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QF/Jetstar treat staff & customers with contempt
A bit off topic,I apologize.
From Crikey.com
Qantas's illusory holidays. A Crikey tipster yesterday pointed out that the ever-consumer friendly Qantas (through its low-cost subsidiary Jetstar) had “recently cancelled the confirmed bookings of 5000 passengers traveling to Malaysia. Most of these 5000 booked during a May fare promotion when the price of oil was around $120.” Leaving aside the morality of the cancellations (most of the customers who were holiday makers would no doubt have purchased linking flights and booked hotels which cannot be cancelled without penalty), there is a basic contractual issue of whether such a move is legal. While Jetstar/Qantas would no doubt include a swathe of terms and conditions which allow it to cancel whatever flights it likes, there is a basic contractual principle that a contract cannot be illusory. That is, a party cannot enforce a contract upon which performance is optional. If Jetstar/Qantas is able to cancel flights simply because it feels like it (say, because the oil price goes up or Geoff Dixon catches a cold), then it would appear to be a somewhat illusory contract. While this doesn’t help the 5000 stranded holiday-makers, it may help a Jetstar/Qantas passenger who is trying to cancel a booking in the future.
While on the topic, Crikey has been informed that Jetstar is telling the 5000 jilted customers that they will receive their money back for the cancelled flights in 5-6 weeks. That means many customers may be unable to afford replacement flights and Jetstar/Qantas can profit from holding onto the cash for almost two months. -- Adam Schwab
From Crikey.com
Qantas's illusory holidays. A Crikey tipster yesterday pointed out that the ever-consumer friendly Qantas (through its low-cost subsidiary Jetstar) had “recently cancelled the confirmed bookings of 5000 passengers traveling to Malaysia. Most of these 5000 booked during a May fare promotion when the price of oil was around $120.” Leaving aside the morality of the cancellations (most of the customers who were holiday makers would no doubt have purchased linking flights and booked hotels which cannot be cancelled without penalty), there is a basic contractual issue of whether such a move is legal. While Jetstar/Qantas would no doubt include a swathe of terms and conditions which allow it to cancel whatever flights it likes, there is a basic contractual principle that a contract cannot be illusory. That is, a party cannot enforce a contract upon which performance is optional. If Jetstar/Qantas is able to cancel flights simply because it feels like it (say, because the oil price goes up or Geoff Dixon catches a cold), then it would appear to be a somewhat illusory contract. While this doesn’t help the 5000 stranded holiday-makers, it may help a Jetstar/Qantas passenger who is trying to cancel a booking in the future.
While on the topic, Crikey has been informed that Jetstar is telling the 5000 jilted customers that they will receive their money back for the cancelled flights in 5-6 weeks. That means many customers may be unable to afford replacement flights and Jetstar/Qantas can profit from holding onto the cash for almost two months. -- Adam Schwab
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It seems that Qantas are well practiced at cancelling things to Malaysia. TJK's planned SC2 at MAE was cancelled yesterday less than 24hrs before the support team were due to fly out. Seems things are not going too well at MAE.......TJU maybe? CASA Senate inquiry? Hmmmm...... I guess we will hear more in the future.
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Did that boy cry wolf again? Oh well, time will tell.
The oil price slips
by Michael Pascoe
posted on Jul 10 12:08pm
The oil price has fallen fairly solidly for two nights in a row in New York and there is suddenly no shortage of suggestions that it might have peaked, at least for the time being.
A seasoned energy industry executive once told me that, over time, the oil price will never be as good as you hope, or as bad as you fear. For most of this year, it's looked as if he was wrong.
But how quickly worms can turn, or oil prices slip, or maybe just our hopes can get ahead of themselves. The oil price has fallen fairly solidly for two nights in a row in New York and there is suddenly no shortage of suggestions that it might have peaked, at least for the time being.
If you have enough grey hair to remember these things, it tends to be the way that when the popular press is most full of hysteria about any financial market and the politicians are tying themselves in knots over the perceived crisis, the market itself will calm down. As the oil panic has grown in recent weeks, just such a calming period has been overdue.
(I'm tempted to write something about "pouring oil on troubled waters" here...but what can you pour on troubled oil?)
The ease with which oil has retreated about US$10 in two sessions is a small indication of just how much speculative froth there is in the market.
The US Energy Information Agency report overnight that American oil consumption would be down by about 400,000 barrels a day this year underlines how the market mechanism eventually works - put up the price of something enough and less of it will be purchased.
Perhaps typical of the latest wave of commentary is this by MarketWatch.com's Jim Jelter:
Hear that buzz in the commodities market? That's the sound of a cloud of engorged locusts lifting from the crude-oil pit.
The swarm started stirring Monday. By Tuesday, oil prices were down $10 a barrel - their steepest two-day drop since March. Their flight helps explain how oil got to $145 in the first place and throws the door wide open to a mass exodus from one of the hottest market plays of the year.
But even casual observers have been scratching their heads over oil's doubling in price over the past year....
Supportive market fundamentals
Investors, like locusts, are opportunistic. They also move in swarms, descending on whatever is unprotected and likely to yield a bountiful harvest. This time around, hedge funds are widely blamed for leading the commodities frenzy, hiding behind what analysts call "supportive market fundamentals" while whipping up prices to the breaking point. Today's action, with August crude futures down as much as $6 a barrel at $135.14 on the Nymex, sends a strong signal that there's not much upside left to this market (at least for now).
When the swarm moves on, as it now appears to be doing, it leaves behind the stubble that more closely reflects the market's true fundamentals, perhaps even leaving it oversold.
Which, of course, is the perfect time to sow the seeds of the next cycle.
We know oil is never going to be cheap again, but there is every chance it has overshot its fundamental supply/demand over the past few months. It seems the market set itself a target of US$150 a barrel and was determined to get there ? but failing another supply shock somewhere around the world, the immediate chance might have passed.
I hope so. I forgot to fill up my tank on "Tight Tuesday".
by Michael Pascoe
posted on Jul 10 12:08pm
The oil price has fallen fairly solidly for two nights in a row in New York and there is suddenly no shortage of suggestions that it might have peaked, at least for the time being.
A seasoned energy industry executive once told me that, over time, the oil price will never be as good as you hope, or as bad as you fear. For most of this year, it's looked as if he was wrong.
But how quickly worms can turn, or oil prices slip, or maybe just our hopes can get ahead of themselves. The oil price has fallen fairly solidly for two nights in a row in New York and there is suddenly no shortage of suggestions that it might have peaked, at least for the time being.
If you have enough grey hair to remember these things, it tends to be the way that when the popular press is most full of hysteria about any financial market and the politicians are tying themselves in knots over the perceived crisis, the market itself will calm down. As the oil panic has grown in recent weeks, just such a calming period has been overdue.
(I'm tempted to write something about "pouring oil on troubled waters" here...but what can you pour on troubled oil?)
The ease with which oil has retreated about US$10 in two sessions is a small indication of just how much speculative froth there is in the market.
The US Energy Information Agency report overnight that American oil consumption would be down by about 400,000 barrels a day this year underlines how the market mechanism eventually works - put up the price of something enough and less of it will be purchased.
Perhaps typical of the latest wave of commentary is this by MarketWatch.com's Jim Jelter:
Hear that buzz in the commodities market? That's the sound of a cloud of engorged locusts lifting from the crude-oil pit.
The swarm started stirring Monday. By Tuesday, oil prices were down $10 a barrel - their steepest two-day drop since March. Their flight helps explain how oil got to $145 in the first place and throws the door wide open to a mass exodus from one of the hottest market plays of the year.
But even casual observers have been scratching their heads over oil's doubling in price over the past year....
Supportive market fundamentals
Investors, like locusts, are opportunistic. They also move in swarms, descending on whatever is unprotected and likely to yield a bountiful harvest. This time around, hedge funds are widely blamed for leading the commodities frenzy, hiding behind what analysts call "supportive market fundamentals" while whipping up prices to the breaking point. Today's action, with August crude futures down as much as $6 a barrel at $135.14 on the Nymex, sends a strong signal that there's not much upside left to this market (at least for now).
When the swarm moves on, as it now appears to be doing, it leaves behind the stubble that more closely reflects the market's true fundamentals, perhaps even leaving it oversold.
Which, of course, is the perfect time to sow the seeds of the next cycle.
We know oil is never going to be cheap again, but there is every chance it has overshot its fundamental supply/demand over the past few months. It seems the market set itself a target of US$150 a barrel and was determined to get there ? but failing another supply shock somewhere around the world, the immediate chance might have passed.
I hope so. I forgot to fill up my tank on "Tight Tuesday".
Last edited by Acute Instinct; 10th Jul 2008 at 21:16.
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LOTW
Lordofthewings.
Your dumb "Robin Hood" attitude is part of the reason we are in the sh+t situation with these EBA's and the Grading sytem we are paid under. If a guy has been at it doing exams for years and has the ratings, pay him!!
The name of the game is not to drag people down, but to try and get the young blokes (and girls) trained up experienced and paid for the job that they will do. It is better for everyone in long run including the airline.
If you meet someone who HAS succeeded in getting themselves a good paypacket don't whinge about them. It should be motivation to you to stick with your mates and push for training and SOE as well as a system that will allow more LAMEs to get what they should be paid for the specialised job we carry out.
I am at the top of the ladder by the way and I did not make $140K. I have mates in other industries that have done a fraction of the study I have done without having people's lives in there hands and they earn a lot more than I do. They cannot believe we are not paid a LOT more even at the top of our scale.
Stop being a baby, get it together and go forward with the rest of us. (I am assuming that you are an LAME). We need to get this won and get on with encouraging our younger Engineers to stick at it so the knowledge can be carried on and get them some decent pay for there expertice,. Not try and bring peolpe down.
End of rant.
The Boardman
PS. Off topic. Heard a rumour the Phantom P*sser was sighted in the city in Sydney a few weeks ago. What a legend! Go the Phantom!!
Your dumb "Robin Hood" attitude is part of the reason we are in the sh+t situation with these EBA's and the Grading sytem we are paid under. If a guy has been at it doing exams for years and has the ratings, pay him!!
The name of the game is not to drag people down, but to try and get the young blokes (and girls) trained up experienced and paid for the job that they will do. It is better for everyone in long run including the airline.
If you meet someone who HAS succeeded in getting themselves a good paypacket don't whinge about them. It should be motivation to you to stick with your mates and push for training and SOE as well as a system that will allow more LAMEs to get what they should be paid for the specialised job we carry out.
I am at the top of the ladder by the way and I did not make $140K. I have mates in other industries that have done a fraction of the study I have done without having people's lives in there hands and they earn a lot more than I do. They cannot believe we are not paid a LOT more even at the top of our scale.
Stop being a baby, get it together and go forward with the rest of us. (I am assuming that you are an LAME). We need to get this won and get on with encouraging our younger Engineers to stick at it so the knowledge can be carried on and get them some decent pay for there expertice,. Not try and bring peolpe down.
End of rant.
The Boardman
PS. Off topic. Heard a rumour the Phantom P*sser was sighted in the city in Sydney a few weeks ago. What a legend! Go the Phantom!!
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This has a familiar ring to it:
A man is flying in a hot air balloon and realizes he is lost. He reduces height and spots a man down below. He lowers the balloon further and shouts: "Excuse me, can you help me? I promised my friend I would meet him half an hour ago, but I don't know where I am."
The man below says: "Yes. You are in a hot air balloon, hovering approximately 30 feet above this field. You are between 40 and 42 degrees N. latitude, and between 58 and 60 degrees W. longitude."
"You must be an engineer," says the balloonist.
"I am," replies the man. "How did you know?"
"Well," says the balloonist, "everything you have told me is technically correct, but I have no idea what to make of your information, and the fact is I am still lost.
"The man below says, "You must be a manager."
"I am," replies the balloonist, "but how did you know?"
"Well," says the man, "you don't know where you are, or where you are going. You have made a promise which you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. The fact is you are in the exact same position you were in before we met, but now it is somehow my fault."
A man is flying in a hot air balloon and realizes he is lost. He reduces height and spots a man down below. He lowers the balloon further and shouts: "Excuse me, can you help me? I promised my friend I would meet him half an hour ago, but I don't know where I am."
The man below says: "Yes. You are in a hot air balloon, hovering approximately 30 feet above this field. You are between 40 and 42 degrees N. latitude, and between 58 and 60 degrees W. longitude."
"You must be an engineer," says the balloonist.
"I am," replies the man. "How did you know?"
"Well," says the balloonist, "everything you have told me is technically correct, but I have no idea what to make of your information, and the fact is I am still lost.
"The man below says, "You must be a manager."
"I am," replies the balloonist, "but how did you know?"
"Well," says the man, "you don't know where you are, or where you are going. You have made a promise which you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. The fact is you are in the exact same position you were in before we met, but now it is somehow my fault."
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I agree totally ampclamp
.
The one thing everyone is learning more and more of this management (as our PIA rolls on) is the extremely below board, low level of integrity everywhere. The lies, harrassment, bullying, hypocrisy all throughout the ranks is sickening. How can they ever fix this mess is beyond me as it is extremely rife.
. The one thing everyone is learning more and more of this management (as our PIA rolls on) is the extremely below board, low level of integrity everywhere. The lies, harrassment, bullying, hypocrisy all throughout the ranks is sickening. How can they ever fix this mess is beyond me as it is extremely rife.
Last edited by Ngineer; 11th Jul 2008 at 01:07.
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ballhopper, **edited....hmm he's gone.....Frozo style......hit and delete**
With ANOTHER wave of guys going across to TEAM-Hyundai, not to mention all the ame's next week, there's even less guys for the ageing 'Legacy' fleet.
Redundancies? only if they park ALL the Boeings permanently......which of course they are certain to do very soon, what with them flying everywhere almost FULL!!
F.U.D. from F.O.G.
So, what's happening around the traps....the flow of gossip seems to have slowed since the 'net' got bunged.......don't let them get a victory there......post dammit!!
BTW, must really pee them off that the hardware was in a certain 'young' managers locker.........kinda makes it hard to bring the castle down......
With ANOTHER wave of guys going across to TEAM-Hyundai, not to mention all the ame's next week, there's even less guys for the ageing 'Legacy' fleet.
Redundancies? only if they park ALL the Boeings permanently......which of course they are certain to do very soon, what with them flying everywhere almost FULL!!
F.U.D. from F.O.G.
So, what's happening around the traps....the flow of gossip seems to have slowed since the 'net' got bunged.......don't let them get a victory there......post dammit!!
BTW, must really pee them off that the hardware was in a certain 'young' managers locker.........kinda makes it hard to bring the castle down......
Last edited by F.O.G.; 11th Jul 2008 at 04:21.
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Building a case
I have family who are...let's just say...quite educated in legal matters and I was telling them about the recent tactics of Qantas management. I was given some very good advice on a few matters. The main one being....
If you are dragged into an office for a one on one with your manager (and possibly a HR representative) and instructed that you are "required" to work back on o/t against your wishes, whether you decide to give a reason as to why you can't stay back or not, if you are threatened with loss of pay for engaging in PIA, get them to PUT IT IN WRITING AND SIGN IT!!!!!!!!!!
Also you should record the time/date or the meeting, any other relevant details, and you are totally within your rights (and Qantas policy) to take notes on what is said during the meeting (I have been told that they have been doing this)
This information can possibly be used after the PIA is over to build a case against what could then well be some very nervous managers (or ex-managers)
If you are dragged into an office for a one on one with your manager (and possibly a HR representative) and instructed that you are "required" to work back on o/t against your wishes, whether you decide to give a reason as to why you can't stay back or not, if you are threatened with loss of pay for engaging in PIA, get them to PUT IT IN WRITING AND SIGN IT!!!!!!!!!!
Also you should record the time/date or the meeting, any other relevant details, and you are totally within your rights (and Qantas policy) to take notes on what is said during the meeting (I have been told that they have been doing this)
This information can possibly be used after the PIA is over to build a case against what could then well be some very nervous managers (or ex-managers)
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If you are dragged into an office for a one on one with your manager (and possibly a HR representative) and instructed that you are "required" to work back on o/t against your wishes, whether you decide to give a reason as to why you can't stay back or not, if you are threatened with loss of pay for engaging in PIA, get them to PUT IT IN WRITING AND SIGN IT!!!!!!!!!!
Also you should record the time/date or the meeting, any other relevant details, and you are totally within your rights (and Qantas policy) to take notes on what is said during the meeting (I have been told that they have been doing this)
This information can possibly be used after the PIA is over to build a case against what could then well be some very nervous managers (or ex-managers)
Also you should record the time/date or the meeting, any other relevant details, and you are totally within your rights (and Qantas policy) to take notes on what is said during the meeting (I have been told that they have been doing this)
This information can possibly be used after the PIA is over to build a case against what could then well be some very nervous managers (or ex-managers)
You are within your rights to do so.
Don't let them bully us.
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or even better, just tell them you'll be recording the meeting and then once recorder is on speak the names of all those present. Most phones can do it these days....called a voice message!!
I believe they have no choice if one of the parties present, ie you, wants to record the meeting.
ready to be corrected if I'm off the mark.
I believe they have no choice if one of the parties present, ie you, wants to record the meeting.
ready to be corrected if I'm off the mark.
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I was also told of another analogy that is also pretty accurate.
The Qantas management tree is like a tree full of monkeys.
When the monkeys on top look down, all they “think” they see are cute smiling faces looking up.
When the monkeys below look up, all they actually see are a bunch of monkey’s ass-holes.
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How to get rid of staff cheap.
It is obvious now that managements plan to “get LAME’s to quit without their entitled redundancy money” has failed.
I have another plan that will get rid of staff and require no CR/VR payments.
I have another plan that will get rid of staff and require no CR/VR payments.
- Do NOT renew any of the “2 year contracts” that all the “so called” managers are on. They are then all gone at no expense to the business. A byproduct of this will be staff moral goes through the roof.
- Promote permanent staff LAME’s to 2 year contract managers. Those LAMEs are now off the books at no cost to the company.
- Repeat step 1 in 2 years time.
- Repeat step 2 in 2 years time
- Keep repeating until, “hey presto” all staff gone and no VR given.
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some more legal advice
I understand quite a few guys who were hauled in and told to do overtime under threat of losing pay for engaging in industrial action felt too ill to attend work the very next day, knowing they would again be asked to stay back against their wishes.
I've been told that if this is the case it is very important to discuss your situation and level of stress with your doctor and have the wording "patient displays symptoms of a high level of stress" included with any other ailment on your doctors certificate.
I have it on very good authority that if all information arising from these "meetings" is documented, signed by your manager, and any subsequent sick forms include the word stress, you would only be placed in the same situation again by a spectacularly foolish manager...or one who is prepared to lose their house.
I've been told that if this is the case it is very important to discuss your situation and level of stress with your doctor and have the wording "patient displays symptoms of a high level of stress" included with any other ailment on your doctors certificate.
I have it on very good authority that if all information arising from these "meetings" is documented, signed by your manager, and any subsequent sick forms include the word stress, you would only be placed in the same situation again by a spectacularly foolish manager...or one who is prepared to lose their house.