Amended levels at Clearance Delivery

[Capn Bloggs]

Is it a pain in the arse with respect to FMS?

No. This intermediate level is not put into the FMS.

[ccysam]

My point is, why not just clear us to 3000 on the airways clearance. Saves a lot of winding and the potental for an incorrect setting in the busy period just before takeoff.

[Muffinman]

Starts with P - You ask "which clearance delivery gives a clearance like that?" I've received "maintain 3000" and "amended 3000" and plain 'ol "3000" from ACD at YPDN. So what's going on there?

My understanding is if being assigned a route/level other than that expected according to the flight notification ATS will prefix with "amended".

[Ivasrus]

Most civil ACD will issue "maintain x000" with initial clearance. Pretty much an international common practice. Allows TMAs to streamline departure procedures and ensure separation with other traffic in the TMA.

RAAF are a whole other group of anal retents and use the (MATS-correct) "amended x000".

SY DEP are instructed not to issue jets with a level below 5000 on initial departure. This came from a domestic 767 carrier mitigating a number of level busts. It is surprising Darwin use 3000. That's the RAAF for you.

Radio fail procedures place responsibility on the pilot to climb to lowest safe altitude.

[Ready Immediate]

Originally Posted by ccysam

My point is, why not just clear us to 3000 on the airways clearance. Saves a lot of winding and the potental for an incorrect setting in the busy period just before takeoff.

You are usually issued an airways clearance 15-20min prior to departure (sometimes even longer). The level restriction that you get with the take off clearance depends on the traffic at the time and would be different if you were departing a minute earlier or a minute later. There is no possible way to know at the time of issuing the airways clearance what traffic will be around and therefore what tracking or level restriction will be required.

RI

[Capn Bloggs]

My point is, why not just clear us to 3000 on the airways clearance. Saves a lot of winding and the potental for an incorrect setting in the busy period just before takeoff.

We rarely get a change from our "amended" level given in the airways clearance ie 6000ft. Only when there is directly conflicting traffic will the cleared level be changed just prior to takeoff.

[Greedo]

Ivasrus,

RAAF are a whole other group of anal retents and use the (MATS-correct) "amended x000".

I didn't realise there were parts of the rules that could be ignored, interesting.

It is surprising Darwin use 3000. That's the RAAF for you.

Didn't they let you in or something?

However, maybe the RTF should be 'maintain XXX' at clearance delivery, and let the tail wag the dog.

[Muffinman]

Yeh greedo I'm with you - just a bit harsh from Ivasrus.

Here's a hypothetical - if I was Doc Neeson - flying for Angel Flight and asked for an airways clearance what would I get as a reply?

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

".... and any half serious IFR single/twin has 2 VHFs/1 HF...."

That's does it Chuckles, no more flying the FTDK for you!

Might not have a HF, but its got 3 x VHFs, SatPhone, G3, and Broadband!

Dr

[Chimbu chuckles]

BUT!!!!

....pretty please?

Actually my HF only gets switched on because of the avionics master

And I think broadband trumps HF...can't post on Pprune at 10k over Moranbah on HF.

Sufficient crawling oh GREAT tamer of the FTDK?

[No Further Requirements]

As someone hinted at earlier, the 'maintain AXXX' is usually written into local instructions at each location. Melbourne is 5000ft, Canberra is 10,000ft. It has to do with lowest assignable levels by other sectors and, in some cases, the ability for the tower to to auto release instead of asking for departure instructions.

If you are that concerned with the practice, go into the centre/approach room and ask about it. There will usually be an explanation in the local instructions to justify it. ATC are quite happy to have aircrew come in and have a look, plug in and ask questions. This is how we we all get better - by asking questions and knowing (to an extent!) the job of the other person.

Cheers,

NFR.