in this thread work quite well.
The most import advice on this exam is to just do the work. After learning the material I spent an extra 1 and a half weeks just completeing practice exams and it paid off.
Good luck to anyone else sitting the exam.
Shadow.
Cheers Guys.I started with the hard questions first, basically worked backwards through the exam. Thought this worked well as by the time you get near the end and you have had enough after over 2 n half hours you only have little 1-2 markers left! You do have to work relatively fast as the 3 hours goes quick, the time allocations per questions posted in this thread work quite well.
The most import advice on this exam is to just do the work. After learning the material I spent an extra 1 and a half weeks just completeing practice exams and it paid off.
Good luck to anyone else sitting the exam.
Shadow.
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I have just received the AFT course notes and started studying for Flight Planning and am quickly beginning to realise that it may just be better to go up and do the course...Before I make this decision I was just wondering what a realistic time-frame would be for self-studying...how long did it take you? I'm working 4 days a week so I'm thinking it may take a while before I'm up to testing standard! Cheers, P 
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Have seen lots on this thread about SGR approximations etc but what I'm really having trouble with is getting the GSpeeds accurate enough. By the time I've combined the RSWT, the wind computer and the tracks. I always seem to be a few knots different on GS from the AFT model answers which is giving me the wrong zone fuel and throwing the final answer out. Anyone else having trouble with winds and any tips in this department?
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I'm currently studying this subject, and am very glad I found this thread.
I haven't got all the way through yet, I'm currently doing the CP and PNR examples, and was wondering if anyone could answer a question for me (actually, I'll probably end up asking a lot of questions, but we'll start with this one!).
For some questions, I've noticed they don't bother putting in the crosswind-caused headwind component (probably because it isn't very significant), but at other times they do (even if it's just 2 kt, which is what I've worked it out to be at times when they don't include it). So my question is - is there a guideline to follow to figure out if the crosswind-caused headwind component is big enough to mention on the flightplan (and therefore adjust the groundspeed)?
Also, just as a side question, I followed what people said to expect for question topics, and figure that there'll be a few CP and PNR questions in the depressurised and 1 engine in-op configurations, but are questions on gear down scenarios and inoperative yaw damper common?
Thanks!
I haven't got all the way through yet, I'm currently doing the CP and PNR examples, and was wondering if anyone could answer a question for me (actually, I'll probably end up asking a lot of questions, but we'll start with this one!).
For some questions, I've noticed they don't bother putting in the crosswind-caused headwind component (probably because it isn't very significant), but at other times they do (even if it's just 2 kt, which is what I've worked it out to be at times when they don't include it). So my question is - is there a guideline to follow to figure out if the crosswind-caused headwind component is big enough to mention on the flightplan (and therefore adjust the groundspeed)?
Also, just as a side question, I followed what people said to expect for question topics, and figure that there'll be a few CP and PNR questions in the depressurised and 1 engine in-op configurations, but are questions on gear down scenarios and inoperative yaw damper common?
Thanks!
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Syd - Mel Gear down, maintenance ferry flight is a common question. Also think about failed gear retraction, subsequent hold to burn fuel and return to land type questions.
Get a pack of multi coloured highlighters and every time you do a practice question use a different colour on that route. There are only so many city pairs that they can use and you will see similar ones in the exam to the AFT practice questions.
My advise on order of questions is to start with two 1 mark questions to calm the nerves, then do a big question, then to rest the brain come back to another 1 mark, then back to the another big one and so on.
I have taught this front/back method of attempting the questions for a while and it seems to work for most people. As it helps to stop you getting bogged down in the big ones if you try them first or running out of time if you leave them until last.
The best piece of advice is to develop a process and use it the same way for every practice question you do. Be very neat and write all the numbers down as you go on your flight plan, even for the 1 markers do a line on the flight plan. If you try to do it all on the calculator and your answer doesn't match theirs then you have nothing to check or go over if you haven’t neatly written it all down. You have pages of flight plans so use them!
Get a pack of multi coloured highlighters and every time you do a practice question use a different colour on that route. There are only so many city pairs that they can use and you will see similar ones in the exam to the AFT practice questions.
My advise on order of questions is to start with two 1 mark questions to calm the nerves, then do a big question, then to rest the brain come back to another 1 mark, then back to the another big one and so on.
I have taught this front/back method of attempting the questions for a while and it seems to work for most people. As it helps to stop you getting bogged down in the big ones if you try them first or running out of time if you leave them until last.
The best piece of advice is to develop a process and use it the same way for every practice question you do. Be very neat and write all the numbers down as you go on your flight plan, even for the 1 markers do a line on the flight plan. If you try to do it all on the calculator and your answer doesn't match theirs then you have nothing to check or go over if you haven’t neatly written it all down. You have pages of flight plans so use them!
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The biggest issue for me in Flight Planning was having enough time to finish all the questions. If you can get familiar with the type of calculator ASL uses, especially in terms of using the memory store and recall functions, this will help to save time, as well as reduce the chances of keying errors. I believe AFT sells these calculators on their online shop for this exact reason.
From memory if the Xwind correction for GS is less than 5 knots don't worry. If it's more then factor it in.
Remember with the gear down stuff to add the penalties for climb and descent! You will get a gear down question, an engine failure and diversion from 1500 feet, at least 2 PNRs, and an ETP (remember the ETP always moves into wind and the wind is always from the west, if only one answer moves into wind, then that is the one! Just make sure you check if the answer is the distance from departure or destination, this can catch you out!)
Practice practice practice, flight planning is not hard, just make sure you are methodical and practice practice practice!
Remember with the gear down stuff to add the penalties for climb and descent! You will get a gear down question, an engine failure and diversion from 1500 feet, at least 2 PNRs, and an ETP (remember the ETP always moves into wind and the wind is always from the west, if only one answer moves into wind, then that is the one! Just make sure you check if the answer is the distance from departure or destination, this can catch you out!)
Practice practice practice, flight planning is not hard, just make sure you are methodical and practice practice practice!
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The biggest issue for me in Flight Planning was having enough time to finish all the questions.
Also, spend just a few moments in a relaxed state and read the question find out just exactly what it is they want. I found myself working a question all the way through only to find out I had answered it after the first couple of calcs. ie keep going back a make sure you know what it is they want.
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So stoked to see this thread revived. It was this very thread and the people I met through it which got me through the crucible that is Flight Planning.
I could not (and still cannot) help but correct for Effective TAS but I found that this always under two knots in Air Speed and three knots in GS (the difference between the two comes in rounding I've decided). Unless you are super retentive you shouldn't worry about it (likewise I found that calculating TAS I was always between 1 and 1.5 knots faster than the published answer as well as the Flight-Computer derived answer).
Long live AFPL; CASA's most positive contribution to the safety of air navigation.
FRQ CB
is there a guideline to follow to figure out if the crosswind-caused headwind component is big enough to mention on the flightplan
Long live AFPL; CASA's most positive contribution to the safety of air navigation.
FRQ CB
Using a whizz wheel with the sliding bit of metal in it, the E6B, for your wind calculations will help.
It does the ETAS calculation for you, because the lines are curved.This way it's never an extra calculation, and by always having it done, theres never a question of when you should use it, or when you should not.
You'll still need a Jeppesen CR computer for the Mach number and temperature calculations, but you can take both into the exam.
Most of the time, for some reason, doing the exact same problem on both computers will give you two answers one knot apart. That's close enough, it doesnt matter which one you use.
It does the ETAS calculation for you, because the lines are curved.This way it's never an extra calculation, and by always having it done, theres never a question of when you should use it, or when you should not.
You'll still need a Jeppesen CR computer for the Mach number and temperature calculations, but you can take both into the exam.
Most of the time, for some reason, doing the exact same problem on both computers will give you two answers one knot apart. That's close enough, it doesnt matter which one you use.
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Yeah, I know, I'm dredging up the thread again! Sat the exam for the first time earlier this week, so I wanted to say thanks for the advice given to me, and also hand out some.
My exam had 17 questions: 2 one-markers, 1 four-marker, 3 five-markers, and the rest were 2 & 3 markers (can't remember how many of each, sorry!). When I did practice exams, for the first one I went through the harder questions first, then did the rest, but for other practice exams I just went through all the questions in order, and I found I liked that way better, so that's how I handled the actual exam. Guess it depends on personal preference! I spent a bit of time memorising the distances between the usual suspects (eg Bris - Mel 764nm), and would you believe it - none of them came up!
One thing that I will warn you about: the missing distances that would normally be found on TAC charts and provided to the exam sitter, were also sometimes missing off the exam question (eg. Melbourne to Canty). Happening once I would understand, but three times I thought was a bit slack! I just used my trusty dividers to guesstimate the distances, and luckily it seemed to have worked out, as I ended up over-excelling by 30%.
Good luck to anyone else sitting!
My exam had 17 questions: 2 one-markers, 1 four-marker, 3 five-markers, and the rest were 2 & 3 markers (can't remember how many of each, sorry!). When I did practice exams, for the first one I went through the harder questions first, then did the rest, but for other practice exams I just went through all the questions in order, and I found I liked that way better, so that's how I handled the actual exam. Guess it depends on personal preference! I spent a bit of time memorising the distances between the usual suspects (eg Bris - Mel 764nm), and would you believe it - none of them came up!
One thing that I will warn you about: the missing distances that would normally be found on TAC charts and provided to the exam sitter, were also sometimes missing off the exam question (eg. Melbourne to Canty). Happening once I would understand, but three times I thought was a bit slack! I just used my trusty dividers to guesstimate the distances, and luckily it seemed to have worked out, as I ended up over-excelling by 30%.
Good luck to anyone else sitting!
Originally Posted by roxy
How does ATPL flight planning compare to CPL flight planning/operations?
Does it even compare?
Does it even compare?
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Roxy, CPL flight planning/operations, from what I can remember, actually had some useful stuff.
ATPL flight planning is all about preparing a fuel plan that no-one actually uses in real life (even the remaining B727 operators) and certainly don't prepare in the way the subject is examined.
It is a purely theoretical exercise that can be happily forgotten immediately once the exam is passed. It has absolutely no practical application.
Roxy, just seen your further question. I have had friends who have self-studied it successfully. However, they had supportive partners who allowed them to have time during the evening to study. When I tried to self-study I hit a brick wall and in the end I had to go to AFT and do the course there.
You do learn a lot of exam tricks by going there which you don't get in the notes. It is also a great place to network. The rest of the subjects can be self-studied satisfactorily with possible exception of Systems.
ATPL flight planning is all about preparing a fuel plan that no-one actually uses in real life (even the remaining B727 operators) and certainly don't prepare in the way the subject is examined.
It is a purely theoretical exercise that can be happily forgotten immediately once the exam is passed. It has absolutely no practical application.
Roxy, just seen your further question. I have had friends who have self-studied it successfully. However, they had supportive partners who allowed them to have time during the evening to study. When I tried to self-study I hit a brick wall and in the end I had to go to AFT and do the course there.
You do learn a lot of exam tricks by going there which you don't get in the notes. It is also a great place to network. The rest of the subjects can be self-studied satisfactorily with possible exception of Systems.
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I did the AFT Flight Planning course by self-study and missed out on my first attempt, but passed on my second. So yes, it can be done.
It's probably the hardest of all exams you'll ever do, not so much because of the content, but because you'll be under the pump right from the start to get all questions done accurately. Good luck with it all!
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Just study as hard as you can for the Flight Planning. Know where to find stuff in your B727 manual.
I sat planning years ago and found it very difficult - failed. I was offered a job on the venerable B727 a few years ago and flew the old girl for two and a half years and loved every moment of it.
Finished my ATP's last year with AFT and found flight planning just as hard as when I first sat it many years ago. Having flown the 72 helped a little as a lot of figures were and are similar. Real aircraft we worked in Pounds and CASA work in Kilos. The CASA 727 extract is just part of the actual manual anyway.
Just forget about the aircraft - if it was based on an A320, A330, B737, B767 the technique for solving the problems remain the same, only the values change.
The method for calculating a PNR, for example, is the same no matter what aircraft you fly.
Also Flight Planning and Performance and Loading are seperate exams.
Good luck.
I sat planning years ago and found it very difficult - failed. I was offered a job on the venerable B727 a few years ago and flew the old girl for two and a half years and loved every moment of it.
Finished my ATP's last year with AFT and found flight planning just as hard as when I first sat it many years ago. Having flown the 72 helped a little as a lot of figures were and are similar. Real aircraft we worked in Pounds and CASA work in Kilos. The CASA 727 extract is just part of the actual manual anyway.
Just forget about the aircraft - if it was based on an A320, A330, B737, B767 the technique for solving the problems remain the same, only the values change.
The method for calculating a PNR, for example, is the same no matter what aircraft you fly.
Also Flight Planning and Performance and Loading are seperate exams.
Good luck.
Last edited by ozblackbox; 23rd Apr 2010 at 06:42.
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