Qantas Pay
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I've got some idea of the conditions, but I'm afraid to ask any more details lest some people here accuse me of wanting to live some kind of champagne lifestyle.
International Trader suggested that I should not be consdering rather base things like income and that I should be doing it solely for the passion. Doesn't really put food on the table, though, does it?
Honestly, up until now I haven't really had a firm grip on what SOs, FOs and captains get paid for any airline. My current employer doesn't do RPT (or charter, or pvt for that matter), so I'm a bit ignorant when it comes to airline remuneration.
Thanks for the link to PPJN. I've not seen it before.
What colour's your horse?
International Trader suggested that I should not be consdering rather base things like income and that I should be doing it solely for the passion. Doesn't really put food on the table, though, does it?
Honestly, up until now I haven't really had a firm grip on what SOs, FOs and captains get paid for any airline. My current employer doesn't do RPT (or charter, or pvt for that matter), so I'm a bit ignorant when it comes to airline remuneration.
Thanks for the link to PPJN. I've not seen it before.
What colour's your horse?
Nunc est bibendum
Have you tried a search of these forums? A quick search of 'qantas commuting' shows up these two threads:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=300892
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=249181
A quick search of a few other terms shows this thread:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=302253
Do a search for any of my posts with term pilots, or techies, or rates, or rate, or commute and you'll find more threads.
Playing the victim won't get you too far at interview! 
In case you're thinking of taking the moral high ground and claiming that you weren't being a victim then et me give you a some free advice. If you're not being a victim with this statement then you are certainly being overly precious. Either way your comments show why you have some critical self evaluation to do before you come up for a Qantas psych test and interview.
When communicating with others, if the other party didn't get the message exactly as I wanted then that is generally MY problem! When that occurs it's my place to apologise for not being clear enough with my style and tone and to make the necessary correction. Failing to admit that I made the stuff up in the first instance and instead trying to tell others that they're the ones in the wrong is not a trait that works well in life in general but especially on a flight deck. So think very seriously about how you are approaching your potential future colleagues Surditas. Being able to admit you're wrong- (or at least potentially wrong) without having to let you dig a very deep hole so that it's obvious beyond all doubt- is a trait I want in a fellow crew member.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=300892
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=249181
A quick search of a few other terms shows this thread:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=302253
Do a search for any of my posts with term pilots, or techies, or rates, or rate, or commute and you'll find more threads.
...but I'm afraid to ask any more details lest some people here accuse me of wanting to live some kind of champagne lifestyle.
In case you're thinking of taking the moral high ground and claiming that you weren't being a victim then et me give you a some free advice. If you're not being a victim with this statement then you are certainly being overly precious. Either way your comments show why you have some critical self evaluation to do before you come up for a Qantas psych test and interview. When communicating with others, if the other party didn't get the message exactly as I wanted then that is generally MY problem! When that occurs it's my place to apologise for not being clear enough with my style and tone and to make the necessary correction. Failing to admit that I made the stuff up in the first instance and instead trying to tell others that they're the ones in the wrong is not a trait that works well in life in general but especially on a flight deck. So think very seriously about how you are approaching your potential future colleagues Surditas. Being able to admit you're wrong- (or at least potentially wrong) without having to let you dig a very deep hole so that it's obvious beyond all doubt- is a trait I want in a fellow crew member.
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Surditas
Believe it or not I am one of your best friends in this thread.
I am one of the few who has taken the time to give you some help to maybe get you that position or others that you may wish to be "considered" for.
Sure it's "tough love" but you would get plenty of that sort in QF, and then some.
If you don't listen well maybe others will see something in what I say.
The competition for a QF job will always be very tough. If you made a bad impression with me, I can assure you that others in employment departments will come to a similar conclusion. How do I know this? I have recently left that very area.
No time for tears, my advice is free and you now have the chance to think over your approach to the QF interview process, "IF" the process should ever be offered to you.
The process is extensive and designed to vet out all except the person that the company believes is the person they want. That word "impression" comes to mind again.
By the way, QF currently put cadets with 250 odd hours in the very position that you will seek in 18 mths time. If you have been flying in GA for 20 years( and I assume you mean that you have been flying commercially in GA for 20 years), I would also prepare answers as to why it took you 21 1/2 years to decide that you wanted to be a QF pilot instead of at year 1( or earlier). Sounds like I talk sh-t to you ? Well maybe you are not the sort of person they are looking for. Remember, they are ones with the jobs to give.
As for salary, do you think that a company like QF would not pay you enough to live a reasonable existance? Unless you have a plum job in GA ( in which case you are grossly over qualified for the job) the salary will generally be equal or more that any GA salary.
Of course the position has generally been offered to people in their twenties not their forties as you should be if you have be flying in GA for 20 years.
You could have been in a command position now if you wanted to be a Qantas pilot 20 years ago.
Comments like "I have to be sure that I adequately provide for my children, home, etc" are important to you. They should be but, should this be important to a company that is only looking for someone that "THEY" consider to be the best in the field?
Don't get angry, get even and show that you can get the job.
Believe it or not I am one of your best friends in this thread.
I am one of the few who has taken the time to give you some help to maybe get you that position or others that you may wish to be "considered" for.
Sure it's "tough love" but you would get plenty of that sort in QF, and then some.
If you don't listen well maybe others will see something in what I say.
The competition for a QF job will always be very tough. If you made a bad impression with me, I can assure you that others in employment departments will come to a similar conclusion. How do I know this? I have recently left that very area.
No time for tears, my advice is free and you now have the chance to think over your approach to the QF interview process, "IF" the process should ever be offered to you.
The process is extensive and designed to vet out all except the person that the company believes is the person they want. That word "impression" comes to mind again.
By the way, QF currently put cadets with 250 odd hours in the very position that you will seek in 18 mths time. If you have been flying in GA for 20 years( and I assume you mean that you have been flying commercially in GA for 20 years), I would also prepare answers as to why it took you 21 1/2 years to decide that you wanted to be a QF pilot instead of at year 1( or earlier). Sounds like I talk sh-t to you ? Well maybe you are not the sort of person they are looking for. Remember, they are ones with the jobs to give.
As for salary, do you think that a company like QF would not pay you enough to live a reasonable existance? Unless you have a plum job in GA ( in which case you are grossly over qualified for the job) the salary will generally be equal or more that any GA salary.
Of course the position has generally been offered to people in their twenties not their forties as you should be if you have be flying in GA for 20 years.
You could have been in a command position now if you wanted to be a Qantas pilot 20 years ago.
Comments like "I have to be sure that I adequately provide for my children, home, etc" are important to you. They should be but, should this be important to a company that is only looking for someone that "THEY" consider to be the best in the field?
Don't get angry, get even and show that you can get the job.
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QF pay is a disgrace.I have been in the company for over 11 years now and my salary is nowhere near what it should be.The gross pay may be at an industry standard but after tax it is an absolute joke.Just had my EK interview.Waiting on the result.Im out.Moral is another whole topic but I won't even bother to start on that one.
Seriously, this is BS! 
Personally I thought that pilots could read.
Take five minutes to read through this thread (less time than it took you write your post). Most of your questions regarding pay and conditions will be answered. Keg has even done the searching for you and given you links to the relevant threads. I posted a direct link to a website that lists the payscales. What more do you want?
Regarding the SO/ FO thing, everyone starts as an SO.
Personally I thought that pilots could read.
Take five minutes to read through this thread (less time than it took you write your post). Most of your questions regarding pay and conditions will be answered. Keg has even done the searching for you and given you links to the relevant threads. I posted a direct link to a website that lists the payscales. What more do you want?
Regarding the SO/ FO thing, everyone starts as an SO.
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OK so roughly speaking its 80, 90, 100K for 1st, 2nd 3rd yr S/O respectively.
Since my GA salary never threatened such lofty heights and given that I am not a taxation guru, how does that equate to a fortnightly take home pay packet- roughly speaking of course...
Since my GA salary never threatened such lofty heights and given that I am not a taxation guru, how does that equate to a fortnightly take home pay packet- roughly speaking of course...
Nunc est bibendum
Strewth, talk about spoon feeding!
Australian Tax rates can be found in a number of places:
http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/co...tent/12333.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_Australia
Some quick back of the envelope maths shows that $75K will net about $2200 per fortnight. Throw some allowances on top of that and you've got your answer.
$100K nets about $2800 per fortnight.
I'll collect my fee if you guys ever get into QF. It involves me never buying drinks. I like good bottles of red wine!
Australian Tax rates can be found in a number of places:
http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/co...tent/12333.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_Australia
Some quick back of the envelope maths shows that $75K will net about $2200 per fortnight. Throw some allowances on top of that and you've got your answer.
$100K nets about $2800 per fortnight.
I'll collect my fee if you guys ever get into QF. It involves me never buying drinks. I like good bottles of red wine!
Nunc est bibendum
Read this again carefully and I'll highlight the critical word!
You underestimate my desire for good red wine....and it'll be a lot more than just one bottle!
It involves me never buying drinks.
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Strewth is right...
If you were reading this thread for the first time (like I did) you'd get the worst impression of "so-called" professional people. Bl
dy hell, just give the guy an answer or don't post. I have no idea where some folks get the time to sling mud at each other. You definately have some issues if you have more free time to put someone down and defend it, rather than simply answer the question. Its EXACTLY those kinds of responses that give PPRUNE its "closed doors" reputation. What does it gain telling someone they are a prat for not using the search function? If each post had to pass a relevance test before appearing, we'd only have 2 or 3 posts in this thread.
If you've nuthin nice to say, why say it?
BP
dy hell, just give the guy an answer or don't post. I have no idea where some folks get the time to sling mud at each other. You definately have some issues if you have more free time to put someone down and defend it, rather than simply answer the question. Its EXACTLY those kinds of responses that give PPRUNE its "closed doors" reputation. What does it gain telling someone they are a prat for not using the search function? If each post had to pass a relevance test before appearing, we'd only have 2 or 3 posts in this thread.If you've nuthin nice to say, why say it?
BP
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I can search too but I tend to be a lazy searcher hardly ever do it ... anyway,
What you can read from the awards and posts is fair enough but let's face it without knowing what hours you work and what allowances you receive it's pretty hard to come up with an exact figure on all the sums. Ill just give a few points, and that is the operative word because like everything in aviation it's always changing.
1) ATM there is no opportunity to be hired as direct entry F/O or Captain at mainline QF, just as Second Officer
2) Right now you will be hired as a S/O on 747-400 or A330 fleets with A380 to come soon I am guessing.
3) Depending on what aircraft you get on will have a difference to your pay and commuting experience , suffice to say you can commute on any fleet fairly easily as an S/O
4) Staff return ticket MEL - SYD? I don't know exactly but around $120 I would say with a fair amount of accuracy give or take 5 or 10 lol
5) Training pay? Well it would be around 2-4 months but it varies. Suffice to say it is fairly low. I think it is Gross mid 20's maybe up to 30k Gross per year now, if anyone can update this would be appreciated. Either way you wont be living a champagne lifestyle unless you class passion pop as one!
6) The longer range aircraft 744 and A380 will probably have easier aspects to commuting as you can get so many hours from each trip, but the A330 isnt bad either from what I here as it operates a lot of flights out of Brisbane and Melbourne at the moment.
7) Pay? Well overtime is the key equation obviously 744 and in future A380 will have a lot more than A330. I dont think many first year S/O's would be on less than 80k these days, and possibly close to 100k for some. But pay increases each year after checking out fairly significantly. Some 5 and 6 year S/O's if they target overtime trips could be close to 130 or 140k I guess but this is just what I heard not proven.
8) Allowances? 10k-20k per year but in general most S/O's dont have any left over at end of trips lol! Mabe a little bit!
9) Promotion to F/O ? How long is a piece of string? Depends on the time and how motivated you are to move quick? I would say in the next few years quite fast if everything goes ok 2-3 years? It could be as long as 5 or 6 though it just depends what fleet you want to go to and the timing.
Anyway its my 4 cents worth, hope it answered some questions but lets face it the major challenge is getting through the process gl!
What you can read from the awards and posts is fair enough but let's face it without knowing what hours you work and what allowances you receive it's pretty hard to come up with an exact figure on all the sums. Ill just give a few points, and that is the operative word because like everything in aviation it's always changing.
1) ATM there is no opportunity to be hired as direct entry F/O or Captain at mainline QF, just as Second Officer
2) Right now you will be hired as a S/O on 747-400 or A330 fleets with A380 to come soon I am guessing.
3) Depending on what aircraft you get on will have a difference to your pay and commuting experience , suffice to say you can commute on any fleet fairly easily as an S/O
4) Staff return ticket MEL - SYD? I don't know exactly but around $120 I would say with a fair amount of accuracy give or take 5 or 10 lol
5) Training pay? Well it would be around 2-4 months but it varies. Suffice to say it is fairly low. I think it is Gross mid 20's maybe up to 30k Gross per year now, if anyone can update this would be appreciated. Either way you wont be living a champagne lifestyle unless you class passion pop as one!
6) The longer range aircraft 744 and A380 will probably have easier aspects to commuting as you can get so many hours from each trip, but the A330 isnt bad either from what I here as it operates a lot of flights out of Brisbane and Melbourne at the moment.
7) Pay? Well overtime is the key equation obviously 744 and in future A380 will have a lot more than A330. I dont think many first year S/O's would be on less than 80k these days, and possibly close to 100k for some. But pay increases each year after checking out fairly significantly. Some 5 and 6 year S/O's if they target overtime trips could be close to 130 or 140k I guess but this is just what I heard not proven.
8) Allowances? 10k-20k per year but in general most S/O's dont have any left over at end of trips lol! Mabe a little bit!
9) Promotion to F/O ? How long is a piece of string? Depends on the time and how motivated you are to move quick? I would say in the next few years quite fast if everything goes ok 2-3 years? It could be as long as 5 or 6 though it just depends what fleet you want to go to and the timing.
Anyway its my 4 cents worth, hope it answered some questions but lets face it the major challenge is getting through the process gl!
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AoA,
Nice one. Thankyou for that.
International Trader and Keg,
Thankyou as well for your advice. I would like to note a couple of points, though.
First, I am reasonably sure the Qantas interview process is done face-to-face, not via an internet forum. The reason I note this is because internet forums demonstrate how easily it is for people to get off on very much the wrong foot.
To whit, my second point. My comment about being afraid to ask questions was made in jest. It was meant to be humourous, not a statement of victimhood. Perhaps I should have added "
" to make it obvious.
Third, I reiterate, I do not currently work in GA.
Nice one. Thankyou for that.
International Trader and Keg,
Thankyou as well for your advice. I would like to note a couple of points, though.
First, I am reasonably sure the Qantas interview process is done face-to-face, not via an internet forum. The reason I note this is because internet forums demonstrate how easily it is for people to get off on very much the wrong foot.
To whit, my second point. My comment about being afraid to ask questions was made in jest. It was meant to be humourous, not a statement of victimhood. Perhaps I should have added "
" to make it obvious.Third, I reiterate, I do not currently work in GA.
SO commuting
Commuting is not a problem from ML to SYD on the A330 - however it is a bit of a pain. These are some things (although SMALL in the big scheme of things) to think about for ML-SYD commuting.
1. At the moment WITH staff travel it is $138.80 BUSINESS class (although you can and will be downgraded) and $126 ECONOMY.
2. There is some stress with commuting as you might not get a seat. This leaves you a few options - get a flight at least three or four BEFORE you REALLY need to depart, or leave the night before (STBY 0700 to 1900 means a night before departure)
3. Accommodation - depending on where you stay it will cost about $55 - 75 per night.
4. Don't check you baggage - always have carry on, this will save you time at the end.
The A330 roster is shorter than the 744 in terms of trip length, next roster sees something like this - about a week off then 5 or 6 trips all of 4 days away and all with three days at home.
As for the pay - it is about 36k for the training (3 months on the bus). Remember that if you live in MEL you will need to stay in SYD during the training - more cost. At the moment, and for the foreseeable future, part of the QF SO A330 training is being done in HK or Singapore, or KL (about 15-16 days away = about $2300 Aust in allowances)
The hourly rate for training is $34/hour min divisor of 155 hours per bid period (56 days)
The hourly rate for the first 18 months is $64/hour. This DOES NOT include allowances - very ROUGHLY about A$100 per day whilst away.
Look closely at the interview stuff in 18 months, I BELIEVE (think, heard, perhaps) that QF is now going down the psych test then an interview based on behavioral technique (ie NO tech stuff - they did really care about your tech knowledge - that is assumed by the fact that you have done ATPL and any experience you already have - you've been tested on this stuff many times in the past).
The difference in SO pay between the A330 and the 744 is about 30k per year (REMEMBER this is A GUIDE/GOUGE/GUESS/ANECDOTAL) as ALL pay depends on how much you work - overtime.
As a commuter you might want to budget about $1000 - $1200 per bid period (56 days) on commuting costs.
Let the experts correct my mistakes, but for what you were after, this should give you some rough figures to plan with.
1. At the moment WITH staff travel it is $138.80 BUSINESS class (although you can and will be downgraded) and $126 ECONOMY.
2. There is some stress with commuting as you might not get a seat. This leaves you a few options - get a flight at least three or four BEFORE you REALLY need to depart, or leave the night before (STBY 0700 to 1900 means a night before departure)
3. Accommodation - depending on where you stay it will cost about $55 - 75 per night.
4. Don't check you baggage - always have carry on, this will save you time at the end.
The A330 roster is shorter than the 744 in terms of trip length, next roster sees something like this - about a week off then 5 or 6 trips all of 4 days away and all with three days at home.
As for the pay - it is about 36k for the training (3 months on the bus). Remember that if you live in MEL you will need to stay in SYD during the training - more cost. At the moment, and for the foreseeable future, part of the QF SO A330 training is being done in HK or Singapore, or KL (about 15-16 days away = about $2300 Aust in allowances)
The hourly rate for training is $34/hour min divisor of 155 hours per bid period (56 days)
The hourly rate for the first 18 months is $64/hour. This DOES NOT include allowances - very ROUGHLY about A$100 per day whilst away.
Look closely at the interview stuff in 18 months, I BELIEVE (think, heard, perhaps) that QF is now going down the psych test then an interview based on behavioral technique (ie NO tech stuff - they did really care about your tech knowledge - that is assumed by the fact that you have done ATPL and any experience you already have - you've been tested on this stuff many times in the past).
The difference in SO pay between the A330 and the 744 is about 30k per year (REMEMBER this is A GUIDE/GOUGE/GUESS/ANECDOTAL) as ALL pay depends on how much you work - overtime.
As a commuter you might want to budget about $1000 - $1200 per bid period (56 days) on commuting costs.
Let the experts correct my mistakes, but for what you were after, this should give you some rough figures to plan with.
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Pay Scales
the ppjn site has the pay scales for FO and Capt on the whole fleet, but not the SO scales.
....is SO pay a % of the FO pay?
Also... if an SO upgrades to FO after (say) 5 years, does s/he go onto 5-year FO pay or is that only after 5 years as an FO?
Jus' wunnerin'
....is SO pay a % of the FO pay?
Also... if an SO upgrades to FO after (say) 5 years, does s/he go onto 5-year FO pay or is that only after 5 years as an FO?
Jus' wunnerin'
QFCaptain,
If you think those payscales are up to date, you need to make a call to PeopleConnect pretty damn fast.
Bendo,
Its years in the company. So if you spend 5 years as an SO on the -400 (if your brain is that dull it lets you) and then transfer to the 767 you will be on the year 5 767 FO payrate.
M
If you think those payscales are up to date, you need to make a call to PeopleConnect pretty damn fast.
Bendo,
Its years in the company. So if you spend 5 years as an SO on the -400 (if your brain is that dull it lets you) and then transfer to the 767 you will be on the year 5 767 FO payrate.
M
