ATPL Flight Planning Tricks, Short Cuts etc
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Yes, I got 26420 as well.
The M0.82 and FL310 data is the situation before the 1 engine inop state. It's useful data if the temperature is given as TAT and you need to find the ISA deviation from the M0.82 tables (which is not the case in this question because you were already given the ISA deviation as +10)
The M0.82 and FL310 data is the situation before the 1 engine inop state. It's useful data if the temperature is given as TAT and you need to find the ISA deviation from the M0.82 tables (which is not the case in this question because you were already given the ISA deviation as +10)
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Not got the 'Blue book' to hand, but in this type of question you will also need to consider direction of travel select an appropriate 1Einop cruise altitude from the hemispherical rules table as often two of the answers suggest an easterly direction and two suggest a westerly one. Although considered an abnormal op only depressurisation allows departure from the prescribed levels.
Remember the nearest answer may not always be correct.
Remember the nearest answer may not always be correct.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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thanks for the replies guys... probably interpolated into the wrong direction or something similarly silly. still at work unfortunately and don't have the book on me (although it feels like I know every page on a personal level by now) but there'll be another study night tonight and figuring out what I've done wrong.
Vince
Vince
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Interpolating this example step by step.
I had a bit of trouble with interpolation to begin with but it made sense after a while.
**This is how I do it, it seems to make sense to me perhaps someone else has a less confusing way of doing it.
I'd start by minusing the 65 tonne alt from the 70 tonne alt.
25500-27800= -2300
divide the -2300 by 5 (difference between 65 and 70)
multiply it by 3 (3 tonnes 68t-65t) = -1380
then add it to the lower 65 tonne altitude : -1380 + 27800 = 26420
I hope this helps.
**This is how I do it, it seems to make sense to me perhaps someone else has a less confusing way of doing it.
I'd start by minusing the 65 tonne alt from the 70 tonne alt.
25500-27800= -2300
divide the -2300 by 5 (difference between 65 and 70)
multiply it by 3 (3 tonnes 68t-65t) = -1380
then add it to the lower 65 tonne altitude : -1380 + 27800 = 26420
I hope this helps.
Thread Starter
Glad to see this thread is still alive and well, and most of all helping some people!!!
Ok, I feel rather rusty, BUT, in exam situations (when you are short of time) I'd take the 68 as being half way between the two values (70t @ +10 25500 and 65t @ +10 27800) and just weigh it to the heavier as it favors the heavier side. So a basic (25500 + 27800) / 2 = 26650 and then just favor the lower altitude because you are heavier, which in this case is 26400.
Or if you want to do it correctly just apply do
((25500 - 27800) / 5) * 3 + 27800
Which is 26420.
Either way works though the shortcut can put you in no-mans-land in an exam, so beware.
Also, make sure you read the question, it could quite well ask for the lowest allowable flight level, and given that you were flying 310, 260 would not be legal.
Haha, noticed Swift beat me to it posting the full interpolation method
Ok, I feel rather rusty, BUT, in exam situations (when you are short of time) I'd take the 68 as being half way between the two values (70t @ +10 25500 and 65t @ +10 27800) and just weigh it to the heavier as it favors the heavier side. So a basic (25500 + 27800) / 2 = 26650 and then just favor the lower altitude because you are heavier, which in this case is 26400.
Or if you want to do it correctly just apply do
((25500 - 27800) / 5) * 3 + 27800
Which is 26420.
Either way works though the shortcut can put you in no-mans-land in an exam, so beware.
Also, make sure you read the question, it could quite well ask for the lowest allowable flight level, and given that you were flying 310, 260 would not be legal.
Haha, noticed Swift beat me to it posting the full interpolation method
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Thanks Swift and WBB... I do cope with interpolation, just not with applying it into the right direction apparently 
Got the same by now. Was one of the last questions I did last night and must have hit a mental barrier. Thanks again for all the replies! Back to the books for more... hoping to sit it in 2 weeks!
Vince
Got the same by now. Was one of the last questions I did last night and must have hit a mental barrier. Thanks again for all the replies! Back to the books for more... hoping to sit it in 2 weeks!
Vince
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That really sounds encouraging 
... well, I'll hope for the best!
Anyway, kinda stuck on another question... PNR(OEI) this time. More procedural actually, I'm not quite sure what I'm expected to assume or approximate here! Would appreciate some enlightenment...
Flight AD-BN via T77 & Y340.
Ramp weight 76,600 kg, FOB @ startup 13,450 kg, Planned ETI 138min, FL - highest available, M0.79.
Assuming an engine failure at PNR(OEI), Distance AD to PNR(OEI) and FOB on landing at AD are
485 nm and 2677 kg
465 nm and 2664 kg
565 nm and 2664 kg
420 nm and 2650 kg
For a start, all my books seem to assume an in-flight calculation; this doesn't really look like in-flight, does it?? So do I have to plan climb & descent? Usually I wouldn't plan the descent for the PNR calculation as advised in the handbook, but in this case?
Thanks again.
Vince
... well, I'll hope for the best!Anyway, kinda stuck on another question... PNR(OEI) this time. More procedural actually, I'm not quite sure what I'm expected to assume or approximate here! Would appreciate some enlightenment...
Flight AD-BN via T77 & Y340.
Ramp weight 76,600 kg, FOB @ startup 13,450 kg, Planned ETI 138min, FL - highest available, M0.79.
Assuming an engine failure at PNR(OEI), Distance AD to PNR(OEI) and FOB on landing at AD are
485 nm and 2677 kg
465 nm and 2664 kg
565 nm and 2664 kg
420 nm and 2650 kg
For a start, all my books seem to assume an in-flight calculation; this doesn't really look like in-flight, does it?? So do I have to plan climb & descent? Usually I wouldn't plan the descent for the PNR calculation as advised in the handbook, but in this case?
Thanks again.
Vince
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Vince, yes this is a pre-flight planning question so when calculating your flight fuel available for the 1 Engine Inop PNR, make sure you include the 100 kg of taxi fuel. And yes, you plan for climb and cruise to the PNR under normal operations, then back to AD under 1 Engine Inop operations. You'll need to decide the FL to return on based on your GW at the PNR and also use hemispherical levels.
Flight Planning is a very interesting subjet, but IMHO, CASA makes it deliberately confusing.
Flight Planning is a very interesting subjet, but IMHO, CASA makes it deliberately confusing.
Thread Starter
Always read the question twice. In this case it tells you the fuel at startup, so subtract Taxi, work out climb, your MZW and PNR and return based at on the alt capability for 1-INOP and your return 1-INOP.
Thread Starter
I' heard of people cheating in exams (mainly law and IREX), but you're only cheating yourself! And if you get caught out, kiss all of your previous exam passes goodbye!
All it takes to pass these exams is some hard work, stop being LAZY, knuckle down and get it out of the way!
All it takes to pass these exams is some hard work, stop being LAZY, knuckle down and get it out of the way!
Thread Starter
Brissy, I missed out first shot, stings a bit, but just get back on the proverbial horse and keep at it, it's just a matter of getting your speed and accuracy up.
I actually went and sat performance, nav and systems and then revisited planning, with just under two weeks of solid study. Not sure if doing the others gave me a "fresh" mind, or if it would have been better to do the re-sit immediately, but it worked for me.
I don't think anyone will disagree with me here when I say this is the hardest exam you will sit (except maybe when you get to a type rating).
Don't give up hope mate. I've heard of a guy failing 7 times before he nailed it, who's now flying for an airline.
I actually went and sat performance, nav and systems and then revisited planning, with just under two weeks of solid study. Not sure if doing the others gave me a "fresh" mind, or if it would have been better to do the re-sit immediately, but it worked for me.
I don't think anyone will disagree with me here when I say this is the hardest exam you will sit (except maybe when you get to a type rating).
Don't give up hope mate. I've heard of a guy failing 7 times before he nailed it, who's now flying for an airline.
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Nice little money spinner for CASA and ASL.
$65 * 7 = $455 for CASA
$110 * 7 = $770 for ASL
even if everyone repeats only once theres someones wage for the year.
I wonder what the overheads are for these exam centres.
Anyhow I have to agree with biggles. Fresh mind, up the stamina and accuracy and you WILL get over the line.
I saw a guy once sitting FP while I was doing another exam, he had 2 cans of red bull, I don't know whether it helped him or not.
$65 * 7 = $455 for CASA
$110 * 7 = $770 for ASL
even if everyone repeats only once theres someones wage for the year.
I wonder what the overheads are for these exam centres.
Anyhow I have to agree with biggles. Fresh mind, up the stamina and accuracy and you WILL get over the line.
I saw a guy once sitting FP while I was doing another exam, he had 2 cans of red bull, I don't know whether it helped him or not.
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Shaun-356, as you know, the FP examiners have a large question bank from which they can extract questions and it would be somewhat difficult to remember the exact content of questions from the exam, given their length and complexity.
However, if you can get a hold of AFT's course, many of its exercises and practice exams are as close to the actual thing as you can obtain commercially on the open market.
However, if you can get a hold of AFT's course, many of its exercises and practice exams are as close to the actual thing as you can obtain commercially on the open market.
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MyNameIsIs,
"From memory the big questions are worth 4 or 5 marks, and are all toward the end- fun things like PNRs, ETPs etc.
Do these big mark ones first (and hopefully correctly). After the practice exams youll have an idea on how long each of these take- then allow yourself say 10-15 minutes per each of these. If you don't have the answer, move to the next one. Don't dwell on them if you are stuck, move on and come back little later.
Then work down through the lesser mark questions. It's more likely quicker and easier to discount and guess from a 1-2 mark question. Also, if you guess and get wrong a 5 marker as opposed to a 1-2 marker, the impact to your end result is a lot worse!
That's my tip!"
I dont agree with this, i did flight planning recently, took 2 shots at it....first time i did wat you said attempted the 4-5 markers first in order to get them out of the way, but what happened to me was that i was getting worried
i was spending so much time or i wasnt doing something right and it got me all nervous, once i was finished all the 4-5 markers i was in such a "blank" minded state that when i attempted teh first questions i was second guessing myself..
My point is that the first few qns (1,2,3 markers) are to get you in the stride of things, getting your brain working and firing, then you can attempt the big ones...thats how i passed the second time.
"From memory the big questions are worth 4 or 5 marks, and are all toward the end- fun things like PNRs, ETPs etc.
Do these big mark ones first (and hopefully correctly). After the practice exams youll have an idea on how long each of these take- then allow yourself say 10-15 minutes per each of these. If you don't have the answer, move to the next one. Don't dwell on them if you are stuck, move on and come back little later.
Then work down through the lesser mark questions. It's more likely quicker and easier to discount and guess from a 1-2 mark question. Also, if you guess and get wrong a 5 marker as opposed to a 1-2 marker, the impact to your end result is a lot worse!
That's my tip!"
I dont agree with this, i did flight planning recently, took 2 shots at it....first time i did wat you said attempted the 4-5 markers first in order to get them out of the way, but what happened to me was that i was getting worried
i was spending so much time or i wasnt doing something right and it got me all nervous, once i was finished all the 4-5 markers i was in such a "blank" minded state that when i attempted teh first questions i was second guessing myself..My point is that the first few qns (1,2,3 markers) are to get you in the stride of things, getting your brain working and firing, then you can attempt the big ones...thats how i passed the second time.
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From what I remember of the exam, the 5-markers contained a lot of data to weigh you down but the 2-3 markers were really nasty - these looked simple enough but usually harbour a very nasty sting in the tail - beware !